CSU and Wyoming in Separate Conferences

[TheRealUW]

Is UTEP and NMSU really better in any way than the Montana and Dakota schools?

MrTitleist, do you know if Montana and Montana State have the finances to compete at the FBS level of football?

Personally, I would love to have those two schools in the same conference as Wyoming but always assumed athletic budgets must have been the main factor keeping them in different divisions of football.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

If you look back, and if I remember correctly, the wac pulled bsu, NV, usu, and maybe idaho from fcs and la tech was indy-- I don't remember what level? I don't remember where nmsu was when they added them.

Bsu, NV, and la tech in combo with Fresno made that a decent conference before the project.

I'd honestly be more worried about some of fcs options surpassing WYO than not being able to keep up.

 

[McPeachy]

MrTitleist, do you know if Montana and Montana State have the finances to compete at the FBS level of football?

Personally, I would love to have those two schools in the same conference as Wyoming but always assumed athletic budgets must have been the main factor keeping them in different divisions of football.

Great question, I have been told (by others) that they are satisfied with their conference, rivalries, and the FCS playoff format - so it wouldn't make sense to try to move up.

 

[MrTitleist]

MrTitleist, do you know if Montana and Montana State have the finances to compete at the FBS level of football?

Personally, I would love to have those two schools in the same conference as Wyoming but always assumed athletic budgets must have been the main factor keeping them in different divisions of football.

I think it's complicated. Both schools would have to add a sport.. Montana a women's sport, MSU a men's sport (IIRC). Both would have to increase scholarships for football. I think the Montana BOR is somewhat resistant to increasing the athletic budget (both schools would also have to increase athletic fees). I think there's also a lot of complacency at both schools thinking that FCS is just fine for them.. when in reality, there are no good FCS schools left except in the Big Sky and Missouri Valley. That's why they're regulars in the FCS title games. I would assume for UM and MSU to move up the Mountain West (or whomever) would need to kick in money to both schools to offset that initial budget hit.

I saw a list yesterday or the day before of the subsidies that the MT and Dakota schools yet.. kind of interesting

https://twitter.com/x/status/1834253970736382405

I would assume those numbers would have to increase if a move-up occurred.

 

[TheRealUW]

I think it's complicated. Both schools would have to add a sport.. Montana a women's sport, MSU a men's sport (IIRC). Both would have to increase scholarships for football. I think the Montana BOR is somewhat resistant to increasing the athletic budget (both schools would also have to increase athletic fees). I think there's also a lot of complacency at both schools thinking that FCS is just fine for them.. when in reality, there are no good FCS schools left except in the Big Sky and Missouri Valley. That's why they're regulars in the FCS title games. I would assume for UM and MSU to move up the Mountain West (or whomever) would need to kick in money to both schools to offset that initial budget hit.

I saw a list yesterday or the day before of the subsidies that the MT and Dakota schools yet.. kind of interesting

https://twitter.com/x/status/1834253970736382405

I would assume those numbers would have to increase if a move-up occurred.

Appreciate your input.

Sounds like there are a lot of things that would have to align for those programs to make the jump up to FBS. I would imagine those sorts of things take years to iron out.

Best case scenario may be that the FBS/FCS distinction dissolves in favor of the "power teams" and "everybody else" distinction.

 

[bladerunnr]

Northern Colorado is in the Big Sky. Joe Glenn coached there. Jeff Linder coached there. The seating capacity for the football stadium is 8,500. The seating capacity for the BB arena is under 3k. FCS is an entirely different world than FBS, especially for football. I won't be going to many games to watch a steady diet of South Dakota states and Montana states.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

Northern Colorado is in the Big Sky. Joe Glenn coached there. Jeff Linder coached there. The seating capacity for the football stadium is 8,500. The seating capacity for the BB arena is under 3k. FCS is an entirely different world than FBS, especially for football. I won't be going to many games to watch a steady diet of South Dakota states and Montana states.

Northern Colorado’s program and support is not comparable to the South Dakota States and Montana States. Thats like equating Vanderbilt to Alabama simply because they are in the same conference.

 

[TXPoke]

Northern Colorado is in the Big Sky. Joe Glenn coached there. Jeff Linder coached there. The seating capacity for the football stadium is 8,500. The seating capacity for the BB arena is under 3k. FCS is an entirely different world than FBS, especially for football. I won't be going to many games to watch a steady diet of South Dakota states and Montana states.

All factually correct. The High School (North of San Antonio) my son will be going to has a similar size campus, nicer stadium, and smells better than UNC. Pulling up the FCS makes no sense. They have money to get good schools in Texas that win more than CSU and SDSU. It needs to be spent, and bring them into the MWC. San Marcos, El Paso, and San Antonio bring more viewers than all those schools combined. If anyone saw last night's game, Texas State is ON THE RISE. I hope Gloria is practicing her border slang, she needs to pull a rabbit out of a hat for this one.

 

[Itsux2beaewe]

I’ve seen some thoughts on other social media platforms, that the PAC2 picked the 1st 4 of the MW teams with the intent to pursue others and avoid the exit fees with dissolution of the conference.

What are others thoughts?

 

[TXPoke]

Northern Colorado’s program and support is not comparable to the South Dakota States and Montana States. Thats like equating Vanderbilt to Alabama simply because they are in the same conference.

