Dave Christensen Show 10.22.13

[SDPokeFan]

Wick says it all about recruiting:

(paraphrasing) I had no other choice. The other two schools to offer were Northern Colorado and Sac State, I had to go to Wyoming if I wanted to play the big schools.

Awesome.

Just goes to show what I have been saying. We get FCS players, so we should drop down to FCS and compete.

How about, fuck no? Too strong? Than, HEEEEEEELLS no.

I'm telling you, after you got past the disappointment of not having these 4-8 FBS teams you would begin to enjoy quality FCS teams. Of course, this assumes we could beat Cal-Poly, which we can't even do as an FBS team.

Okay, say goodbye to 90% of all donations, support, and overall enthusiasim for the University if it went in such a route.

Everybody keeps saying this, or things along this line. But no one has explained to me why. Do you really think the good people of Wyoming and their fans will suddenly just drop all support for Wyoming if it drops to FCS? Why? Why would we not support a winning FCS team? Is it really that much better to have a 4-8 FBS team than a winning FCS team? Isn't winning important? Or is it just important to say "we're an FBS school." What does it matter if we're never competitive? I'm not trolling I just do not get this logic. I would happily support an FCS team that is making the playoffs, is consistently ranked and even challenges for a national championship then this mediocre shit show I've endured for 20 years.

 

[HR_Poke]

I would stop donating if we dropped to fcs. I'd drop my tickets too.

 

[SDPokeFan]

I would stop donating if we dropped to fcs. I'd drop my tickets too.

Why? Please explain.

 

[Cowduck]

I would stop donating if we dropped to fcs. I'd drop my tickets too.

Why? Please explain.

Because they would be sending the signal that they don't really need or want our money anymore, that's why.

 

[Wyovanian]

I would stop donating if we dropped to fcs. I'd drop my tickets too.

Why? Please explain.

Most of your over-achieving, high earning, high net worth donors would look at this as quitting. It would violate their sensibilities and values.

 

[HR_Poke]

I would stop donating if we dropped to fcs. I'd drop my tickets too.

Why? Please explain.

Most of your over-achieving, high earning, high net worth donors would look at this as quitting. It would violate their sensibilities and values.

I don't fit that definition but my rationale would be the same. May as well not even play football and restart baseball if your going to drop to fcs.

 

[mwc fan]

Wick says it all about recruiting:

(paraphrasing) I had no other choice. The other two schools to offer were Northern Colorado and Sac State, I had to go to Wyoming if I wanted to play the big schools.

Awesome.

Just goes to show what I have been saying. We get FCS players, so we should drop down to FCS and compete.

Thats one way to look at it. On the other hand you can also say Wyoming picks up some diamonds in the rough and has an eye for underrated players who can actually start on a lot of teams in our conference. We just need recruit better defense players. The offensive cupboard is full time to fill the defense with some depth.

 

[NowherePoke]

Joe Tiller had six wins against winning teams at the end of year five. He also had three seasons were he outscored opponents (in his 6 yrs), compared to Joe Glenn's 3 wins against winning teams (6yrs) and 1 season of out scoring opponents. DC is at 4 wins against winning opponents and no seasons with more points than opponents.

Tiller only beat two teams with 8 or greater wins (6 yrs), Glenn beat 3 teams with 8 or more wins(6 yrs), and DC has beat 3 teams with 8 or more wins (under 5 yrs).

Joe Tiller's 6th year is what has set him aside from the pack, and the 93 co-championship.

note: I didn't count beating 6-6 teams as a winning season, and I may have missed something( my eyes hurt today).

http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Wyoming.htm

Agreed on 93 and 96 setting Joe aside. Anyone that has was around at the time remembers that Joe was not all that loved by the Wyoming fanbase as he had the unenviable position of following Roach.


I will just leave this here in terms of DC/Glenn:

Football Sagarin Ratings:

Glenn:

03: 83
04: 49
05: 82
06: 72
07: 85
08: 122


DC:

09: 82
10: 108
11: 84
12: 121
13: 104 (YTD)



That doesn't look like progress to me......

 

[WyoBrandX]

Wick says it all about recruiting:

(paraphrasing) I had no other choice. The other two schools to offer were Northern Colorado and Sac State, I had to go to Wyoming if I wanted to play the big schools.

