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BYU is an Independent, rest of sports in WCC
- Thread starter AfiPoke
- Start date
allcoug said:
Okay, let me get this straight. You want to pretend that BYU is a cowboy. Does this mean your players play for us? Or do we have to switch so that we're cougars? Do the Utes have to play for Boise State for this scenario to work. Can you change it to BYU being a driver and Utah being a Fed Ex truck? It would help clear things up.
Ok. Now that we all got our cheap shots in, it would be great to have a cordial debate on BYU leaving the MWC. Anyone interested? I'll start.
To be honest leaving the MWC would not have been the first choice of BYU fans. But there are just a few issues that just had to be resolved. The main reasons are TV access, the ability to earn more revenue and access to the BCS bowl system.
With Utah leaving the MWC took a big hit in BCS qualification (which, by the way, we've had a long standing gentlemans agreement that we would stay together. They obviously decided the move to the PAC 10 was worth breaking this agreement, which I don't begrudge). And we no longer had a strong partner in the conference (Utah fans are the only ones who see our move as positive - just take a look at the different team forums). BYU and ESPN have known for years that we have valuable football program. The money we made from the Mountain was a fraction of what we actually pulled in for the conference. I have no doubt that BYU's first choice would have been to get some TV concessions from the conference and Comcast. And that was shut down.
So what does BYU do? The PAC 10 would never accept us because of our religious affiliation. The Big 12 may be on option down the road, but there are no guarantees. The only choice we really have at this point is to either join a conference that will allow us to establish our own TV relationships and, as a result, keep more of the money we earn. BYU will make a lot more money and fans around the world will now have access to the football games. The biggest risk with independence is what will access to the BCS bowls look like. Currently, any member of the MWC has to go undefeated to get into the BCS bowl games. If we go undefeated as an independent I find it hard to believe that they can keep us out.
It's a great day for BYU fans. We hold no ill will for MWC teams. Seriously.
To be honest leaving the MWC would not have been the first choice of BYU fans. But there are just a few issues that just had to be resolved. The main reasons are TV access, the ability to earn more revenue and access to the BCS bowl system.
With Utah leaving the MWC took a big hit in BCS qualification (which, by the way, we've had a long standing gentlemans agreement that we would stay together. They obviously decided the move to the PAC 10 was worth breaking this agreement, which I don't begrudge). And we no longer had a strong partner in the conference (Utah fans are the only ones who see our move as positive - just take a look at the different team forums). BYU and ESPN have known for years that we have valuable football program. The money we made from the Mountain was a fraction of what we actually pulled in for the conference. I have no doubt that BYU's first choice would have been to get some TV concessions from the conference and Comcast. And that was shut down.
So what does BYU do? The PAC 10 would never accept us because of our religious affiliation. The Big 12 may be on option down the road, but there are no guarantees. The only choice we really have at this point is to either join a conference that will allow us to establish our own TV relationships and, as a result, keep more of the money we earn. BYU will make a lot more money and fans around the world will now have access to the football games. The biggest risk with independence is what will access to the BCS bowls look like. Currently, any member of the MWC has to go undefeated to get into the BCS bowl games. If we go undefeated as an independent I find it hard to believe that they can keep us out.
It's a great day for BYU fans. We hold no ill will for MWC teams. Seriously.
BYU and the white horse they rode in on! :tickedoff:
Asmodeanreborn
Well-known member
allcoug said:
Here's the question: will you really make a lot more money? Like somebody else already brought up - the Fresno State - CSU bowl game a couple of years ago had better ratings than BYU's bowl game. You can say you've pulled the load for the conference, but in all fairness, I think that distinction should be reserved for Utah, and possibly TCU, as they've actually made it to BCS bowls before.
Yes, BYU draws big crowds and travels reasonably well, but I'd rather have a passionate crowd of 20,000 than a crowd of 45,000 where 2/3 are there because they feel obligated to, or because "it's the place to be." Sure the 45,000 crowd generates a lot more money, and that's obviously great for the program, buuut... I don't know. If you've ever been to big games out east, you know what I'm talking about. Heck, go to a hockey game in Montreal (or Buffalo, when Habs are visiting)... it's awesome, even when you're not a fan of either team.
I really don't see what's wrong about having to go undefeated to get into a BCS bowl game either. We don't compare favorably to the SEC. A 12-1 Florida has played a MUCH rougher schedule than an 11-1 Utah, BYU, or TCU. Even as the biggest homer ever, I have to acknowledge that.
allcoug said:
Wrong. The PAC-10 wouldn't invite BYU because their academics aren't up to snuff. This topic was covered ad nauseum when Utah left. I'm sure BYU's religious affiliation didn't help, but it's not the main reason.
allcoug said:
Wrong again. The Big 12 won't ever be an option for BYU, as much as you might like to think it is. When the Big 12 dissolves - as we all know it probably will eventually - Texas will end up in the Pac-10, probably taking A&M and Tech with them. Oklahoma and Ok st would like to go with Texas, but will probably end up in the SEC or the Big 10, and the Kansas and Iowa schools will be looking for a home without enough pull to bring in new teams.
