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All Poke fans need to read this

The Virginian said:
A good perspective on how to rebuild a program: http://www.sbnation.com/longform/20...tball-coaches-programs-bob-stoops-bill-snyder
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Perfect! I've met Snyder. The man is amazing. And even if you didn't know of his accolades you would gain an instant respect for him. I instill a lot of what he did with my own coaching. And... I've had success.
But just looking at the rebuilding project. He was proud of his team after a 1-10 season. I'm sure fans were thinking, "Well, here we go again." And it took time and he built a dynasty. He focused on the intangibles and got everything he could out of his players. I'm sure if we heard Bohls story from building up NDSU, it would sound similar. And I'm sure he knows he's back at ground zero and has to get it to the point where he is getting everything out of his players this year.
And the fans will say, "Well, here we go again."
 
I am only about halfway through this. I guess my concern as a Wyoming fan is that many of these schools that have been "rebuilt" had or have the appeal to recruit kids. For example, current Arizona or Cal. Sure they sucked for some time, but they are still in a big conf. They have the infrastructure in place. They just needed someone like Rich Rod to come in and lead.

I am just depressed because I knew there would be growing pains this year, (ups and downs), but what I saw Saturday is a HUGE step back from what we even had last year. That was shocking to me. The team last year hung with Oregon for a little bit. Beat Air Force, trounced Fresno, played with USU, etc. What I saw Saturday is a LOOOOOOOONG rebuild.

Here is hoping that Bohl can earn that paycheck in the coming years. Dealing with losses has to be taxing.
 
djm19 said:
I am only about halfway through this. I guess my concern as a Wyoming fan is that many of these schools that have been "rebuilt" had or have the appeal to recruit kids. For example, current Arizona or Cal. Sure they sucked for some time, but they are still in a big conf. They have the infrastructure in place. They just needed someone like Rich Rod to come in and lead.

I am just depressed because I knew there would be growing pains this year, (ups and downs), but what I saw Saturday is a HUGE step back from what we even had last year. That was shocking to me. The team last year hung with Oregon for a little bit. Beat Air Force, trounced Fresno, played with USU, etc. What I saw Saturday is a LOOOOOOOONG rebuild.

Here is hoping that Bohl can earn that paycheck in the coming years. Dealing with losses has to be taxing.
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I too thought we would be better just because it is Bohl's second year. And who knows, we still might turn out to be better. But, a combination of being very green and losing players through graduation and attrition have most definitely taken a toll. I hope to see a more focused and motivated team out there on Saturday. Those youngsters now have a game under their belt.....and the veterans on the team had a week to pull their heads out.

I think Bohl is the guy for the job. At lease we didn't lose to an FCS team after a couple years of rebuilding. I bet things aren't pretty on the Wazzu or Kansas boards.
 
What a lot of people I don't think are realizing also is the fact that maybe North Dakota is a lot better than people are giving them credit for. Maybe they are the new Montana or North Dakota St this year. Doesn't mean I think we should lose at home to an FCS team but we should probably all wait and see how the next few games play out for a few teams.

Two years ago in 2013 first game of the year San Diego St. got their asses handed to them worse than we did in their first game playing E. Illinois. San Diego St. only scored one TD in that game and had to kick 4 field goals. They were beaten 40-19.

I am sure Rocky Long and the fans weren't expecting that at all. Kind of like what happened here last weekend. I am sure there was a melt down just like this one on their board. All the other teams fans in the conference were telling them how lousy they were. Well come the end of the year E. Illinois finished in 1st. place in their conference and was 11-1 in the regular season and 12-2 overall when their year finished. San Diego St. finished the year 6-2 in the MWC and 9-5 overall with a Bowl Game win.

So my point is lets give it a couple more weeks and see what happens. If we lose this week to E. Michigan then I will say there is cause for concern but if we win we may end up improving each week after and North Dakota may end up going 9-3 or 10-2 in the FCS this year so let's wait it out. That goes for me as well as I didn't think this shouldn't happen and voicing it like everyone else. Think we all should give it a couple more weeks before we "freak" out and see what plays out.