Awesome.

Just goes to show what I have been saying. We get FCS players, so we should drop down to FCS and compete.

How about, fuck no? Too strong? Than, HEEEEEEELLS no.

I'm telling you, after you got past the disappointment of not having these 4-8 FBS teams you would begin to enjoy quality FCS teams. Of course, this assumes we could beat Cal-Poly, which we can't even do as an FBS team.

Okay, say goodbye to 90% of all donations, support, and overall enthusiasim for the University if it went in such a route.

Everybody keeps saying this, or things along this line. But no one has explained to me why. Do you really think the good people of Wyoming and their fans will suddenly just drop all support for Wyoming if it drops to FCS? Why? Why would we not support a winning FCS team? Is it really that much better to have a 4-8 FBS team than a winning FCS team? Isn't winning important? Or is it just important to say "we're an FBS school." What does it matter if we're never competitive? I'm not trolling I just do not get this logic. I would happily support an FCS team that is making the playoffs, is consistently ranked and even challenges for a national championship then this mediocre shit show I've endured for 20 years.

I do think they would drop support of it. We have made enough noise on a national stage over the years to make ourselves proud. We have heard crickets in the stands and have bags on our heads. I look at stepping down a division as giving up. We just can't compete with the rest of the country.

In reality, the Wyoming way, is we often overachieve. Look at Cheyenne and Laramie going after the data centers right now. Microsoft is building in Cheyenne. Walmart is. Lowes. NCAR. Echostar. The list goes on and on. 10 years ago, nobody would have said "oh lets build data centers in Wyoming next to the antelope and cows." We did that because we have the desire to suceed.

We have all the knobs in place to succeed in Wyoming Athletics right now. The wrong knobs are being turned, or being turned in ways they shouldn't be.

We are competitive - we have been for years. You can see bigger states with teams do alot worse than us (New Mexico, CSU, SDSU, probably others). We just aren't winning the games we want to win to keep us above .500 consistently. I think most Wyoming fans would be happy with .750 on a regular basis and estatic with 1.00 from time to time.

Thinking more about this, we should hire on Randy Bruins with Cheyenne LEADS to run our athletic's department. Those guys have set some serious goals and have obtained them.

I understand wanting to give up. It seems to make sense that we would do better at a division below where we are, but it would only work for a bit. We would end up right back to where we are now. We need some serious leadership changes in our athletics departments.

 

[WyoBrandX]

Joe Tiller had six wins against winning teams at the end of year five. He also had three seasons were he outscored opponents (in his 6 yrs), compared to Joe Glenn's 3 wins against winning teams (6yrs) and 1 season of out scoring opponents. DC is at 4 wins against winning opponents and no seasons with more points than opponents.

Tiller only beat two teams with 8 or greater wins (6 yrs), Glenn beat 3 teams with 8 or more wins(6 yrs), and DC has beat 3 teams with 8 or more wins (under 5 yrs).

Joe Tiller's 6th year is what has set him aside from the pack, and the 93 co-championship.

note: I didn't count beating 6-6 teams as a winning season, and I may have missed something( my eyes hurt today).

http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Wyoming.htm

ol average joe is what my parents used to call him. i'm not so sure dave isn't about the same. the difference is tiller had high high's and low lows, while dave has low low's and medium highs.

Agreed on 93 and 96 setting Joe aside. Anyone that has was around at the time remembers that Joe was not all that loved by the Wyoming fanbase as he had the unenviable position of following Roach.


I will just leave this here in terms of DC/Glenn:

Football Sagarin Ratings:

Glenn:

03: 83
04: 49
05: 82
06: 72
07: 85
08: 122


DC:

09: 82
10: 108
11: 84
12: 121
13: 104 (YTD)



That doesn't look like progress to me......

 

[COS Cowboy]

I would stop donating if we dropped to fcs. I'd drop my tickets too.

Why? Please explain.

I am not interested in FCS football. Not many are based on attendance and tv popularity. Has anyone ever dropped a division and had long term success? The only FCS teams I am remotely familiar with have/are moving up not down.

 

[TSpoke]

I would stop donating if we dropped to fcs. I'd drop my tickets too.

