Josh Smith

[SLCPoke]

It really sucks that Josh got his scholly pulled, but I'm not going to pretend to know what happened to make them choose not to renew him. I am, however, going to refer to this thread heavily throughout the season. If we're doing poorly, people will bitch about the quality of athletes we have in the program, DC's coaching acumen, and the general way in which the program is run. If we're doing well, it's going to be all sunshine and rainbows, with praise being showered down on how well the program turned a corner after a tough season. I guarantee that a few of you that are bitching about DC's crappy coaching practice in this instance will be kissing his ass in the good times.

+10

 

[WyoAlum1987]

Your proposition has two flaws:
1) You think we will have a winning season. We won't. Our O-line didnt get fixed. We were 179th in the nation in rushing. Our O is one dimensional and not tough to scheme against. Our defense was also among the worst in the nation.

2) Dont get me wrong, I hope DC and the Pokes go out and amaze the world. I'll cheer for the Pokes regardless of how skewballed I think the program is. But you dont know me from Adam if you think that changes my perception of right and wrong. DC is wrong. Even if we DO have a winning season (and I hope we do-but dont think we will) the ends dont justify the means for me. This was a dick move. Burman lying was a dick move. Cursing at the USAFA coach on Armed Forces day was a dick move.
Just did the Math, DC probably won't quite have as bad a W/L % as Glenn-by a couple hundredths of a percent.
You want to refer to this post? Put me down for a 4-8 season. After that we will finally turn a corner and end the DC (if not Burman) era.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

But that is saying Josh Smith wasn't living up to the requirement.
He was.
He simply got screwed over for a better player.

I hear you, but I don't think you're hearing me. Doing all of the right things and being a blue collar worker isn't the same thing as meeting a certain athletic standard. I can bust my ass all I want, I'm still not going to run a 4.3 forty.

Rudy Ruettiger did all the right things, but he still wasn't very good, and he was never on scholarship.

Definitely not saying this is right , but I see both sides to this.

 

[BeaverPoke]

But that is saying Josh Smith wasn't living up to the requirement.
He was.
He simply got screwed over for a better player.

I hear you, but I don't think you're hearing me. Doing all of the right things and being a blue collar worker isn't the same thing as meeting a certain athletic standard. I can bust my ass all I want, I'm still not going to run a 4.3 forty.

Rudy Ruettiger did all the right things, but he still wasn't very good, and he was never on scholarship.

Definitely not saying this is right , but I see both sides to this.

Yeah but how many MWC players are running 4.3s?
The MWC is so watered down, and at Wyo too.
I've known a lot of Wyo players since I've been in Laramie, including Josh, as we hung out a lot freshman year, and he is just as athletic, and strong, and fast as a lot of current Wyo players.
If he pulled Joshs scholly, then he better pull everyone on the O-line, and Colby Kirkgaurd.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

It really sucks that Josh got his scholly pulled, but I'm not going to pretend to know what happened to make them choose not to renew him. I am, however, going to refer to this thread heavily throughout the season. If we're doing poorly, people will bitch about the quality of athletes we have in the program, DC's coaching acumen, and the general way in which the program is run. If we're doing well, it's going to be all sunshine and rainbows, with praise being showered down on how well the program turned a corner after a tough season. I guarantee that a few of you that are bitching about DC's crappy coaching practice in this instance will be kissing his ass in the good times.

100% disagree in reference to me

Wins are not worth sacrificing integrity. Sorry, not how I was raised. I also could give a rat's ass that other programs pull schollies for players. IMO, when we make a commitment and a kid upholds his end of the bargain (i.e. attending practice and workouts, being on time, working hard, maintaining the necessary grades, etc..), then we for damn sure better uphold our end of the bargain. There was a time when your word or a handshake meant something. I still believe that is still a major part of the Wyoming culture.

Of course I am going to root for the Cowboys and I think we will improve upon last season; however, that doesn't mean I condone or accept the way DC handles himself and the program.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

But that is saying Josh Smith wasn't living up to the requirement.
He was.
He simply got screwed over for a better player.

I hear you, but I don't think you're hearing me. Doing all of the right things and being a blue collar worker isn't the same thing as meeting a certain athletic standard. I can bust my ass all I want, I'm still not going to run a 4.3 forty.

Rudy Ruettiger did all the right things, but he still wasn't very good, and he was never on scholarship.

Definitely not saying this is right , but I see both sides to this.

You nor Rudy were offered a scholarship. Argument fails.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

An athletic scholarship isn't a multi-year commitment. Your argument fails.

