Vaccine Requirements are Getting Out of Hand

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laxwyo
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WestWYOPoke wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:47 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:59 pm
WestWYOPoke wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:23 am In fact, quite the opposite! I'm pointing out that people that aren't experts in a medical or related field aren't any more qualified to cast doubt than any one else.
Nor are people that aren't experts in a medical or related field qualified to discredit any theory related to COVID or the vaccines, yet here we are.

It has been fairly easy to differentiate posters' political views based on this thread but certainly not easy to identify sound logic as to why vaccine mandates are acceptable let alone encouraged.
Personally, I disagree with any sort of government mandate. If a private company wants to mandate, that's their prerogative.

My stance on all this isn't based on anything political, it's based on what the science and the experts say. The vast majority of experts (and that data supporting them) says one thing right now. If those experts and supporting data start to say something else, that's what I'll support. Simple as that.
By your Sh#t logic, since the government forced the private business to do it, it’s ok.
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WestWYOPoke
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laxwyo wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:24 pm
WestWYOPoke wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:47 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:59 pm
WestWYOPoke wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:23 am In fact, quite the opposite! I'm pointing out that people that aren't experts in a medical or related field aren't any more qualified to cast doubt than any one else.
Nor are people that aren't experts in a medical or related field qualified to discredit any theory related to COVID or the vaccines, yet here we are.

It has been fairly easy to differentiate posters' political views based on this thread but certainly not easy to identify sound logic as to why vaccine mandates are acceptable let alone encouraged.
Personally, I disagree with any sort of government mandate. If a private company wants to mandate, that's their prerogative.

My stance on all this isn't based on anything political, it's based on what the science and the experts say. The vast majority of experts (and that data supporting them) says one thing right now. If those experts and supporting data start to say something else, that's what I'll support. Simple as that.
By your Sh#t logic, since the government forced the private business to do it, it’s ok.
I don't know what the big deal is, it isn't even a mandate. Talk about grasping to politicized taking points.

No one is being forced to be vaccinated, if they don't want the vaccine they just need weekly testing. Or find a new job. It's still a choice. And again, it's all based off the best available science. Vaccine = extremely reduced risk of hospitalization and/or death.
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laxwyo
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WestWYOPoke wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:49 pm
laxwyo wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:24 pm
WestWYOPoke wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:47 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:59 pm
WestWYOPoke wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:23 am In fact, quite the opposite! I'm pointing out that people that aren't experts in a medical or related field aren't any more qualified to cast doubt than any one else.
Nor are people that aren't experts in a medical or related field qualified to discredit any theory related to COVID or the vaccines, yet here we are.

It has been fairly easy to differentiate posters' political views based on this thread but certainly not easy to identify sound logic as to why vaccine mandates are acceptable let alone encouraged.
Personally, I disagree with any sort of government mandate. If a private company wants to mandate, that's their prerogative.

My stance on all this isn't based on anything political, it's based on what the science and the experts say. The vast majority of experts (and that data supporting them) says one thing right now. If those experts and supporting data start to say something else, that's what I'll support. Simple as that.
By your Sh#t logic, since the government forced the private business to do it, it’s ok.
I don't know what the big deal is, it isn't even a mandate. Talk about grasping to politicized taking points.

No one is being forced to be vaccinated, if they don't want the vaccine they just need weekly testing. Or find a new job. It's still a choice. And again, it's all based off the best available science. Vaccine = extremely reduced risk of hospitalization and/or death.
Can you even listen to yourself?? “No one is being forced to be vaccinated, they just need ….” You have a major cognitive issue. The circles you’re running in your brain to justify it to yourself is astounding. You’re very dangerous.
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WestWYOPoke
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laxwyo wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:25 am
WestWYOPoke wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:49 pm
laxwyo wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:24 pm
WestWYOPoke wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:47 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:59 pm
WestWYOPoke wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:23 am In fact, quite the opposite! I'm pointing out that people that aren't experts in a medical or related field aren't any more qualified to cast doubt than any one else.
Nor are people that aren't experts in a medical or related field qualified to discredit any theory related to COVID or the vaccines, yet here we are.

It has been fairly easy to differentiate posters' political views based on this thread but certainly not easy to identify sound logic as to why vaccine mandates are acceptable let alone encouraged.
Personally, I disagree with any sort of government mandate. If a private company wants to mandate, that's their prerogative.

My stance on all this isn't based on anything political, it's based on what the science and the experts say. The vast majority of experts (and that data supporting them) says one thing right now. If those experts and supporting data start to say something else, that's what I'll support. Simple as that.
By your Sh#t logic, since the government forced the private business to do it, it’s ok.
I don't know what the big deal is, it isn't even a mandate. Talk about grasping to politicized taking points.