Why? Please explain.

I would drop my tickets and money in an instant.

Why? Cuz I don't watch FCS football. I enjoy being a part of the top in college football even though we haven't been too competitive lately, hope springs eternal. I would be happy staying home and watching FBS football on TV. I might show up for a game if they made a deep run into the playoffs but that would be it.

Won't ever happen though so this discusion is a moot point.

 

[kansasCowboy]

Nice work

I have to be honest here. I find this hilarious that if I had actually posted these facts you would probably be getting all over me. Someone else does it and it's ,"nice work"? I really don't know what to think of this.

Please tell me that I'm not the only one who is noticing this?

By the way that was good work, you beat me to it.

Probably because he doesn't want to marry DC like you do.

Do you have to be an ass? Really? Anytime you address me it is with little smart ass comments.

 

[cowboyz]

Wick says it all about recruiting:

(paraphrasing) I had no other choice. The other two schools to offer were Northern Colorado and Sac State, I had to go to Wyoming if I wanted to play the big schools.

Awesome.

Just goes to show what I have been saying. We get FCS players, so we should drop down to FCS and compete.

How about, fuck no? Too strong? Than, HEEEEEEELLS no.

I'm telling you, after you got past the disappointment of not having these 4-8 FBS teams you would begin to enjoy quality FCS teams. Of course, this assumes we could beat Cal-Poly, which we can't even do as an FBS team.

Okay, say goodbye to 90% of all donations, support, and overall enthusiasim for the University if it went in such a route.

We would indeed be competitive and probably even dominating, if we took this team with this budget, fan base etc. and played in the FCS right now. The way I see it is if we are a sub .500 team in the FBS we will be the same in the FCS. We'd have less scholarships that would put us on par with the other FCS teams. We'd also get lower quality players with those scholarships. Brett doesn't come to a FCS Wyo, nor does almost every single player on this team. They'd all be going to other FBS teams, with the same thought as they have now, "I'd rather play at the top level of college football even if it's shit nowhere on a team that has a limited fanbase, a still unproven coach, crap weather and is historically a loser, over playing on the #1 FCS team in the country". Almost all of players would be very welcome on every FCS team in the country. We would ntot be getting most of these guys if we were FCS. Then we'd still have the same administration that would hire the same type coaches that would have the same shit plan and inability to motivate, etc. I say we stay where we are. If the Pokes drop to FCS do I still root for them, yes. But playing Northern Colorado isn't as exciting as taking on Boise State, Texas, etc...

 

[SDPokeFan]

Wick says it all about recruiting:

(paraphrasing) I had no other choice. The other two schools to offer were Northern Colorado and Sac State, I had to go to Wyoming if I wanted to play the big schools.

Awesome.

Just goes to show what I have been saying. We get FCS players, so we should drop down to FCS and compete.

How about, fuck no? Too strong? Than, HEEEEEEELLS no.

I'm telling you, after you got past the disappointment of not having these 4-8 FBS teams you would begin to enjoy quality FCS teams. Of course, this assumes we could beat Cal-Poly, which we can't even do as an FBS team.

Okay, say goodbye to 90% of all donations, support, and overall enthusiasim for the University if it went in such a route.

We would indeed be competitive and probably even dominating, if we took this team with this budget, fan base etc. and played in the FCS right now. The way I see it is if we are a sub .500 team in the FBS we will be the same in the FCS. We'd have less scholarships that would put us on par with the other FCS teams. We'd also get lower quality players with those scholarships. Brett doesn't come to a FCS Wyo, nor does almost every single player on this team. They'd all be going to other FBS teams, with the same thought as they have now, "I'd rather play at the top level of college football even if it's shit nowhere on a team that has a limited fanbase, a still unproven coach, crap weather and is historically a loser, over playing on the #1 FCS team in the country". Almost all of players would be very welcome on every FCS team in the country. We would ntot be getting most of these guys if we were FCS. Then we'd still have the same administration that would hire the same type coaches that would have the same shit plan and inability to motivate, etc. I say we stay where we are. If the Pokes drop to FCS do I still root for them, yes. But playing Northern Colorado isn't as exciting as taking on Boise State, Texas, etc...

