Bohl needs to....

[SDPokeFan]

Our issue starts with QB play. Young or not....TVW is Nick Smith....maybe worse......

I think I agree with you. But he also has no good receivers and the line is abysmal.

 

[LanderPoke]

I don't buy the talent thing. Our recruiting classes beat out almost all FCS teams, yet our offense would be among the worst even at that level. FREAKING DUQUESNE DUKES scored 21 against Hawai'i.

+1. coaching matters more in football than in any other sport by far. We are first and foremost short on coaching

 

[fromolwyoming]

Defense, I expected to take a step back, losing both starting CBs after all. Not sure what the deal has been on the d-line though. Maybe not given enough time due to the new CBs?

Anyway, the offense, well, yeah. TVW has a big arm and is decent sized. But without proper coaching and proper support when passing (both blocking and catching), he's been set up for failure anyway. Josh Allen ended up with some bad habits while here that he's only recently been getting help on fixing.

The only time Vigen's offense even worked was when the offense was literally loaded with NFL players. Even then, it was so badly inconsistent it never made it to the top half of offenses. It was the players making up the coaching then. Now, we have Nico Evans. Kid is running like Hill did, and that's awesome. But he has almost no support from the passing game or the playcalling.

 

[calpoke25]

Landerpoke, honest question, besides Nico who on our team would be a starter on another MW team. What is this talent you’re seeing? Sorry, but we have a low-FCS offense from both talent and coaching.

When the defense sucked you could at least still identify individually talented players, Granderson, Wingard, Wilson, Ghaifan, etc. I do not see that on offense. What is the talent you’re seeing?

 

[specialteamsguru]

This is going to be interesting. Burman's first hunch as an ad was that this type of offense would never work at WYO. Bohl showed it could work if you have nfl talent at skill positions. However, Bohl has struggled to maintain or develop that level of talent.

Burman is in a tough spot. New president and struggling football program that is 100% Burman and Bohl.

I don't know. I hope Bohl lays out a plan to address the O. If it is business as usual, I too will start to lose confidence in Bohl.

It's not the type of offense. It's the people running it. I believe we have the skill kids RIGHT NOW. How is it that we can move the ball whenever we absolutely have to?

Some of that is the opponent being in prevent defense. We don’t have any talent on offense Landerpoke. Sorry to say. Talent would’ve at least found the end zone once regardless of coaching.

Most of it is coaches decisions. Talent can't find the end zone from the sidelines or on page 27 of the offensive game plan. Nico didn't see touches last year and I don't buy the "he lifted weights in the spring" narrative. He clearly "developed" behind Hill and it seems, because he wasn't Hill, benched. Nick backed up Josh and because he's not Josh has been benched and ignored. Talent evaluation, development and offensive game planning has and will remain horrible with the same caliber of coaching personnel. TVW will be blamed as a bad qb and the coaches responsible for his development will continue forward without consequence.

 

[Poke-proud]

Offense ranked 124 out of 129 teams.

 

[LanderPoke]

Landerpoke, honest question, besides Nico who on our team would be a starter on another MW team. What is this talent you’re seeing? Sorry, but we have a low-FCS offense from both talent and coaching.

When the defense sucked you could at least still identify individually talented players, Granderson, Wingard, Wilson, Ghaifan, etc. I do not see that on offense. What is the talent you’re seeing?

My point is you can't really draw any conclusions about the offense whatsoever because of the scheme, playcalling and coaching. To answer your question, though, I think MAyfield, Fort, a couple OL and WRs could be good enough to start for other MW teams. I can't really point to anything to substantiate it, but I would bet that other MWC run of the mill starter WRs and OLs would looks just as helpless and crappy if asked to run the plays we run, the routes we run and block the blocks we set our selves up to block. They are asked to do the impossible.

 

[Wyoklaelk]

Landerpoke, honest question, besides Nico who on our team would be a starter on another MW team. What is this talent you’re seeing? Sorry, but we have a low-FCS offense from both talent and coaching.

When the defense sucked you could at least still identify individually talented players, Granderson, Wingard, Wilson, Ghaifan, etc. I do not see that on offense. What is the talent you’re seeing?