No one is being forced to be vaccinated, if they don't want the vaccine they just need weekly testing. Or find a new job. It's still a choice. And again, it's all based off the best available science. Vaccine = extremely reduced risk of hospitalization and/or death.
Can you even listen to yourself?? “No one is being forced to be vaccinated, they just need ….” You have a major cognitive issue. The circles you’re running in your brain to justify it to yourself is astounding. You’re very dangerous.
No circles here, it all makes sense to me. Most people's perceptions of what they think their rights are are grossly false.

A mandate would be "get the vaccine or go to jail" or "get the vaccine or we'll tie you up and give it to you"... this isn't that.
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laxwyo
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WestWYOPoke wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:36 pm
laxwyo wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:25 am
WestWYOPoke wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:49 pm
laxwyo wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:24 pm
WestWYOPoke wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:47 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:59 pm
WestWYOPoke wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:23 am In fact, quite the opposite! I'm pointing out that people that aren't experts in a medical or related field aren't any more qualified to cast doubt than any one else.
Nor are people that aren't experts in a medical or related field qualified to discredit any theory related to COVID or the vaccines, yet here we are.

It has been fairly easy to differentiate posters' political views based on this thread but certainly not easy to identify sound logic as to why vaccine mandates are acceptable let alone encouraged.
Personally, I disagree with any sort of government mandate. If a private company wants to mandate, that's their prerogative.

My stance on all this isn't based on anything political, it's based on what the science and the experts say. The vast majority of experts (and that data supporting them) says one thing right now. If those experts and supporting data start to say something else, that's what I'll support. Simple as that.
By your Sh#t logic, since the government forced the private business to do it, it’s ok.
I don't know what the big deal is, it isn't even a mandate. Talk about grasping to politicized taking points.

No one is being forced to be vaccinated, if they don't want the vaccine they just need weekly testing. Or find a new job. It's still a choice. And again, it's all based off the best available science. Vaccine = extremely reduced risk of hospitalization and/or death.
Can you even listen to yourself?? “No one is being forced to be vaccinated, they just need ….” You have a major cognitive issue. The circles you’re running in your brain to justify it to yourself is astounding. You’re very dangerous.
No circles here, it all makes sense to me. Most people's perceptions of what they think their rights are are grossly false.

A mandate would be "get the vaccine or go to jail" or "get the vaccine or we'll tie you up and give it to you"... this isn't that.
“Most people’s perceptions of what they think their rights are are grossly false”
You would be right at home in any tyrant’s society. You are an terrible person and don’t deserve to be called an American. The government grants no rights, it’s there to protect them instead of trample them.
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laxwyo
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Whoa whoa , we didn’t tell them they had to get the vaccine. Private business is telling them to get the vaccine after we told them we’d fine them if they didn’t make their employees get it.

-a lunatic on the wyonation message board
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WestWYOPoke
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No one is saying they have to get the vaccine, they can just get tested instead.
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WestWYOPoke
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laxwyo wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:01 pm
“Most people’s perceptions of what they think their rights are are grossly false”
You would be right at home in any tyrant’s society. You are an terrible person and don’t deserve to be called an American. The government grants no rights, it’s there to protect them instead of trample them.
That's aggressive considering you've never met me. Again, I'm not even a liberal, I'm a centrist. So there are plenty of people in this country that think similar or more extreme than me. What makes you the authority on what is our isn't American?

My statement in people's perceptions of rights pertains to people thinking they can do whatever they want, when they want. But one person's rights shouldn't infringe on another's. That statement can be used to argue either side of this issue.
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laxwyo
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WestWYOPoke wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:12 pm
laxwyo wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:01 pm
“Most people’s perceptions of what they think their rights are are grossly false”
You would be right at home in any tyrant’s society. You are an terrible person and don’t deserve to be called an American. The government grants no rights, it’s there to protect them instead of trample them.
That's aggressive considering you've never met me. Again, I'm not even a liberal, I'm a centrist. So there are plenty of people in this country that think similar or more extreme than me. What makes you the authority on what is our isn't American?

My statement in people's perceptions of rights pertains to people thinking they can do whatever they want, when they want. But one person's rights shouldn't infringe on another's. That statement can be used to argue either side of this issue.
Being unvaccinated infringes on others rights more than forced medical treatment?? Lol

You’re not a centrist. You’re an extremist and your views are dangerous and very anti American. The mental gymnastics you’re going through are comical.
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WestWYOPoke
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laxwyo wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:04 pm
WestWYOPoke wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:12 pm
laxwyo wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:01 pm
“Most people’s perceptions of what they think their rights are are grossly false”
You would be right at home in any tyrant’s society. You are an terrible person and don’t deserve to be called an American. The government grants no rights, it’s there to protect them instead of trample them.
That's aggressive considering you've never met me. Again, I'm not even a liberal, I'm a centrist. So there are plenty of people in this country that think similar or more extreme than me. What makes you the authority on what is our isn't American?