Look, here's the bottom line for me. BYU got upset that Utah got called up and left them in the lurch. They played the "I'm taking my ball and going home" card, and the Mountain West gave them the finger. Now, BYU is stuck in a lowly basketball conference and will struggle to schedule the big boys in football. And I don't think the ESPN deal will be as lucrative as you all think it will. It wasn't that lucrative for the conference BYU was part of - which was why BYU pushed for the creation of the Mtn by the way - why would it be for BYU alone? Have fun playing a bunch of middle of the week late games. But I suppose the faithful will stay up until all hours to watch on BYU TV anyway, right?
The MWC will be fine with the addition of Fresno and Nevada, and I hope Houston and SMU or Rice. And now we don't have to deal with the holier-than-thou attitude that comes from nearly everyone affiliated with BYU. It may take a little longer to get where we want to be, but I think it's a fair trade.
GO POKES!
Asmodeanreborn said:
Yes. Significantly more. And it really isn't much of a question. All MWC teams earn about 1.2m from The Mtn TV contract - and we aren't allowed to rebroadcast our games. With an independent contract with ESPN we will easily make apprx. 4m per year just from them. When you tack on games that we will broadcast on our own network, BYUTV, we could get up to 5 or 6m in the first year alone. If you compare this to Notre Dames TV contract (I'm not comparing BYU to Notre Dame but here's an interesting interview from the ESPN Senior Vice President of College Sports Programming http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/08/q_a_with_espn_analyst_mike_bur.html) they earn about 9m per year. The SEC teams are pulling in about 12 to 14m per team. And Texas is expected to make 18m in a few years (assuming their own network works out - they have already toured our new media facilities). We will make a lot of money. And folks can make fun of BYUTV, but it is what it is: the best HD media facility west of the Mississippi. And the channel is already in 50m homes.
As far as the bowl ratings, we've been forced to play in the LV Bowl every year because the MWC hasn't been able to get any better tie ins. The LV Bowl is one of the first bowl games of the year. They play it around Dec. 20th. I've been to several different bowl games and the LV bowl has to be one of the worst ones out there. The stadium is small, it's in a crappy destination city, and it's played way too early in the season.
No doubt BYU will have offers to play in other bowl games as an independent. Not great ones, but hopefully games closer to Jan 1.
Asmodeanreborn said:
First, our stadium holds 64,000. And it has been sold out for years. And as an independent there is nothing stopping us from scheduling 7 or 8 home games instead of 6. This would add a 1m or so every year just from having the extra home games.
2/3 of our fans are obligated to be at the game? Not sure where this comes from. I go to every home game and it's a fun environment. I have been to other stadiums such as Notre Dame and Michigan (vs. Miami, FL) where they have over 100k in their stands. It's a great environment. BYU isn't far behind them. although I freely admit that there is no better place to watch a football game then Notre Dame. They simply know how to put on a show and show an unbelievable amount of respect to the opposing team.
Asmodeanreborn said:
Under the current system I agree. But if we do go undefeated I just hope that we would be able to get into a BCS bowl game. This is the biggest unknown.
wellpoke said:
We can agree to disagree on this one, but I'm 100% positive that it is because of our LDS affiliation. There is absolutely no question about this. I work for one of the PAC 10 schools. I'm in CA all the time (I live in Utah). The PAC 10 administrators despise the LDS faith. The school presidents would never allow it. And as a close second is the fact that BYU won't play on Sunday. If you look at a PAC10 sports schedule you will see that they have some type of sporting event almost every Sunday of the year. No way would the PAC10 change their Sunday schedules for us.
The talk of the academics may be a fun to discuss, but it wasn't even close to the reason why the wouldn't accept us in the conference.
wyosteelerfan said:allcoug said:
rly: I am pretty sure that hollywood is west of the mississippi...kinda sounds like that piece of info came outta your rump
Don't take my word for it....
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/colleges/post/_/id/4669375/is-byu-strategizing-end-around-out-of-mwc
mrtnt3x
Well-known member
allcoug said:wyosteelerfan said:allcoug said:
Don't take my word for it....
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/colleges/post/_/id/4669375/is-byu-strategizing-end-around-out-of-mwc
last I check LA was west of the Mississippi
wyosteelerfan said:
Where did I exaggerate. I just provided you with a link to an ESPN blog that says the same thing I just said.