Just think by the end of the year in 2013 every one ended up realizing that E. Illinois wasn't a half bad football team and San Diego St. won a bowl game so no one needed to be embarrassed anymore or wonder what happened to their program. We may end up finding out the same thing with this. I say lets give it a few more weeks at least.

(Disclaimer: We do need to beat E. Michigan at home or none of what I said above stands :lol: )
 
So those that would jump me or Dino don't want to rage with a legendary coach who shows that it takes time to become great?
Figures...

They want the Urban Meyer approach? The Urban Meyer approach is nothing more than going after the best quality program available and moving up from there. He never took over a bad Utah squad. The previous coach McBride was a good coach and the program was already nowhere near down and out. Then he uses it as a stepping stone and walks away to the next best position available. That's hardly turning a program around. Bring these quality coaches to WYO and I'm sure it would take them 3+ years to get us back to respectability. Probably another 3+ years to makes us legit.
But we usually quite on coaches 3-5 years into the process.
I bring up who I consider to be another legendary coach all the time, VT's Frank Beamer. It took him six years of losing before he had VT winning.
Show me a coach who took over a legitimately down and out program and in one or two years had them being great? Kind of hard to do? Extremely rare. Mike Leach was a proven winner at TTU. He took over a program that is perpetually down and out. Kind of like WYO. He has done what with that program? And he probably won't get the amount of time he needs to truly turn them around.
The "WIN NOW" mentality creates more losing than winning. Programs that try either fall flat on their face. Or they set up their roster for short term bursts of greatness and then plummet back to being worse off than they were before.
So, win now? Or build the program up and sustain like most legit programs do?
 
Those that are hypersensitive and throw around stats that they can't back up like the passive aggressive approach? Figures.

Time is one thing. Lack of progress is another. LOL at the Urban Meyer statement. Sheesh. One of the best CFB coaches of the era, hands down. He just wins. This board is chalk full of people making excuses why other programs win and we don't.

Some on this board tend to take the minority opinion (i.e. fire Bohl) or quotes of context (i.e. our leadership should emulate win and not accept losing) and run with it in a hypersensitive manner where a bunch of people are pissing on the steamboat statue.

Precisely why the "where do you stand" thread was started. Please refer to that for official positions rather than hypersensitive interpretations of various out of context quotes or minority opinions.

:lol:
 
Since facts are largely ignored by some:
Bill Snyder: 1 win, 5 wins, 7 wins and Bowl game (I think most on this board have said a trajectory of that nature is acceptable meaning most agree with Coach Snyder.
Patterson at TCU: Gary Patterson 7 winning seasons in his first 8 years (6 of those T25)
Shiano (sp?) at Rutgers: 2 bad seasons then Bowls every year.
I think Tedford did a pretty good job at Cal--can't recall his record in year 3,however, so I might be wrong.
Gary Anderson had 7 wins in year 3
Jim M at CSU had a pretty good turn around in a short span
Jim Grobe at Wake had a couple of winning seasons off the bat, 2 bad seasons, then a 10+ win season
Art Briles at Baylor had 2 bad seasons and then 7 or 8 wins at Baylor
Jimbo Fisher turned around FSU pretty quickly
David Cutcliffe would be an example of a longer turn around of no bowl until the 5th year at Duke
Gary Pinkel at Missouri was 2 losing seasons then 8 wins
Rich Rod turned WVU around after 1 year and has done well in AZ
Fuente at Memphis had 1 down season then a 10 win season

but then again, we aren't interested in specifics are we? Just gross hypersensitive generalizations.
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
Those that are hypersensitive and throw around stats that they can't back up like the passive aggressive approach? Figures.

Time is one thing. Lack of progress is another. LOL at the Urban Meyer statement. Sheesh. One of the best CFB coaches of the era, hands down. He just wins. This board is chalk full of people making excuses why other programs win and we don't.

Some on this board tend to take the minority opinion (i.e. fire Bohl) or quotes of context (i.e. our leadership should emulate win and not accept losing) and run with it in a hypersensitive manner where a bunch of people are pissing on the steamboat statue.

Precisely why the "where do you stand" thread was started. Please refer to that for official positions rather than hypersensitive interpretations of various out of context quotes or minority opinions.