My statement in people's perceptions of rights pertains to people thinking they can do whatever they want, when they want. But one person's rights shouldn't infringe on another's. That statement can be used to argue either side of this issue.
Being unvaccinated infringes on others rights more than forced medical treatment?? Lol

You’re not a centrist. You’re an extremist and your views are dangerous and very anti American. The mental gymnastics you’re going through are comical.
You're doing a great job of portraying me to be something I'm not. And attributing statements to me that I'm not saying.

A) in this very thread I've stated that I don't agree with a mandate, no one should tell someone else what they can do with their body. I feel that way whether we're talking abortion, vaccination or any other medical decision.

B) I never said (as you've implied) that there should be forced medical treatment. Vaccine, or test, or quit... none of that equates to forced medical treatment.

C) Just because my view of what changes I want to see with our country contradicts with what changes you want doesn't make either of us more American than the other. Standing by my beliefs is the American way, me kowtowing to your point of view would be un-American.

D) in the end, I'm just as much of an American as you are, sorry that displeases you. You don't have to like it, but you have to live with it.

E) if you think I'M an extremist... you need to get out more.
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ragtimejoe1
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WestWYOPoke wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:36 pm
No circles here, it all makes sense to me. Most people's perceptions of what they think their rights are are grossly false.

A mandate would be "get the vaccine or go to jail" or "get the vaccine or we'll tie you up and give it to you"... this isn't that.
Get the vaccine or lose your livelihood (which is occurring) is pretty much a mandate. No worker protection for taking hours to get tested; i.e. work can fire you for going to get tested if you do it during work hours (which many testing sites are only open during business hours) is pretty much a mandate.

The vaccine does not stop the spread. The vaccine does not stop you from contracting COVID. Basic science tells us that if contract COVID and it is an active infection, variants have the opportunity to pop up thus vaccines can't stop new variants. Data suggests that the vaccine can reduce severe cases but so does natural immunity. Why force someone who recovered from COVID to get the vaccine? There is literally no science to support any of that.

Testing non-vaccinated is nothing more than harassment of the non-vaccinated. They are no more likely to be spreading the disease than the vaccinated. If you institute a testing requirement, then science dictates you test everyone weekly.

Then again, none of this is about science, is it?
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If you support this mandate junk you are a fascist and you hate freedom.
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Articles like this is why the liberal media and the Biden administration are losing people on vaccines. https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/br ... 0/2492577/ There are thousands of these types of articles almost daily.

Reading through the first paragraph, it makes it sound as if the vaccines are working marvelously. Only .61% of all the people vaccinated account for breakthrough cases! People are getting wiser to this manipulative presentation of data. Notice how they didn't present total number of unvaccinated and the corresponding % of infections?

To their credit, further down in the article, they do cite that the vaccinated account for 40% of the current COVID cases!!!! From a scientific standpoint, proper epidemiological statistics need to be conducted to determine if that is even statistically significant and how that translates to reduced risk. Even without proper vetting, it is ABUNDANTLY clear the vaccines are not stopping the virus.

The evidence still suggests that the vaccines reduce hospitalizations and death, but that is personal protection not population protection. HUGE difference. Something else is going on here.
"There's always excuses for a sports program not winning or academic program not succeeding. And it's not that the excuses aren't true; it's that they aren't sufficient," --Sternberg
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LanderPoke
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:08 am Articles like this is why the liberal media and the Biden administration are losing people on vaccines. https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/br ... 0/2492577/ There are thousands of these types of articles almost daily.

Reading through the first paragraph, it makes it sound as if the vaccines are working marvelously. Only .61% of all the people vaccinated account for breakthrough cases! People are getting wiser to this manipulative presentation of data. Notice how they didn't present total number of unvaccinated and the corresponding % of infections?

To their credit, further down in the article, they do cite that the vaccinated account for 40% of the current COVID cases!!!! From a scientific standpoint, proper epidemiological statistics need to be conducted to determine if that is even statistically significant and how that translates to reduced risk. Even without proper vetting, it is ABUNDANTLY clear the vaccines are not stopping the virus.

The evidence still suggests that the vaccines reduce hospitalizations and death, but that is personal protection not population protection. HUGE difference. Something else is going on here.
Good post. Statistics can really be manipulated to support one's position. If you look at the numbers coming out of Israel, the first major country to vaccinate most of their population, it's not pretty. Vaccine effectiveness really wanes with time. Seems that is coming our way in a few months (Europe, too), already kind of has in the southern USA. Not going to be pretty.
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LanderPoke wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:48 am
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:08 am Articles like this is why the liberal media and the Biden administration are losing people on vaccines. https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/br ... 0/2492577/ There are thousands of these types of articles almost daily.