My point is you can't really draw any conclusions about the offense whatsoever because of the scheme, playcalling and coaching. To answer your question, though, I think MAyfield, Fort, a couple OL and WRs could be good enough to start for other MW teams. I can't really point to anything to substantiate it, but I would bet that other MWC run of the mill starter WRs and OLs would looks just as helpless and crappy if asked to run the plays we run, the routes we run and block the blocks we set our selves up to block. They are asked to do the impossible.

yes. running up the middle against a stacked box, throwing short so much especially when receiver isnt moving (hitches), no rb in the passing game, just terribly set up, we run way too many plays that had zero chance of gaining 4 yds....

 

[bullbugle307]

Landerpoke, honest question, besides Nico who on our team would be a starter on another MW team. What is this talent you’re seeing? Sorry, but we have a low-FCS offense from both talent and coaching.

When the defense sucked you could at least still identify individually talented players, Granderson, Wingard, Wilson, Ghaifan, etc. I do not see that on offense. What is the talent you’re seeing?

My point is you can't really draw any conclusions about the offense whatsoever because of the scheme, playcalling and coaching. To answer your question, though, I think MAyfield, Fort, a couple OL and WRs could be good enough to start for other MW teams. I can't really point to anything to substantiate it, but I would bet that other MWC run of the mill starter WRs and OLs would looks just as helpless and crappy if asked to run the plays we run, the routes we run and block the blocks we set our selves up to block. They are asked to do the impossible.

yes. running up the middle against a stacked box, throwing short so much especially when receiver isnt moving (hitches), no rb in the passing game, just terribly set up, we run way too many plays that had zero chance of gaining 4 yds....

Since last year I've been wondering if opposing teams DCs don't tell their guys to go out and allow a few runs up the middle for 5 to 10, especially to start the second half, just to keep Vigen predictable. As long as we break 2 or 3 runs a game, hell run into a stacked box for little no gain the other 90 percent of the time, doing exactly what the defense wants him to do. The funny part is, if something other than running up the gut works consistently, its like hes afraid to try it again. I see this with the use of our TEs and with how we used Van Maanen last year.

 

[307bball]

Landerpoke, honest question, besides Nico who on our team would be a starter on another MW team. What is this talent you’re seeing? Sorry, but we have a low-FCS offense from both talent and coaching.

When the defense sucked you could at least still identify individually talented players, Granderson, Wingard, Wilson, Ghaifan, etc. I do not see that on offense. What is the talent you’re seeing?

My point is you can't really draw any conclusions about the offense whatsoever because of the scheme, playcalling and coaching. To answer your question, though, I think MAyfield, Fort, a couple OL and WRs could be good enough to start for other MW teams. I can't really point to anything to substantiate it, but I would bet that other MWC run of the mill starter WRs and OLs would looks just as helpless and crappy if asked to run the plays we run, the routes we run and block the blocks we set our selves up to block. They are asked to do the impossible.

yes. running up the middle against a stacked box, throwing short so much especially when receiver isnt moving (hitches), no rb in the passing game, just terribly set up, we run way too many plays that had zero chance of gaining 4 yds....

The idea that coaching matters more in football = coaching matters most just does not fly. Yes, coaching does matter more in football but the effects of talent and physical ability will still dwarf the effects of coaching. Great players make average coaches great. Try this for a thought experiment. Imagine a universe where every player on wyoming's roster is now playing at Alabama for Nick Saban and vise-versa. In that instant the Bohl/Vigen System becomes unstoppable (especially in the MW) while Alabama becomes the worst P5 team. Now this is an extreme example but it illustrates how heavily player talent influences how we view coaches. In my mind great college football coaches do not distinguish themselves by being superior with x's and o's, but by building a program through long term efforts at elevating a culture of winning and competing. This palaver about scheme/play-calling is such a red herring....it distracts from what is really going on at UW (and schools like UW), namely a lack of REAL commitment ($$$) that seperates the college football elite from the rest.