Here's the link again:
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/colleges/post/_/id/4669375/is-byu-strategizing-end-around-out-of-mwc
allcoug said:
Seems to me that your numbers are exaggerated and will probably end up being half of that, and will really be dependent on the schedule. Why in the world would ESPN want to televise BYU vs Utah State? And I still believe it will be harder for BYU to schedule quality opponents than fans seem to think.
And how in the world will broadcasting a game on the BYU channel add that much revenue? I'm sure there are some advertisers who will pay extra to advertise during a game, but 2 mil more? On a channel that no one actually watches outside the faith? Hard to believe...
I think what you're hearing, and what you'll continue to hear - no matter how many links and stats you throw at us - is this:
You think BYU leaving is a good move. Fine - most of us disagree and think it's a silly move. At the same time, no one is really sad to see BYU leave. In fact, most of us would rather not deal with the baggage BYU tows along. That won't change.
GO POKES!
I just can't see how BYU thinks it's going to be better off financially.. football might pull in some extra revenue, but that's not guaranteed.. plus the games aren't going to be primetime football.. it's going to be Tuesday/Thursday type games.. not ideal if you have fans that travel a great distance to see games. The other sports are going to take a huge hit.. the WCC, as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, isn't exactly a good basketball conference outside of Gonzaga and an occasional run from St. Mary's or Pepperdine. If you had gone Big West, then you'd be onto something, but WCC isn't too strong. BYU basically sold out for football, and gave the finger to rest of the athletics it sponsors.
Plus, if BYU wants a path to the BCS, it was much more viable for the MWC than going independent.. even w/ losing Utah the MWC still had an above average shot.. whereas now BYU will HAVE to be undefeated to even get a bowl game.. they won't get the same concessions as Notre Dame currently does. Even Notre Dame has trouble getting into a BCS game.
Plus, if BYU wants a path to the BCS, it was much more viable for the MWC than going independent.. even w/ losing Utah the MWC still had an above average shot.. whereas now BYU will HAVE to be undefeated to even get a bowl game.. they won't get the same concessions as Notre Dame currently does. Even Notre Dame has trouble getting into a BCS game.
kansasCowboy
Well-known member
Okay allcoug! When you play the likes of the #3 team Boise St., #4 team Texas, #5 team TCU and the #22 team Utah every year in the same year...and win, then tell us you have a shot at a BCS bowl! But until you play a tough schedule, don't talk like you're that great. Washington has yet to have a winning season in like 5 years (plus you had a lucky call at the end of the game to beat them) Florida State isn't that tough, they just broke the top 25 this year, but with a new coach and some new players. You still only have TCU and Utah. Pretty piss poor schedule if you ask me.
And the only way you will get any extra home games is by going after the fcs schools. You burnt your bridges with two conferences with your little escapades. now you have two conferences who don't want anything to do with you. (maybe USU). What maybe the Pac-12 might play you, maybe some of the Big 12/10 (I see you have finally started to schedule a tough opponent in Texas) But year in and year out, You only have a select few games set up as "Big Games", but you have all those holes to fill where the MWC filled it well. Sorry, but I'm seeing SOS going way down for you guys. Which means if you do go undefeated and beat up on the Washington and Wash state's or maybe the Baylors and Iowa states, maybe Utep and smu, I'm still not seeing the BCS looking at you guys. Even Army and Navy will get better respect than you will.
I always hated BYU, but in the same respected them as a conference affiliate. Now, I just look at your arrogance and tell you to your face :willybs:
But that's just my :twocents:
And the only way you will get any extra home games is by going after the fcs schools. You burnt your bridges with two conferences with your little escapades. now you have two conferences who don't want anything to do with you. (maybe USU). What maybe the Pac-12 might play you, maybe some of the Big 12/10 (I see you have finally started to schedule a tough opponent in Texas) But year in and year out, You only have a select few games set up as "Big Games", but you have all those holes to fill where the MWC filled it well. Sorry, but I'm seeing SOS going way down for you guys. Which means if you do go undefeated and beat up on the Washington and Wash state's or maybe the Baylors and Iowa states, maybe Utep and smu, I'm still not seeing the BCS looking at you guys. Even Army and Navy will get better respect than you will.
I always hated BYU, but in the same respected them as a conference affiliate. Now, I just look at your arrogance and tell you to your face :willybs:
But that's just my :twocents:
uote]The LV Bowl is one of the first bowl games of the year. They play it around Dec. 20th. I've been to several different bowl games and the LV bowl has to be one of the worst ones out there. The stadium is small, it's in a crappy destination city, and it's played way too early in the season.
[/quote]
I am pretty sure Las Vegas is a good destination for people who don't believe gambling and drinking is a sin! Silly religion always gets in the way.
[/quote]
I am pretty sure Las Vegas is a good destination for people who don't believe gambling and drinking is a sin! Silly religion always gets in the way.