Well we get FCS players now, so you're saying we would start getting DII players instead? With the exception of a few, not many players on this team should be playing FBS football. And I used to get excited about having Texas come to town (I was at the home and road game against the Longhorns) and Nebraska (I was there, too), et., al, but what does it matter if we never win those games? Are we just window shopping? We get to ooh and ahh and see what a good team looks like for three hours? That's all we need, record be damned?

 

[Wyovanian]

Wick says it all about recruiting:

(paraphrasing) I had no other choice. The other two schools to offer were Northern Colorado and Sac State, I had to go to Wyoming if I wanted to play the big schools.

Awesome.

Just goes to show what I have been saying. We get FCS players, so we should drop down to FCS and compete.

How about, fuck no? Too strong? Than, HEEEEEEELLS no.

I'm telling you, after you got past the disappointment of not having these 4-8 FBS teams you would begin to enjoy quality FCS teams. Of course, this assumes we could beat Cal-Poly, which we can't even do as an FBS team.

Okay, say goodbye to 90% of all donations, support, and overall enthusiasim for the University if it went in such a route.

We would indeed be competitive and probably even dominating, if we took this team with this budget, fan base etc. and played in the FCS right now. The way I see it is if we are a sub .500 team in the FBS we will be the same in the FCS. We'd have less scholarships that would put us on par with the other FCS teams. We'd also get lower quality players with those scholarships. Brett doesn't come to a FCS Wyo, nor does almost every single player on this team. They'd all be going to other FBS teams, with the same thought as they have now, "I'd rather play at the top level of college football even if it's shit nowhere on a team that has a limited fanbase, a still unproven coach, crap weather and is historically a loser, over playing on the #1 FCS team in the country". Almost all of players would be very welcome on every FCS team in the country. We would ntot be getting most of these guys if we were FCS. Then we'd still have the same administration that would hire the same type coaches that would have the same shit plan and inability to motivate, etc. I say we stay where we are. If the Pokes drop to FCS do I still root for them, yes. But playing Northern Colorado isn't as exciting as taking on Boise State, Texas, etc...

Well we get FCS players now, so you're saying we would start getting DII players instead? With the exception of a few, not many players on this team should be playing FBS football. And I used to get excited about having Texas come to town (I was at the home and road game against the Longhorns) and Nebraska (I was there, too), et., al, but what does it matter if we never win those games? Are we just window shopping? We get to ooh and ahh and see what a good team looks like for three hours? That's all we need, record be damned?

You seem convinced it's all on the players and none of it on the coaching.

 

[NowherePoke]

Wick says it all about recruiting:

(paraphrasing) I had no other choice. The other two schools to offer were Northern Colorado and Sac State, I had to go to Wyoming if I wanted to play the big schools.

Awesome.

Just goes to show what I have been saying. We get FCS players, so we should drop down to FCS and compete.

How about, fuck no? Too strong? Than, HEEEEEEELLS no.

I'm telling you, after you got past the disappointment of not having these 4-8 FBS teams you would begin to enjoy quality FCS teams. Of course, this assumes we could beat Cal-Poly, which we can't even do as an FBS team.

Okay, say goodbye to 90% of all donations, support, and overall enthusiasim for the University if it went in such a route.

We would indeed be competitive and probably even dominating, if we took this team with this budget, fan base etc. and played in the FCS right now. The way I see it is if we are a sub .500 team in the FBS we will be the same in the FCS. We'd have less scholarships that would put us on par with the other FCS teams. We'd also get lower quality players with those scholarships. Brett doesn't come to a FCS Wyo, nor does almost every single player on this team. They'd all be going to other FBS teams, with the same thought as they have now, "I'd rather play at the top level of college football even if it's shit nowhere on a team that has a limited fanbase, a still unproven coach, crap weather and is historically a loser, over playing on the #1 FCS team in the country". Almost all of players would be very welcome on every FCS team in the country. We would ntot be getting most of these guys if we were FCS. Then we'd still have the same administration that would hire the same type coaches that would have the same shit plan and inability to motivate, etc. I say we stay where we are. If the Pokes drop to FCS do I still root for them, yes. But playing Northern Colorado isn't as exciting as taking on Boise State, Texas, etc...