 

[YankPoke]

Athletic scholarships are given on a year to year basis, and part of the agreement is that the player will be producing up to standards in order to receive the scholarship the next year. It is just the same as an academic scholarship that if you do not do good enough that it will not be awarded that next year. Josh Smith may have done everything right, but with the talent that has come in he did not produce enough athletically in order to receive his scholarship for next year. I have no problem with the scholly being pulled, I feel very bad for him but he did not produce enough for him to keep his scholly and DC has a perfect right to take it away and did nothing wrong by doing that.

 

[Bryoming]

100% disagree in reference to me

Wins are not worth sacrificing integrity. Sorry, not how I was raised. I also could give a rat's ass that other programs pull schollies for players. IMO, when we make a commitment and a kid upholds his end of the bargain (i.e. attending practice and workouts, being on time, working hard, maintaining the necessary grades, etc..), then we for damn sure better uphold our end of the bargain. There was a time when your word or a handshake meant something. I still believe that is still a major part of the Wyoming culture.

I completely agree with you on the integrity thing. I live my life by "my word is my bond", and I would like to think that I would still be that way as a head coach of an FBS level program. However, if having too much integrity will cost you your job (as in honoring commitments that will bite you in the ass), then would you do your best to save your job and be the best in your profession? I would like to think that I would, but I'm not putting millions of dollars of my own money on the line.

All that probably means is that I'm probably not FBS head coach material from a personality standpoint.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

I found this interesting, in 2011, the NCAA mandated that schools could once again offer multiyear scholarships, they weren't even allowed to offer them since 1973 --- nearly all MWC schools offer 0-3 of these per year. But Fresno State offers 316 (more than Big 10, Big 12, WAC, MWC combined). Every single athlete in their program gets multiyear schollies.

 

[TSpoke]

I found this interesting, in 2011, the NCAA mandated that schools could once again offer multiyear scholarships, they weren't even allowed to offer them since 1973 --- nearly all MWC schools offer 0-3 of these per year. But Fresno State offers 316 (more than Big 10, Big 12, WAC, MWC combined). Every single athlete in their program gets multiyear schollies.

Thats cool. I knew that schools can offer 4 year scholarships and you have started to see some football schools go that way. I would love for UW to go that way but as it stands now we offer year by year scholarships and if the coaches decide to take advantage then thats their choice. It sucks for Josh but its not like this has become an epidemic. This is the first time that I know of of this happening(or maybe its been kept quiet other times, including other coaches in the past that may have done it). I don't like it happening but since I don't know the whole story and its the first time its happened I won't pass judgement.

I also seem ot recall some people calling for shyatt to pull Matt sellers scholly so we could get granberry and muhammed.

 

[Bryoming]

I also seem ot recall some people calling for shyatt to pull Matt sellers scholly so we could get granberry and muhammed.

Yep. LOTS of support for that one. Easy to justify in one case, messed up in another. I think we can all agree that this is a tough issue.

 

[cowboyz]

http://www.slate.com/articles/sport...be_yanked_after_one_year_for_any_reason_.html

I hear you loud and clear. If we hire a coach from a BCS conference, we're going to get a BCS mentality (win at all cost). I'm not making excuses for anyone, it's a morally shitty thing to do.

NCAA football is about as moral as politics and organized crime. Your issue isn't with Dave Christensen, it's with the entire culture of college sports.

The article gave me something to think about that I don't have an answer for: a college can take away an academic scholarship on a student who doesn't live up to a certain GPA standard. Is there a legit comparison to an athletic scholarship of the athlete who doesn't live up to a certain athletic standard?

There isn't really a good comparison. An academic scholarship is usually tied to a finite objective, "hit this GPA and it renews, don't hit it and it doesn't". And by the way, the GPA needed to hit an academic scholarship is usually not so high. An athletic scholarship is tied to effort, commitment and GPA. Remember, an athlete loses a scholarship for a low GPA as well, not just students with academic scholarships. Apparently an athletic scholarship for the Wyoming Cowboys is a moving target. Unlike a kid who was stellar in high school and gets either an athletic or academic scholarship, shows up at college and doesn't really perform on the field or in the classroom, but still holds on to their scholarship, Josh came in and earned it. He wasn't a high school kid they were taking a chance on. They knew what they had. Was this just a PR move at the time from DC to deflect whatever stupid fucking thing he was doing at the time? Maybe, but it really affected someone's life. Also, a kid that lost an academic scholarship can simply enroll at another comparable university and continue on with his math, science, or whatever his passion is. A football player is screwed. First they have to re-sell themselves to a coach, and in this instance, at pretty late notice. And if they want to continue at a comparable program (FBS) they have to sit out a year and in Josh's case that means lose a year because he already red-shirted. At Wyoming he'd have 3 years of playing left, if he moves on he only has two.

