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Recruiting or Coaching or Both

R

Reality

New member
I'm new to the board - just can't sit quietly any more. The biggest problem that I'm seeing is almost all of the coaches have limited FBS experience. This hurts us in two ways, in my opinion.

First, the coaches don't appear to understand the schemes that work at the FBS level. What may have worked at Division II or a lower level isn't working at the FBS level. I suspect that not playing at this level hurts the coaches ability to understand this and our coaches are not successful in instructing the players in a manner that they understand.

Similarly, our coaching staff may have recruited some players who would have been a good Division II player or Division III at a previous school where they coached or played, but the players aren't successful at the FBS level in the schemes were are using. The near loss to Wofford cemented this in my mind.
 
FCS is Div1. Just saying.

Another major part, even in Vigen's "best year" is the VERY vanilla play calling on offense. At rare times, Vigen will mix things up (like throwing on first down). But, usually, its run up the middle twice, for usually about 3 yards combined, then a pass play with a lot of the routes well short of the 1st down line.

Defense, well, the d-line doesn't seem as explosive as the last couple of years, but the coverage at CB is shaky. Both are new starters.
 
Biggest issue is its hard to get kids to go to Laramie. It takes a special type of tough kid to want to go and put in the work these coaches ask for. Cowboy tough isnt just a tag line
 
Hate to be that guy but the guys on the other side are tough and work hard as well. Easy to talk tough as it fits the great hard working people of Wyoming . But let's be real....we have indoor facilities to practice in just like others. *damn facilities need to start paying off in recruiting as well.

End rant...for now
 
It's recruiting. There has been multiple coaches who have tried. All have failed for the most part in this day and age. You won't get the players you need year in and year out to be competitive all the time at Wyoming. Just the way it is.

Wyoming has a lot better chance to compete in basketball honestly if they wanted to put the resources towards it. Football they have tried multiple things and none work. They got lucky getting Josh Allen. If it wasn't for him Bohl would be packing his bags most likely. Or maybe he wouldn't. Maybe they would just stick with him because no one else will ever do anything either.
 
The only thing we haven't tried is giving a struggling coach more years. Hopefully, with 4 of 5 years having an offense in the sub-100 range, Bohl relieves Vigen of his oc duties. Either way, sticking with Bohl is the best option. We've literally tried everything else.

Frankly, I'm surprised that so many are shocked at today's results.
 
seattlecowboy said:
It's recruiting. There has been multiple coaches who have tried. All have failed for the most part in this day and age. You won't get the players you need year in and year out to be competitive all the time at Wyoming. Just the way it is.

Wyoming has a lot better chance to compete in basketball honestly if they wanted to put the resources towards it. Football they have tried multiple things and none work. They got lucky getting Josh Allen. If it wasn't for him Bohl would be packing his bags most likely. Or maybe he wouldn't. Maybe they would just stick with him because no one else will ever do anything either.
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This is a pretty accurate assessment. You watch our O-line. Icebergs move faster. They can't do anything but block straight ahead. They can't protect the edge and they can't pick up stunts. Receivers don't get separation. But in fairness to them, the qb is running for his life almost the second he gets the snap - just like last year. We got a preview of life without Josh Allen last year. This year looks like a return to Bohl's first 2 years.
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
The only thing we haven't tried is giving a struggling coach more years. Hopefully, with 4 of 5 years having an offense in the sub-100 range, Bohl relieves Vigen of his oc duties. Either way, sticking with Bohl is the best option. We've literally tried everything else.

Frankly, I'm surprised that so many are shocked at today's results.
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I'm certainly not shocked at the final score. But I am a little surprised at just how bad our O-line is. They all could be matador's. The one aspect that I thought Bohl was going to excel at is our biggest weakness. The worlds most imaginative play caller can't overcome an Oline this deficient.
 
Smash mouth football will never work at Wyoming. We will never, never be able to line up and overpower people.

Bohl needs to watch some Sean McVay tape on how to get creative with offense.

Facilities don’t win titles, coaching does. I agree if Wyoming wanted to make a name for itself we’d focus on basketball, but we just built the HPAC so that ain’t happening. All we can do is keep cycling through coaches until we find the next Urban Meyer and hopefully build off of something like that.
 
Boise is pretty imaginative on O and it seems to work. They have inferior players compared to the P5 teams they beat, but they tweak the offense to be creative. Every defensive coordinator knows how D up against our O because they have been for 30 years. I don’t think we need the spread but you do need to be u predictable. In any instance, you’ll need to block some.
 
Since Tiller, Wyoming football has been an exercise in futility. Perhaps it is time to emulate the service academies. They have inferior athletes, yet seem to be competitive most years. Maybe a triple option, veer, or something...anything besides dive left, dive right, pass for three yards and punt (well, that isn't going so well either).

Bohl and company have no excuse. They recruited these kids, they coach these kids, they teach these kids, and at the end of the day, they are responsible for the product on the field. I'm not advocating firing Bohl, but god damn, if you keep running into the same wall, play after play after play, perhaps it is time to try something else. It isn't FCS NDSU for fuck sake, but it is a step up and it requires a bit more imagination than Vigen and Bohl are showing.

