Study - CFB team value

[307bball]

The biggest change is conference composition. The MWC leftovers have struggled with consistency just as we have. They have their challenges and we have ours.

I honestly can't believe the excuse machine is still a thing. Sheesh, if Nevada, AF, unlv, unm, utep, niu, grand canyon, uc Davis, sjsu, and hi are insurmountable, you better just put up the out of business sign and call it a day.

In football...for the last 10 years or so...that is a group of teams that we definitely are competitive with. Would you say "mission accomplished"?

 

[ragtimejoe1]

In football...for the last 10 years or so...that is a group of teams that we definitely are competitive with. Would you say "mission accomplished"?

Since that wasn't the conference then, no. We'll see in a few years which is the whole point. Why do you think we'll all of a sudden be at a major competitive disadvantage to those teams or is the excuse machine dead?

 

[307bball]

Look, we aren't recruiting against bsu, Utah, or tcu anymore. The leftovers have also struggled getting kids for their reasons. Acting like UW is extremely disadvantaged in this band of misfits is ludicrous.

No way should we struggle to find kids that can be competitive in the new MWC. Obviously if peers start to spend a lot on revenue share or NIL, that changes things.

I asked this in a response to the other thread about the "disadvantaged band of misfits"...but when you remove the results form BSU, USU, FRES, and SDSU from the last 10 years and plug in the results of the teams the MWC are adding...Wyoming looks pretty good...Would you say we have "settled to our level"?

If being competitive with that group is the goal...then we better give Burman a raise because we are already there.

**I see you already responded to the previous post....out of sync hehe**

 

[307bball]

Since that wasn't the conference then, no. We'll see in a few years which is the whole point. Why do you think we'll all of a sudden be at a major competitive disadvantage to those teams or is the excuse machine dead?

So the point is to be "competetive" in the conference you are in....I think we all agree on that. That is what keeps Craig Bohl from being considered on the level of Paul Roach and that is why you fire Joe Glenn during the days of the MWC being top heavy.

I think we are all waking up to the effect of the disadvantage that PAPoke has described so well. I would be surprised if the rankings of the group of teams that are in the future MWC changes much compared to what they would have been ranked vs each other for the past 10 years. In that ranking Wyoming is a consistent top 3 team and probably wins that conference once ....maybe twice. That is my prediction going forward. Again...if that is the goal...I think we are well positioned.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

So the point is to be "competetive" in the conference you are in....I think we all agree on that. It is what keeps Craig Bohl from being considered on the level of Paul Roach and it is why you fire Joe Glenn during the days of the MWC being top heavy.

I think we are all waking up to the effect of the disadvantage that PAPoke has described so well. I would be surprised if the rankings of the group of teams that are in the future MWC changes much compared to what they would have been ranked vs each other for the past 10 years. In that ranking Wyoming is a consistent top 3 team and probably wins that conference once ....maybe twice. That is my prediction going forward. Again...if that is the goal...I think we are well positioned.

I'm not sure what other goal there will be because I'm not sure we know for certain what our future post-season options will be in football or bball. For now, I don't think the MWC champ will be positioned for the playoff spot. The ncaa tourney is fine but nil likely means it will be increasingly difficult for mwc teams to advance very far.

This all goes back to the original point. We align pretty well with the future mwc.

 

[307bball]

I'm not sure what other goal there will be because I'm not sure we know for certain what our future post-season options will be in football or bball. For now, I don't think the MWC champ will be positioned for the playoff spot. The ncaa tourney is fine but nil likely means it will be increasingly difficult for mwc teams to advance very far.

This all goes back to the original point. We align pretty well with the future mwc.

Yeah....looking forward, we seem to agree on that. It helps to be clear on what we are talking about. The phenomena that PAPoke points out is much greater as an explanatory variable for the recent history. I'll let him speak for himself but I'm pretty sure that even he would not say it is the "only" thing that matters...and I don't want to create the impression that is my position either.

Now...just because the magnitude of that variable is less than it was in the context of the upcoming group doesn't mean that it doesn't matter or doesn't exist. As PAPoke has said.... It has to planned for and dealt with.

 

[PAPoke]

Ragtime, you're changing the narrative. Earlier in the post you said:

The way you sell Laramie is not to the players but to their parents. Small town, less distractions from education, close knit community etc. The fact is however that the player will want to go wherever they see the chance to play/start and for the most money. Wyoming can offer lots of the former but very little in the grand scheme of things when it comes to money.