I agree with all of you that said a handshake or a mans word is all you need, me too. Hell, Josh is ahead of Trent Sewell on Dave Christensen's most recent depth chart. Is he pulling Trent's scholarship also? If everything about the program is performance based, what is our coach still doing here? Glenn got fired for the same results. He doesn't even fire bad assistants, they just leave for whatever reason or opportunity.

And sorry, I don't agree with wyo1016 and the other's that say with a winning season we will all be kissing his ass. That was in 2009 when we thought we had something here. All he's done since then is prove what a total incompentent tool he is, that embarrasses the university. Does he think any of this through? Does he think? About anyone's comments regarding the SEC doing stuff like this all the time. Is that what you want? If this is our version of keeping up with the SEC we're really bad at it. Fucking over players isn't the "only" SEC way, they also pay players indirectly, look the other way when there are problems with players and coaches, unless they get caught! The SEC also hires top coaches and dumps tons of cash into their sports programs, we do not and will never. Maybe Christensen can photoshop a new poster with a headline "we screwed a player, watch out Alabama!".

With any luck we don't go 6-6 and make a bowl game. Either we go 2-10 and he gets fired so he can go back to Missouri or Toledo or any shithole that'll take him, or we go 10-2 and he leaves on his own to a different school to save their program. What keeps my faith going is that I know he will soon be gone. One way or another.

 

[BeaverPoke]

Lol what a rant.

Funny that you call Mizzou a shithole. Hello...have you been to Laramie?
DC is not a bad coach, he knows how to run an offense, and get QBs to play for him.

I just don't like that he pulled the scholly of one of my friends.
I hope he wins this season, then wins more next season, and continues winning and winning.
I don't want a shit season so he gets fired then we have to start all over.
I want a great season, but don't want the guy who takes us there to get fired.

 

[WYCowboy]

There are pros & cons to both sides of this argument. I just feel like I would have called Josh into my office and explained to him that he would probably not get the chance to get PT if he wanted to stay at UW and give the reasons why. This would also give Josh the opportunity to transfer on his own to a school where he could get more PT. Maybe he did this - I don't know.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

I also seem ot recall some people calling for shyatt to pull Matt sellers scholly so we could get granberry and muhammed.

Yep. LOTS of support for that one. Easy to justify in one case, messed up in another. I think we can all agree that this is a tough issue.

Great point.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

I also seem ot recall some people calling for shyatt to pull Matt sellers scholly so we could get granberry and muhammed.

Yep. LOTS of support for that one. Easy to justify in one case, messed up in another. I think we can all agree that this is a tough issue.

Great point.

Thankfully Shyatt has WAY WAY more class than DC.

And the year to year scholarship renewal argument is bullshit too. How many recruits does our football program sell on "a 1-yr scholarship with the opportunity to renew if we think you are good enough" vs "come here and you will have a football scholarship of 4 to 5 years"?

I have had a similar experience with a school on the academic side. My first year of law school I went to a University that gave out about 40 full scholarships as long as the student maintained a 3.3. This was a way for the law school to attract students with high LSAT scores in order to increase its USNEWS law school ranking. The school didnt release its grade distribution and sold quite a few students on the scholarship and in fact seemed to suggest that all students receiving the scholarship would likely have it for 3 years as long as they maintained a decent GPA. Well, the grade distribution was such that a 3.3 would put you in roughly the top 15 out of 250. Long story short, the school irritated quite a few students and many transferred out after the first year. I actually maintained my scholarship but was so disgusted with the deceptive practice that I transferred to Wyoming. Best decision I ever made. I was told that the former University has rightfully since stopped the practice.

Long story short, honesty and integrity. Ends don't justify the means.

 

[cowboyz]

Lol what a rant.

Funny that you call Mizzou a shithole. Hello...have you been to Laramie?
DC is not a bad coach, he knows how to run an offense, and get QBs to play for him.

I just don't like that he pulled the scholly of one of my friends.
I hope he wins this season, then wins more next season, and continues winning and winning.
I don't want a shit season so he gets fired then we have to start all over.
I want a great season, but don't want the guy who takes us there to get fired.

I do rant many times when I post. You like to post loads of times, I like to do it less often, with longer posts, or rants lol...

A few things.