And I'm sick of the excuse that you can't get kids to come to Wyoming. Maybe they need to stop recruiting Texas and Colorado and go looking in other cold parts of the country as has been suggested. I was around for the Eaton years, and Roche years and Tiller years. They could recruit, why not these guys?
 
CowboyNV said:
I was around for the Eaton years, and Roche years and Tiller years. They could recruit, why not these guys?
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To be fair, CFB changed dramatically and is now driven by tv markets, media, and the P5 label. Whole different world now, and one we've never been able to compete in.

Like calpoke, my concern has always been establishing a line to successfully run this offense. When Burman hired DC it was because he didn't believe a Bohl-style offense would work at WYO.

I think Bohl has to get an OC that focuses on getting playmakers and getting them the ball. Creativity is a must. The university has to determine if we have the administrative environment for success.
 
Run an offense we’re your QB gets rid of the ball under 3 seconds. I don’t care if it’s the spread or pro style but if your lines shit, and the other team stacks the box get rid of the ball. Look at what the Buffalo Bills are doing because they have a shit oline. When Boise was starting their run a decade ago they used trick plays to create an advantage, why can’t we do that? Same thing with the defense really, after five games how many times have we rushed more than four? How many times have those four gotten pressure?

It seems to me it is more of a coaching philosophy issue. Bohl is right on with the development style and recruiting philosophy, but you have to be more imaginative if things aren’t working on game day right?
 
marcuswyo said:
Run an offense we’re your QB gets rid of the ball under 3 seconds. I don’t care if it’s the spread or pro style but if your lines shit, and the other team stacks the box get rid of the ball. Look at what the Buffalo Bills are doing because they have a shit oline. When Boise was starting their run a decade ago they used trick plays to create an advantage, why can’t we do that? Same thing with the defense really, after five games how many times have we rushed more than four? How many times have those four gotten pressure?

It seems to me it is more of a coaching philosophy issue. Bohl is right on with the development style and recruiting philosophy, but you have to be more imaginative if things aren’t working on game day right?
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I know that BSU used some trick plays to very great effect but thier offensive success is not the result of trickeration. Everything they do, they do well. Trick plays used just for the sake of trick plays tend to look pretty silly, but when you are fundamentally sound in your run blocking/pass protection you can create a situation where the defense is having to commit more to stopping your vanilla schemes...at which point voila! trickeration works and works well.

Teams don't have to commit anything extra to stop ANYthing that wyoming does...pass/run/screen/option/zone-read/whatever. I've watched all of the pokes game this year and been in attendace at the home games. It feels like outside of the NMSU game teams pretty much enjoy a man-for-man advantage against us when we are on offense that allows them to just rush 4 and blanket our recievers and still get to TVW. I'll allow that some of the reason for this is schematic in nature but I don't think it is close to the main reason. My feeling is that the long term recruiting struggles that Wyoming faces are rearing their head again.
 
IMO, sub 100 offenses 4 out of 5 years is more than players. Other than Bohl, responsibility is at Vigen's feet regardless of why.

Bohl now knows what types of recruits are available to him and the competition level he faces. He has to find an offensive coach/talent evaluator/etc. that can succeed.

My only disappointment will be if Bohl sticks with Vigen. If that happens, start the clock. If Bohl makes adjustments to the staff, mainly moving Vigen around, then I'm fully on board with another 3+ years regardless.

Bohl's a good coach. He moved on from Stanard; hopefully he does the same with Vigen.
 
everyone here is on point about the lack of creativity, the lack of ability to adjust to defenses, the lack of offensive setups that exploit a matchup against the defense, etc. wrs run hitches and out routes 90% of the time, if we run, its up the middle cuz by golly we are wyoming tough, not wyoming winning. the teams that win are unpredictable, even if they adhere to a certain offensive philosophy.

im fine with a pro style run offense that wants to control the clock. we just need to mix it up 10x more. attack downfield sometimes, run outside besides a jet sweep, not every pass outside 3rd and long needs to be play action, run the qb some, etc. this coaching staff, to me, will be remembered as the most boring and conservative play calling, a sure recipe for not winning in college football
 
It’s coaching. Bohl can recruit, but doesn’t know offense. We were a mediocre offense away from being right in that game vs a ranked opponent. Defense did what they could
 
BSU's 5th option WR was a consensus 4-star recruit. Broncos looked more talented and deeper because they are. Missing David Moa and Tyler Horton, it made no difference. That's recruiting.

Wyoming will see an uptick in recruiting soon because of the brand new facility, but you won't see the results of that for another few years.
 
ismail, conway, mayfield have shown they can get open, but rarely run a route that isnt a hitch or out route or more than 5 yds downfield. nico only gets 14 carries??? all up the middle....

there is enough talent, not enough plays to exploit a weakness. get Ismail on a lb or slow safety, get conway downfield, let mayfield do a seam against a lb, run nico more when there is only 7 in the box, these are plays that result when you know how to gameplan for a team. our offense is set up that we are going to run up the middle and establish the run and then do play action off that regardless who the opponent is....doesn't always work and you need to be able to adapt in game, find a matchup yiu like, set the play up to exploit that matchup, etc.

none of that, we will run 5 plays, if they dont work, we will suck

ita offensive play calling, lack of understanding how to get good matchups and exploit defenses weaknesses
 
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