 

[Wyoklaelk]

yes. running up the middle against a stacked box, throwing short so much especially when receiver isnt moving (hitches), no rb in the passing game, just terribly set up, we run way too many plays that had zero chance of gaining 4 yds....
[/quote]

The idea that coaching matters more in football = coaching matters most just does not fly. Yes, coaching does matter more in football but the effects of talent and physical ability will still dwarf the effects of coaching. Great players make average coaches great. Try this for a thought experiment. Imagine a universe where every player on wyoming's roster is now playing at Alabama for Nick Saban and vise-versa. In that instant the Bohl/Vigen System becomes unstoppable (especially in the MW) while Alabama becomes the worst P5 team. Now this is an extreme example but it illustrates how heavily player talent influences how we view coaches. In my mind great college football coaches do not distinguish themselves by being superior with x's and o's, but by building a program through long term efforts at elevating a culture of winning and competing. This palaver about scheme/play-calling is such a red herring....it distracts from what is really going on at UW (and schools like UW), namely a lack of REAL commitment ($$$) that seperates the college football elite from the rest.
[/quote]

disagree....almost any other offensive coordinator wins the hawaii game

this crap we are watching is play calling at its worst. a good coach can get more out of his players, ours make them look terrible with an unwinnable play call, every down. these players arent that much slower or weaker, and i am fine with a running team. but we cant do anything creatively, exploit anyone, etc. its like tecmo bowl with 8 fing plays....

 

[bladerunnr]

Landerpoke, honest question, besides Nico who on our team would be a starter on another MW team. What is this talent you’re seeing? Sorry, but we have a low-FCS offense from both talent and coaching.

When the defense sucked you could at least still identify individually talented players, Granderson, Wingard, Wilson, Ghaifan, etc. I do not see that on offense. What is the talent you’re seeing?

My point is you can't really draw any conclusions about the offense whatsoever because of the scheme, playcalling and coaching. To answer your question, though, I think MAyfield, Fort, a couple OL and WRs could be good enough to start for other MW teams. I can't really point to anything to substantiate it, but I would bet that other MWC run of the mill starter WRs and OLs would looks just as helpless and crappy if asked to run the plays we run, the routes we run and block the blocks we set our selves up to block. They are asked to do the impossible.

yes. running up the middle against a stacked box, throwing short so much especially when receiver isnt moving (hitches), no rb in the passing game, just terribly set up, we run way too many plays that had zero chance of gaining 4 yds....

The idea that coaching matters more in football = coaching matters most just does not fly. Yes, coaching does matter more in football but the effects of talent and physical ability will still dwarf the effects of coaching. Great players make average coaches great. Try this for a thought experiment. Imagine a universe where every player on wyoming's roster is now playing at Alabama for Nick Saban and vise-versa. In that instant the Bohl/Vigen System becomes unstoppable (especially in the MW) while Alabama becomes the worst P5 team. Now this is an extreme example but it illustrates how heavily player talent influences how we view coaches. In my mind great college football coaches do not distinguish themselves by being superior with x's and o's, but by building a program through long term efforts at elevating a culture of winning and competing. This palaver about scheme/play-calling is such a red herring....it distracts from what is really going on at UW (and schools like UW), namely a lack of REAL commitment ($$$) that seperates the college football elite from the rest.

When Auburn had Cam Newton for a year, they win the national championship. Two years later, the coach is fired. But coaching does matter. I think Joe Tiller could turn almost any offense into an aerial machine. But talent matters a hellavu lot more. Scott Frost is learning just how little talent he inherited. The same for Chip Kelly. Josh Allen masked the lack of talent we have. Last year, we had 27 yards rushing against Gardner Webb. Now we have a qb who can't run or throw as well as Allen. We don't have a single receiver who needs more than single coverage, average running backs, and a very limited Oline. The play calling isn't helping. I'm guessing Bohl and Vigen think opening up the playbook is going to lead to a lot of turnovers.

 

[laxwyo]

Our issue starts with QB play. Young or not....TVW is Nick Smith....maybe worse......

No he’s not. Did you see nick’s throw? Delete your account

 

[Pokes fan 24-7]

Landerpoke, honest question, besides Nico who on our team would be a starter on another MW team. What is this talent you’re seeing? Sorry, but we have a low-FCS offense from both talent and coaching.

When the defense sucked you could at least still identify individually talented players, Granderson, Wingard, Wilson, Ghaifan, etc. I do not see that on offense. What is the talent you’re seeing?

My point is you can't really draw any conclusions about the offense whatsoever because of the scheme, playcalling and coaching. To answer your question, though, I think MAyfield, Fort, a couple OL and WRs could be good enough to start for other MW teams. I can't really point to anything to substantiate it, but I would bet that other MWC run of the mill starter WRs and OLs would looks just as helpless and crappy if asked to run the plays we run, the routes we run and block the blocks we set our selves up to block. They are asked to do the impossible.

yes. running up the middle against a stacked box, throwing short so much especially when receiver isnt moving (hitches), no rb in the passing game, just terribly set up, we run way too many plays that had zero chance of gaining 4 yds....