My arguments here are strictly talking about the challenges of recruiting (and retaining) to UWYO. If you want to be the "best of the rest", sure, but I never took many in this board of being happy with being that.

Again, if that's the goal, I think that was lost in this conversation.

Simply put, Laramie is not an attractive landing location for difference-makers in this free-for-all-all era. I said it in a different thread, but I'm certain that many of our superstars would have left, had they had the same flexibility available to them as current athletes do now.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Ragtime, you're changing the narrative. Earlier in the post you said:


My arguments here are strictly talking about the challenges of recruiting (and retaining) to UWYO. If you want to be the "best of the rest", sure, but I never took many in this board of being happy with being that.

Again, if that's the goal, I think that was lost in this conversation.

Simply put, Laramie is not an attractive landing location for difference-makers in this free-for-all-all era. I said it in a different thread, but I'm certain that many of our superstars would have left, had they had the same flexibility available to them as current athletes do now.

Check who you're quoting

My position is that we align pretty well with the new MWC. We have challenges but so do our peers. We won't be at a competitive disadvantage in the new MWC unless teams start paying a bunch of NIL or revenue share.

 

[PAPoke]

Well, shit. I misattributed that quote to you! My apologies

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Yeah....looking forward, we seem to agree on that. It helps to be clear on what we are talking about. The phenomena that PAPoke points out is much greater as an explanatory variable for the recent history. I'll let him speak for himself but I'm pretty sure that even he would not say it is the "only" thing that matters...and I don't want to create the impression that is my position either.

Now...just because the magnitude of that variable is less than it was in the context of the upcoming group doesn't mean that it doesn't matter or doesn't exist. As PAPoke has said.... It has to planned for and dealt with.

As you pointed out, relative to the teams in the future mwc, we've seemed to have dealt with recruiting challenges well enough to be competitive.

All going back to the point you 2 took exception to: we align pretty well with the new MWC. You haven't convinced me that we don't.

 

[LanderPoke]

If your goal is major championships,you're not selling parents on Laramie. At least, not parents of the athletes who are going to be difference makers. Laramie and UWYO are not the draw people think that it is. I loved my time in the state, but it offers very little by way of anything important to what the FB/MBB athlete is looking for these days.

lol k.

 

[307bball]

As you pointed out, relative to the teams in the future mwc, we've seemed to have dealt with recruiting challenges well enough to be competitive.

All going back to the point you 2 took exception to: we align pretty well with the new MWC. You haven't convinced me that we don't.

I've made that point before many times that when measuring success, we fit with the new MWC from a results standpoint pretty well. That does not mean that I think all things are equal....the effect that PAPoke described remains in the new configuration...it's just we have other advantages among that group that even things out.

We can talk about what is coming in the future or we can talk about why things went the way they did in the past. As for the future, I think it's almost trivial to make the prediction that if BSU, SDSU, CSU, USU, and Fresno leave the conference, Wyoming will go from the middle third of that old conference to the top third of the watered down version.

Looking back, all the way to the days of TCU, Utah and BYU in the conference, if we had wanted to really compete, we should have basically had the shortest leash coaching retention philosophy ever while swinging for the fences with flashy hires. Unfortunately, the conventional wisdom was not to do that...and that philosophy seems to remain. That is why TB is a bad athletic director in my mind. All of the failings that are laid at his feet fade to static in comparison to this. I think he is making the choices he's making because they are consistently defensible and "safe". This is admin bureaucracy 101 and he's good at it.

 

[307bball]

lol k.

This response and those like it perplexes me. These athletes are already voting with their feet. Obviously some are leaving for big $$.....but some are becoming physically mature at Wyoming and then making seemingly lateral moves that don't involve a paycheck. Are they just wrong? Are they actually not feeling the effects of physical and cultural isolation, that PAPoke has described? Whatever happened to people accounting for, and respecting, individual preference and temperament?

This reminds me of political discussions in this country whenever the economy is bad...whatever guy is in charge tries to convince those who are feeling a pinch that they are actually not suffering. I guess that is a natural reaction to a problem that there is probably no solution to....just pretend it doesn't exist.

 

[PAPoke]

lol k.

Surely you have more to contribute than this. 12,088 posts and the best you can come up with is "lol k"?

This is a topic worth discussing, participate in conversation.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Looking back, all the way to the days of TCU, Utah and BYU in the conference, if we had wanted to really compete, we should have basically had the shortest leash coaching retention philosophy ever while swinging for the fences with flashy hires. Unfortunately, the conventional wisdom was not to do that...and that philosophy seems to remain. That is why TB is a bad athletic director in my mind. All of the failings that are laid at his feet fade to static in comparison to this. I think he is making the choices he's making because they are consistently defensible and "safe". This is admin bureaucracy 101 and he's good at it.