:lol:
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Hypersensitive? Really? I'm not the one that comes on here and pisses and moans.
Stats? Do I really need to throw records and numbers at you to prove it as fact? I can, if you really want me too.
Urban Meyer: Fact- took over an already good MAC school in Bowling Green. Lead them for two years before the next level opened up.
Fact- went to Utah. Again a good program. Generally a top 4 program in the WAC/MWC. Took the reigns for two years. Had success and move two the next level up...
Fact-takes over an already decent Florida Gators squad. Leads them to consistant winning and championships... Something they were already doing not long before he got there.
Fact- walked away out of the blue and Florida has never been the same sense. Could it be he had a drop in recruiting and knew the bottom was about to fall out at Florida and that there was no good stepping stone program readily available to take over? Or did he really just want to take a year or two off to be with his daughters?
Fact- this family man sees a door open up at a program that was already built to win despite NCAA infractions for a year. Takes it and runs with it like he has done at every stop before.
The dirty work had already been done at each of these programs. He got to reap the benefits and rides it out winning. Hence, he never has a bad year. I'm not saying he didn't help them win and maintain. And for that he is a good winning coach. But for crapsake, give me (a good HS coach) a crack at taking over a program like Florida (when he did), or Ohio State and I bet my coaching career that I could be a winning coach too. Give me a program like WYO or Wash St. And I'm asking for a six year contract, because I know I'm going to need to build and probably be one of those coaches that is known for a mediocre or less than stellar career while conducting the "dirty" work.
Fact- some coaches will always be known for having a mediocre or less than stellar career because they were let go to soon. Unless they were a lucky coach who had a program that gave patience, then you end up with a Beamer or a Snyder.
Fact- coaches than come in and succeed afterwards reap the rewards of not being the coach that had to "jump start" the program.
 
And all the rest?

Either way, you are nuts if you don't think Urban Meyer is one of the greatest college coaches of his era. Makes ya wonder, if the situations were all so great, why didn't his predecessors take those teams to the heights he did?

lol, facts are something often avoided on this board by some. :lol:
 
I'll add one more fact (which is extremely inconvenient to some on this board):

Bowling Green
1991 10-2
1992 6-3
1993 6-3-2
1994 9-2
1995 5-6
1996 4-7
1997 3-8
1998 5-6
1999 5-6
2000 2-9

Urban takes over. Yeah, real powerhouse he inherited. 6 straight losing seasons :rofl:
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
Since facts are largely ignored by some:
Bill Snyder: 1 win, 5 wins, 7 wins and Bowl game (I think most on this board have said a trajectory of that nature is acceptable meaning most agree with Coach Snyder.
Patterson at TCU: Gary Patterson 7 winning seasons in his first 8 years (6 of those T25)
Shiano (sp?) at Rutgers: 2 bad seasons then Bowls every year.
I think Tedford did a pretty good job at Cal--can't recall his record in year 3,however, so I might be wrong.
Gary Anderson had 7 wins in year 3
Jim M at CSU had a pretty good turn around in a short span
Jim Grobe at Wake had a couple of winning seasons off the bat, 2 bad seasons, then a 10+ win season
Art Briles at Baylor had 2 bad seasons and then 7 or 8 wins at Baylor
Jimbo Fisher turned around FSU pretty quickly
David Cutcliffe would be an example of a longer turn around of no bowl until the 5th year at Duke
Gary Pinkel at Missouri was 2 losing seasons then 8 wins
Rich Rod turned WVU around after 1 year and has done well in AZ
Fuente at Memphis had 1 down season then a 10 win season

but then again, we aren't interested in specifics are we? Just gross hypersensitive generalizations.
Click to expand...