The idea that coaching matters more in football = coaching matters most just does not fly. Yes, coaching does matter more in football but the effects of talent and physical ability will still dwarf the effects of coaching. Great players make average coaches great. Try this for a thought experiment. Imagine a universe where every player on wyoming's roster is now playing at Alabama for Nick Saban and vise-versa. In that instant the Bohl/Vigen System becomes unstoppable (especially in the MW) while Alabama becomes the worst P5 team. Now this is an extreme example but it illustrates how heavily player talent influences how we view coaches. In my mind great college football coaches do not distinguish themselves by being superior with x's and o's, but by building a program through long term efforts at elevating a culture of winning and competing. This palaver about scheme/play-calling is such a red herring....it distracts from what is really going on at UW (and schools like UW), namely a lack of REAL commitment ($$$) that seperates the college football elite from the rest.

When Auburn had Cam Newton for a year, they win the national championship. Two years later, the coach is fired. But coaching does matter. I think Joe Tiller could turn almost any offense into an aerial machine. But talent matters a hellavu lot more. Scott Frost is learning just how little talent he inherited. The same for Chip Kelly. Josh Allen masked the lack of talent we have. Last year, we had 27 yards rushing against Gardner Webb. Now we have a qb who can't run or throw as well as Allen. We don't have a single receiver who needs more than single coverage, average running backs, and a very limited Oline. The play calling isn't helping. I'm guessing Bohl and Vigen think opening up the playbook is going to lead to a lot of turnovers.

I agree. I think they are scared that if they open it up, TVW is going to start tossing picks left and right. We lack talent in some areas but the biggest thing is the lack of experience. We have allot of freshman and sophomores (or 1st year JUCO transfers) starting in key positions. I get that Josh Allen leaving a year early might have messed up the QB transition, but what is the excuse for the offensive line having only a pair of upperclassmen starters in a pro style system? Injuries are going to happen. You would think recruiting O linemen would be a bigger priority.

 

['PokeForLife]

Our issue starts with QB play. Young or not....TVW is Nick Smith....maybe worse......

Um no. I know we were all hoping for more from TVW, but did you see the one play Nick Smith attempted to play?
Saying TVW is worse than Nick Smith is... well it's just disrespectful.

 

[ELKMT]

There is a lot of single coverage for our WRs because of the stacked box on 1st and 2nd down. Our TEs and two of our WR are big targets. The coaches either don’t trust them to make the catch (drop in the end zone makes sense) or they don’t trust the QBs to make the throw. Price, Scott, and the entire TE group are mismatches in single coverage, not sure what we have to lose by getting the ball to them.

 

[Asmodeanreborn]

I still do not buy that we don't have talent.
Rocket Junior left TCU because of academic ineligibility but was a three star guy.
Scott was a 3 star with offers from teams like Western Michigan
Coldon was a 3 star with 10 different offers, including rival New Mexico
CJ Johnson was a 3 star with offers from 7 different teams, also including Western Michigan
Okwoli was a 3 star with offers from CU and 3 non-Wyoming MWC teams, including Boise
Austin Conway was 3 star with offers from CU and Nebraska among others, but obviously chose Basketball at Wyoming.

Those are just our Wide Receivers - and more than enough to fill ALL the WR slots. How is that "worse than the average FCS team in talent?"
Answer: IT DAMN WELL ISN'T!

 

[BJC]

If the issue is talent.....well it still falls on the same folks. "More about Jims and Joes than x's and o's" to an extent but goes both ways and both ways it points to coaches. Scary thing is how this repeats itself.............obviously a coach's job is to recruit the best talent to fit their system but also their system to get the most out of talent. Bottom 10 offense though.............no matter how you cut it...is failing. Nobody is expecting 50+ points but scoring more than they score is how you win...and we arent scoring or winning so...................painful.

We cannot fire Bohl...no way....but this O needs to get fixed with either coaches or players or both.

/end rant of obvious observations that has probably already :deadhorse1:

 

[Poke-proud]

Stoops is out as OUs DC. Hope Bohl is taking note and realizing it is alright to get rid of a OC.

 

[BJC]

Stoops is out as OUs DC. Hope Bohl is taking note and realizing it is alright to get rid of a OC.

Just saw that...wow.