Of course I've been to Laramie and continue to return every fall, but I am not comparing Laramie to the state of Missouri. If I was comparing, I would be comparing the University of Wyoming to to the University of Missouri, at which point I would probably still prefer the University of Wyoming. I've never been to the University of Missouri, and the only time I see their team is when they are playing at a bowl game, and I also see our Head Coach on their sidelines, WTF. But I wasn't comparing them at all. I said that he could go back to Missouri or Toledo (as he's coached there in the past) or any shithole. Meaning the two places I mention by name or any shithole. I didn't say he could go back to the shithole Missouri. I guess you just missed that. I am not saying Missouri isn't a shithole, maybe it is, I don't know.

You say DC is not a bad coach. Well, if you mean an assistant coach or an offensive coordinator, then most will agree with you. For our team, he doesn't have those roles. For our team he is a Head Coach, and in that role he is bad, based on results. For our team he doesn't know how to run an offense. Yes, we all know what was accomplished at Missouri, but guess what, he didn't bring it here. Our offense actually kind of sucks, if you use a little data point called scoring points!

I agree that he can get QBs to play for him. His problem seems to be holding on to them. I don't know if you've been following the program since his arrival, but we seem to lose most of our QBs after a year or two. Shit, if Brett's under center
this fall, he'll be in line for a gold watch.

I didn't say he'd be fired if he started winning. I'd say he'd leave. He's had one foot out the door since the second day he arrived. So if I had to choose why he leaves, I suppose I'd rather it's because we have a winning season and he takes off when his stock appears high to some other sucker school. That would sort of be like having our cake and eating it to.

Lastly, if Josh was my friend, I'd be more pissed off then you seem to be. I don't know Josh but I hate how his situation was
handled. I feel bad for Josh and I feel bad for the way this reflects upon our program. Can you look someone in the eye and say you are proud of our coach, I can't? And maybe that's MY problem. I don't just support and cheer for the team in the brown and gold uniform. I support and cheer the players, the university, the state, and yes, the coaches. He's just a really hard guy to get behind.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

And the year to year scholarship renewal argument is bullshit too. How many recruits does our football program sell on "a 1-yr scholarship with the opportunity to renew if we think you are good enough" vs "come here and you will have a football scholarship of 4 to 5 years"?

I have had a similar experience with a school on the academic side. My first year of law school I went to a University that gave out about 40 full scholarships as long as the student maintained a 3.3. This was a way for the law school to attract students with high LSAT scores in order to increase its USNEWS law school ranking. The school didnt release its grade distribution and sold quite a few students on the scholarship and in fact seemed to suggest that all students receiving the scholarship would likely have it for 3 years as long as they maintained a decent GPA. Well, the grade distribution was such that a 3.3 would put you in roughly the top 15 out of 250. Long story short, the school irritated quite a few students and many transferred out after the first year. I actually maintained my scholarship but was so disgusted with the deceptive practice that I transferred to Wyoming. Best decision I ever made. I was told that the former University has rightfully since stopped the practice.

Long story short, honesty and integrity. Ends don't justify the means.

and there it is, the point I've been making this entire thread. It's wrong, I agree. It's immoral to the core. I've said that from the beginning.

Point I've been making is that it happens everrrrrrywhere in the college football world (and apparently academic, too). The more successful the program, the more likely it is to happen (Alabama, Oregon, etc). Fresno is a random, weird exception and what I learned about them today has made me automatically respect them more. The fact that the myth of a 100% "full ride scholarship" existed for almost 40 years amazes me. I never knew that until today.

It stinks to high heaven, yes it does. Replace DC and there's an 85-90% (made up stat) chance his replacement does the same at some point. I have no facts to back it up, but it is my guess that this isn't the first time it's ever happened in our program in the last few decades. It's probably happened to plenty of guys that we never even knew were on our roster.

 

[kansasCowboy]

This is almost laughable. Guys. First off, Nothing posted on facebook or any article will ever get the full details. Us viewwers will always be on the outside looking in, no matter what we are told. We have no first hand accounts of the conversation between coaches and DC, or conversations between Smith and DC.
When I coached I would hear the rumors around town of why I pulled a player from a game or why a star player didn't play as much as apparently the local fans thought he should have. It's funny when people speculate, it's also dangerous. It creates rifts that should not be there between fans and fans and the coach. No body knew why I had our play star player only play a quarter. All they knew to think was," This in know way makes sense. We have the best RB in the state and he's on the sideline next to the coach for the remainder of the game." The thing that apparently thousands in the stands (including officials on the field did not see), but the ol' ball coach (Me) did see, was our "star" RB get up from a tackle and stomp on the neck of a defender. Yeah, I could of let him play the rest of the game. But no matter how many boo's I got for making the call, I'd do it again.
Point, we still do not know first hand the reason for this, stop bashing the coach for something you know nothing about.