Okay. Here we go.
Snyder took over a program that was in the previous three years 2-30-1.
In his first four year he went 16-26. One winning season, no bowls.
Sounds eerily familiar: VK goes 5-29 the previous three years. Glenn goes 21-26 his first four years, has one winning season, one bowl (win). People were fully supporting Snyder and almost half of our fans at this point were questioning if Glenn was the guy. Now Snyder, with support turned the corner at that point and blew the pants off WYO in the Copper Bowl. Glenn began to lag. Snyder had family, friends, alum, boosters, all fans supporting him at this point. Glenn has a few supporters, several doubters and the rest just want him gone. Just based on what I just said, who do you think will succeed? We already know the answer.
Next:
TCU's Gary Patterson. Another great guy that I know. Seriously, he was raised in Rozel Ks, literally about 15 min from my house. And being a farmer with my father-in-law became close to the Patterson after doing years of custom farm work for them. In doing so I got to meet Gary aswell.
Back on topic: he did not inherit a down and out program. He inherited a Franchione team that spanned three years of 25-10 and three straight bowls. He better be successful after taking that over.
Next: Rutgers Greg Schiano:
Do you actually look this stuff up? Two losing season? And then bowls every year!?
Let me enlighten you. Rutgers was what WYO is now. Down and Out. Previous to Schiano Rutgers went 11-44 under Shea. Best season: 5-6... The rest in that span: 2-9; 0-11; 1-10; 3-8. In fact I'd say they were far worse than WYO.
Schiano's first FOUR (4) years: 2-9; 1-11; 5-7; 4-7... Two losing seasons? But yes, after four seasons of 12-34 (would've been fired at this point at WYO) he then had his turn around and bowls every year. Nice try.
Next:Cal: Tedford
He's a legit phenom. Program was sitting at 16-39 the five prev years.
Tedford comes in and pulls off 7, 8 and 10 wins right out of the gate... But cause for concern and what actually took his job, was not a 3-9 record in his last year, but the fact that Cal's football team had THE Lowest graduation rate in the entire PAC 12 at 48%. All stretching between 2002 and 05. His first years. Someone say, "shortcuts"
Next: USU- Anderson
Dennehy before him went went 19-37. (Dirty work) the recruiting got better under Dennehy, but the play style and wins were frugal at best. In steps Young Mr. Anderson. 4-8; 4-8; getting better; 7-6... Breakout! And just up and leaves. Could there be another reason for his sudden departure other than Wiscy came calling.
Has success at Wiscy and abruptly leaves after a 59-0 shellacking. And goes to a lesser Oregon St. Program. His initial story; he wanted to be closer to family... When the truth finally came out; he was fed up with Wiscy's high academic standards! (???) which means he was caught allowing schooling for his players to be quite subpar. Wiscy wasn't going to tolerate it. And I'm sure he was given the ultimatum to change his standards or leave. And we the saw a successful coach leave in two years of a "dream job" (his words) for a not so dream job. Can you say someone was trying to take a "Tedford shortcut"...
Next: Wake Forest- Grobe...
Okay. I guess. His first four years, similar to Glenn(4-8;7-5;4-7;6-6) Grobe (6-5; 7-6; 5-7; 4-7) he's getting worse. At this point we'd be pulling the plug on him at WYO. But let's continue. Add in 05's 4-7 record and he would be gone for sure at WYO. But all that "TIME" paid off. For three years he went 28-12! Had three bowl appearances capped off with his best record of 11-3... Then he didn't maintain or sustain anything when he actually had the ball rolling and the rest of his career went down the drain with a bout here and there going a mere 23-38...
Next:Baylor-Briles
It took him 3 years before he was able to maintain. 4-8; 4-8; 7-6 and (so far so good) And he did a Snyder ploy. Schedule the worst non conf opponents you can get in those years seriously(wake Forest, NW St=FCS, UConn, Kent St/ Wash. st.)
If you read the article you know what I mean.
Next:FSU-Fisher
When you are taking over for a legend I'm not sure how it is instant success? More so, continued success. Kind of like Meyer at OSU.
Next: Missou-Pinkel
Again. Another coach that didn't take over a down and out team. Two years prior the had two bowls.
And Pinkel fits the "it takes time" persona. (4-7; 5-7; 8-5; 5-6) then 7-5; 8-5 and destined for greatness.
6 years from Mediocre, to decent to good to Great...
David Cutcliffe is the perfect example of it takes time. And he did it with Duke A NOBODY in college Football.
Next:WVU-Rich Rod
He took over for whom I would also consider football legend Don Nehlen who went 149-93-4 before Rod. He even won a bowl in his last year before Rod took over. This again would be maintaining success, nothing more.
And I don't believe 8-5; 7-6; 4-8 is considered down and out before he came to AU. Not seeng an instant success here.
Next: Memphis-Fuentes
Is part of the article above that you should read...
 