Here's a look back: throw 900k-1.2mill at Urban Meyer. We beat out Utah (400k was 1st salary) for his services completely changing the trajectory of both programs.

 

[doreno5]

Might I interject that Laramie is comparable to Missoula, Bozeman, Fargo, Pocatello, Idaho Falls, Ogden, Sioux Falls, etc. A move to the Big Sky would make sense both competitively and financially. How can others not see that?

It makes sense but sports fans do not evaluate "their" teams based on logic , it is mostly loyalty and emotional attachment. Wyoming has a hard core group of fans who will never accept stepping down.

 

[307bball]

Here's a look back: throw 900k-1.2mill at Urban Meyer. We beat out Utah (400k was 1st salary) for his services completely changing the trajectory of both programs.

Oh man....that is a crazy thought. I had to go look it up. Meyer was hired at Utah in 2003 after coaching Bowling Green for 400,00 per year base that went to around 500,000/yr with incentives. From what I can tell based on some googling...Joe Glen was hired at Wyoming in the same year for 445,000/yr with a potential of 550,000.

I know Urban Meyer was not Urban Meyer yet but was this even a possibility?

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Oh man....that is a crazy thought. I had to go look it up. Meyer was hired at Utah in 2003 after coaching Bowling Green for 400,00 per year base that went to around 500,000/yr with incentives. From what I can tell based on some googling...Joe Glen was hired at Wyoming in the same year for 445,000/yr with a potential of 550,000.

I know Urban Meyer was not Urban Meyer yet but was this even a possibility?

Didn't we interview him or ask but he turned us down for Utah? I could be remembering that wrong. If we tripled his salary offer at Utah, maybe we would have had a chance? He was pretty selective though so maybe not. He turned down bigger gigs (Mississippi i think) until Florida.

 

[LanderPoke]

Surely you have more to contribute than this. 12,088 posts and the best you can come up with is "lol k"?

This is a topic worth discussing, participate in conversation.

Your eastern bias is just very apparent

 

[laxwyo]

I’m sorry, ragtimejoe1, but this couldn’t be further from the truth in 2025. You’re not getting difference-makers to pick Laramie, Wyoming over cities like Phoenix, San Jose, Vegas, Reno, Davis, and more.

I say that as a Black dude from Philly who spent three years in Wyoming earning my master’s. I had a chance to stay for a full-time job at UWYO. I picked Omaha instead. Omaha. Because there’s just not shit to do in Laramie that’s attractive to people like me.

This isn’t about the MWC being a ‘competitive disadvantage.’ It’s about what Gen Z athletes care about: representation, nightlife, food, culture, and being seen. They’re not just picking a program, they’re picking a lifestyle.

Laramie doesn’t offer that. It’s cold, isolated, and culturally empty. Meanwhile:

• Wyoming is 1% Black.
• No major airport.
• Brutal weather.
• The Buckhorn is the premier nightlife scene.
• No barbershops for a proper fade.
• No community or cultural outlets for athletes of color.

Do you really think a kid from Atlanta, Dallas, or South Central is picking that over Vegas? Phoenix? San Jose?

Across football and basketball, well over 60% of NCAA athletes are non-white—likely closer to 75% when you account for everyone who’s not white. And if you think you’re gonna win anything meaningful in 2025 with a roster full of white kids from the Midwest, I’ve got bad news for you.

UNLV is in Vegas, where players can train, live, and market themselves like pros. Phoenix is booming with cultural energy. San Jose has Bay Area clout, diversity, and real NIL upside. Even Reno and Albuquerque have more to offer than Laramie.

Laramie is a cultural dead zone. It’s not just about facilities or conference realignment. It’s about the environment. And if you can’t recruit to where you live, you’re not competing—no matter what the conference says on paper.

If we went back to College kids playing college sports, we'd definitely win championships with roster full of kids from the midwest. The issue is the sports are being played by a lot of athletes that have no real business being in college nor do they want to attend college. The issue is college has been removed from college sports. We all know its a professional sports league now and without a professional sports governing body, it's going to be crazy. Do we really think Buffalo would be a destination for professional athletes if it wasn't put in a league with rules to promote parity? You are totally correct, Laramie does kind of suck. I don't even like it and I'm from Wyoming.