How about Colorado School of Mines? Similar size endowment to Montana and larger than Montana State, similar size campus to both schools, similar success in football as both schools. Why is this an argument other than regionalization?

 

[sandiegopoke]

I’ve seen some thoughts on other social media platforms, that the PAC2 picked the 1st 4 of the MW teams with the intent to pursue others and avoid the exit fees with dissolution of the conference.

What are others thoughts?

They've lost their voting rights, but are members for 2 more years. Cannot achieve the 9 votes required to dissolve the conference, although if the 8 remaining are unanimous, it likely can happen and a reverse-merger would still happen.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

I’ve seen some thoughts on other social media platforms, that the PAC2 picked the 1st 4 of the MW teams with the intent to pursue others and avoid the exit fees with dissolution of the conference.

What are others thoughts?

Take 4 and pay their exit fees. Assume leverage in the situation.

Invite 2 to 4 more from wherever and pay no exit fees for them. Reduced media shares for this group, etc.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

How about Colorado School of Mines? Similar size endowment to Montana and larger than Montana State, similar size campus to both schools, similar success in football as both schools. Why is this an argument other than regionalization?

Colorado School of Mines is Division 2. They don’t have the facilities or sports programs to move to FBS. While the alumni is pleased with the recent athletic success, the endowment has nothing to do with athletic programs. There is not a single FBS school with the academic requirements of all students that Mines has. Quite simply - without major changes to structure, facilities and even curriculum, they have no ability to move to Division 1 let alone FBS.

 

[TXPoke]

Colorado School of Mines is Division 2. They don’t have the facilities or sports programs to move to FBS. While the alumni is pleased with the recent athletic success, the endowment has nothing to do with athletic programs. There is not a single FBS school with the academic requirements of all students that Mines has. Quite simply - without major changes to structure, facilities and even curriculum, they have no ability to move to Division 1 let alone FBS.

So it ludacris to think making jumps to a higher level when playing lower competition is going to be a good idea? The FCS has been gutted to the point where only 6-7 schools are competitive with one another for a "National Championship." The FCS ideas should be removed other than NDSU, but who the hell wants to go to Fargo in November/December?

 

[OrediggerPoke]

So it ludacris to think making jumps to a higher level when playing lower competition is going to be a good idea? The FCS has been gutted to the point where only 6-7 schools are competitive with one another for a "National Championship." The FCS ideas should be removed other than NDSU, but who the hell wants to go to Fargo in November/December?

At least Fargo has a dome. I’d say there’s more concern coming to Laramie in November/December.

 

[MrTitleist]

So it ludacris to think making jumps to a higher level when playing lower competition is going to be a good idea? The FCS has been gutted to the point where only 6-7 schools are competitive with one another for a "National Championship." The FCS ideas should be removed other than NDSU, but who the hell wants to go to Fargo in November/December?

Wyoming isn't tough enough to play in Missoula or Bozeman in November?

 

[TXPoke]

Wyoming isn't tough enough to play in Missoula or Bozeman in November?

Not making that point at all. NDSU has sports that are ready and competing in Division 1 already (wrestling, baseball, etc.). Those are also important as this moves along, and is the only reason I believe they would be the only lucrative school in the FCS potential. I don't think it is wise to pull FCS up at all, there is an awful lot that can be done with $100MM+ to incentivize or lure schools that could assist in the TV viewership and competitive nature of other sports other than FB. This doesn't have to be regional, and if they look at a region, I think it has to be south...not North.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

Not making that point at all. NDSU has sports that are ready and competing in Division 1 already (wrestling, baseball, etc.). Those are also important as this moves along, and is the only reason I believe they would be the only lucrative school in the FCS potential. I don't think it is wise to pull FCS up at all, there is an awful lot that can be done with $100MM+ to incentivize or lure schools that could assist in the TV viewership and competitive nature of other sports other than FB. This doesn't have to be regional, and if they look at a region, I think it has to be south...not North.

I’m not following. Every FCS school has sports that are already competing in Division 1. FCS is Division 1!! It’s only in football where Division 1 is further subdivided.

The MWC will have to add at least 4 schools when all is said and done. There are only a few current FBS schools that would even come to this conference given its future makeup. Bringing up FCS teams is going to become a necessity of survival.

We are entering a future where the MWC is now the lowest rung of FBS football. Less media value than the MAC. Beggars can’t be choosers. This is the new reality. And it happened on Burman’s watch with what does not appear to be a plan in place at all.

 

[DamThatRiver22]

Regarding Montana and Montana State, I've spoken to numerous fans that don't believe they have the finances to make the jump, all other things aside.

Also, no one in Fargo is interested in moving up from where they're at. Same with NoDak, SD(ak)SU, etc.

Also, keep in mind Burman at least (if not others) doesn't want to spend our incoming war chest on getting good schools. He literally said he wants the remaining MWC schools to pocket most of it.

I don't know what the hell he actually expects to do; you can't have your cake and eat it, too.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Regarding Montana and Montana State, I've spoken to numerous fans that don't believe they have the finances to make the jump, all other things aside.

Also, no one in Fargo is interested in moving up from where they're at. Same with NoDak, SD(ak)SU, etc.

Also, keep in mind Burman at least (if not others) doesn't want to spend our incoming war chest on getting good schools. He literally said he wants the remaining MWC schools to pocket most of it.

I don't know what the hell he actually expects to do; you can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Now that's official, I guess fcs is out.