Tell me again about Meyer and Bowling Green :rofl:

lol. Then you discredit examples with nothing more than speculation and present it as fact. Example:

Dennehy before him went went 19-37. (Dirty work) the recruiting got better under Dennehy, but the play style and wins were frugal at best. In steps Young Mr. Anderson. 4-8; 4-8; getting better; 7-6... Breakout! And just up and leaves. Could there be another reason for his sudden departure other than Wiscy came calling.
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Yeah, Dennehy was just about to turn things around until Anderson took over a great situation. :rofl:

Sheesh.

Either way, most everyone on here was hoping to luck into a bowl game this year due to a bad schedule. Most everyone here was hoping for a bowl game by year 3 and hopefully challenging upper end MWC by years 4-5.

That isn't an unreal expectation for building a program.
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
Either way, most everyone on here was hoping to luck into a bowl game this year due to a bad schedule. Most everyone here was hoping for a bowl game by year 3 and hopefully challenging upper end MWC by years 4-5.

That isn't an unreal expectation for building a program.
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You realize that could still happen, right? We aren't eliminated from bowl consideration.
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
Tell me again about Meyer and Bowling Green :rofl:

lol. Then you discredit examples with nothing more than speculation and present it as fact. Example:

Dennehy before him went went 19-37. (Dirty work) the recruiting got better under Dennehy, but the play style and wins were frugal at best. In steps Young Mr. Anderson. 4-8; 4-8; getting better; 7-6... Breakout! And just up and leaves. Could there be another reason for his sudden departure other than Wiscy came calling.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Dennehy was just about to turn things around until Anderson took over a great situation. :rofl:

Sheesh.

Either way, most everyone on here was hoping to luck into a bowl game this year due to a bad schedule. Most everyone here was hoping for a bowl game by year 3 and hopefully challenging upper end MWC by years 4-5.

That isn't an unreal expectation for building a program.
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I'll give you the credit on Meyer and BGSU. I was thinking of Brandon being before him for some reason.
Laugh all you want. But you can't refute anything. I have you numbers. I gave you facts that came out in sanctions, I gave you facts from the media. You got me on BGSU. I'll admit it. I don't see you refuting why Anderson left his "dream job" due to academics... Which probably happened at USU which is why when you have EVERYONE back and you jump, you hope it's a move up so no one would question your move. But a move down. Like Wiscy to OSU and it became known.
You seriously gave me a list. I was able to go one at a time and you land on Dennehy the coach before the coach on your list.
You gave me a list of coaches you thought supported your stance... Turns out. Snyder, Cutcliffe, Briles and Fuentes are more on my standpoint than anything.
Do you have any facts on any of these guys?

By the way... :rofl:
Schiano only two losing seasons before he had bowls every year.... Can't admit when you're wrong, huh?
 
kansasCowboy said:
You got me on BGSU. I'll admit it.
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;)

kansasCowboy said:
I don't see you refuting why Anderson left his "dream job" due to academics... Which probably happened at USU which is why when you have EVERYONE back and you jump, you hope it's a move up so no one would question your move. But a move down. Like Wiscy to OSU and it became known.
Click to expand...

WTH does this have to do with the price of tea in China? He took a bad USU team and made them good in a short period of time.

kansasCowboy said:
You gave me a list of coaches you thought supported your stance... Turns out. Snyder, Cutcliffe, Briles and Fuentes are more on my standpoint than anything.
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I just picked out one to refute. Fuente is another example. They won 5 games in the 3 years before he got there and then won 10 games in his 3rd year.

Baylor was terrible until Briles got there. He had them in a bowl game in his 3rd year.

You throw a bunch of crap out there like he scheduled this and took over for that makes your argument weak at best. These coaches took over terrible programs and made bowl games in their 3rd year. Quit making a bunch of crap excuses why other programs can start succeeding within a few years.

kansasCowboy said:
Schiano only two losing seasons before he had bowls every year.... Can't admit when you're wrong, huh?
Click to expand...

I thought I remembered his 5 win year as a bowl year, but my old memory didn't serve me well on that one.
 
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