Well we get FCS players now, so you're saying we would start getting DII players instead? With the exception of a few, not many players on this team should be playing FBS football. And I used to get excited about having Texas come to town (I was at the home and road game against the Longhorns) and Nebraska (I was there, too), et., al, but what does it matter if we never win those games? Are we just window shopping? We get to ooh and ahh and see what a good team looks like for three hours? That's all we need, record be damned?

Serious fallacy in your logic. You assume that we would get the same players we get now. That would not be the case. Do we have a lot of players that chose Wyoming because we were the only FBS school to offer (or one of just a few alongside someone like NMSU, etc.)? Sure. Would those same players choose Wyoming if we were FCS? Not a chance.

The problem is that Wyoming faces the exact same problem at FCS that we do at FBS. The state of Wyoming does not produce hardly any talent at either level. It's not like the regional FCS schools are filled with Wyoming talent. It's actually the opposite. So we still have to try to recruit kids from TX, CA, etc.

From a funding standpoint, we would dramatically lose revenue from TV, conference payouts, donors, etc. The difference in NCAA tournament distribution revenue between a multi-bid league like the MWC and a one-bid league like the Big Sky is enormous.

A move to the Big Sky would decimate our basketball program's attempted recovery. We could no longer afford to hire a coach like Shyatt and our recruiting would decline dramatically. Other programs would see various levels of impact.

Finally, let's just look at reality. Nobody goes backwards. Teams continually move up to D1 and/or FBS and it almost never goes the other way. There is a logical reason for that. The incentives encourage moving up. We are subject to the same incentives.

We have two options: D1/FBS or D3(non-scholly). If you are going to seriously attempt to compete in intercollegiate athletics and utilize it as a marketing tool for the University than you need to compete on the highest level, particularly when you have done so for 75+ years. If not, then just make it glorified intramurals and forget about athletics. The latter won't happen.

I understand you live in FCS country, but it is not a viable alternative in Wyoming.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

Serious fallacy in your logic. You assume that we would get the same players we get now. That would not be the case. Do we have a lot of players that chose Wyoming because we were the only FBS school to offer (or one of just a few alongside someone like NMSU, etc.)? Sure. Would those same players choose Wyoming if we were FCS? Not a chance.

The problem is that Wyoming faces the exact same problem at FCS that we do at FBS. The state of Wyoming does not produce hardly any talent at either level. It's not like the regional FCS schools are filled with Wyoming talent. It's actually the opposite. So we still have to try to recruit kids from TX, CA, etc.

Spot on, Nowhere. Wyoming-bred talent is typically NAIA-DII talent. Carroll and Chadron are stacked with Wyoming kids. We would have one hell of an NAIA team.

In ALOT of cases, like Nowhere just pointed out, Wyoming being FBS is the ONLY reason we get players. It's our strongest recruiting angle! (it certainly isn't our giant fan base, sandy beaches, hot women, and state of the art facilities)

 

[BeaverPoke]

The fact that Wyoming's biggest recruiting tool is that we are a D1 team is why we constantly struggle.
That means we are going after mid to upper level FCS talent.
Of course, there are hundreds of kids every single season that get over looked. Our goal is to just get them all I guess.
But when Utah and TCU were getting good, they weren't getting recruits because they were D1. They had tons of other D1 offers as well.
We just need to get into bowl games before we can get the better recruits.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

The fact that Wyoming's biggest recruiting tool is that we are a D1 team is why we constantly struggle.
That means we are going after mid to upper level FCS talent.
Of course, there are hundreds of kids every single season that get over looked. Our goal is to just get them all I guess.
But when Utah and TCU were getting good, they weren't getting recruits because they were D1. They had tons of other D1 offers as well.
We just need to get into bowl games before we can get the better recruits.

Also spot on. Coaches can't waste their time on talent they know they aren't going to get. They know what they're up against and they know that Wyoming recruiting is all about the "diamonds in the rough", the Brett Smiths, Jovon Bouknights, Marcus Harris, John Wendlings.

We are stuck in limbo man, we have a hard time winning because we are largely made up of FCS talent but we can't get FBS talent because we can't win.

Then there are those of us who are convinced talent has nothing to do with it and it is 100% on the coaches...for you I don't really know what to say. Any coach who takes this job will inherit the same struggles.