Reading through the first paragraph, it makes it sound as if the vaccines are working marvelously. Only .61% of all the people vaccinated account for breakthrough cases! People are getting wiser to this manipulative presentation of data. Notice how they didn't present total number of unvaccinated and the corresponding % of infections?

To their credit, further down in the article, they do cite that the vaccinated account for 40% of the current COVID cases!!!! From a scientific standpoint, proper epidemiological statistics need to be conducted to determine if that is even statistically significant and how that translates to reduced risk. Even without proper vetting, it is ABUNDANTLY clear the vaccines are not stopping the virus.

The evidence still suggests that the vaccines reduce hospitalizations and death, but that is personal protection not population protection. HUGE difference. Something else is going on here.
Good post. Statistics can really be manipulated to support one's position. If you look at the numbers coming out of Israel, the first major country to vaccinate most of their population, it's not pretty. Vaccine effectiveness really wanes with time. Seems that is coming our way in a few months (Europe, too), already kind of has in the southern USA. Not going to be pretty.
No doubt. 80% of their population fully vaccinated and they have the highest rates of COVID infections that they've had since the pandemic began.

There is no doubt that the COVID virus will continue through next year at minimum. Biden et al. are just playing a nasty game of politics. They are trying to set the stage prior to the mid-term election for placing blame on unvaccinated republicans. COVID was bad for Trump and will be bad for Biden. They are ignoring science and playing politics for the mid-terms. Sickening really.
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:35 am
No doubt. 80% of their population fully vaccinated and they have the highest rates of COVID infections that they've had since the pandemic began.
Not even close. 56% of Israel was fully vaccinated as of August 31st. 61% Had received the first dose.

As you may also know, Israel has over 1,000 people per square mile (compared to 94 for the U.S.), which also doesn't help.

We have no idea what percentage is required to reach herd immunity for COVID, but it's definitely not lower than 70%, and likely it's closer to 90, a number there's no way in hell we'll reach.
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A couple of stories:
This one I guess has had people all riled up that the atlantic would have the gall to print such heresy about mask mandates for children. Its fairly short and details studies that the "follow the science" crowd are intentionally ignoring.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... de/619952/

Also, this video is long, so I wish I could give a ten minute or so section to listen to, but I feel like all of it is good (I listened to it on 2x speed). First half talks about masking, second half about vaccines, boosters, and the mandate from Biden.


tldr: Nobody except us seem to think masking kids is a good thing. Vaccine mandates are an idiotic way to convince people to take the vaccine. Maybe for old people with comorbidities a third dose is reasonable, but for the vast majority of people the more doses you get, the higher the side effect profile and risk in a subset of people that the risks of serious disease is dwindling significantly.
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Asmodeanreborn wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:02 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:35 am
No doubt. 80% of their population fully vaccinated and they have the highest rates of COVID infections that they've had since the pandemic began.
Not even close. 56% of Israel was fully vaccinated as of August 31st. 61% Had received the first dose.

As you may also know, Israel has over 1,000 people per square mile (compared to 94 for the U.S.), which also doesn't help.

We have no idea what percentage is required to reach herd immunity for COVID, but it's definitely not lower than 70%, and likely it's closer to 90, a number there's no way in hell we'll reach.
80% of those eligible for vaccine have been vaccinated. I'm pretty certain your calculations include those who are ineligible for vaccines. 80% rate for the eligible is pretty good and highlights how vaccines won't stop the spread of COVID. I'm surprised the science is being so misrepresented by liberal politicians and media.
"There's always excuses for a sports program not winning or academic program not succeeding. And it's not that the excuses aren't true; it's that they aren't sufficient," --Sternberg
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'PokeForLife wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:25 pm A couple of stories:
This one I guess has had people all riled up that the atlantic would have the gall to print such heresy about mask mandates for children. Its fairly short and details studies that the "follow the science" crowd are intentionally ignoring.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... de/619952/

Also, this video is long, so I wish I could give a ten minute or so section to listen to, but I feel like all of it is good (I listened to it on 2x speed). First half talks about masking, second half about vaccines, boosters, and the mandate from Biden.


tldr: Nobody except us seem to think masking kids is a good thing. Vaccine mandates are an idiotic way to convince people to take the vaccine. Maybe for old people with comorbidities a third dose is reasonable, but for the vast majority of people the more doses you get, the higher the side effect profile and risk in a subset of people that the risks of serious disease is dwindling significantly.
All while signing away your rights for liability should Joe Biden be wrong. This is absolutely insane.

BTW, apparently the science says that masks are only required if you are a non-elite as evidence by the met gala and whatever hollywood award show was just on. Another great example of the liberal left following the science. :lol:
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:17 am
Asmodeanreborn wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:02 pm Not even close. 56% of Israel was fully vaccinated as of August 31st. 61% Had received the first dose.

As you may also know, Israel has over 1,000 people per square mile (compared to 94 for the U.S.), which also doesn't help.

We have no idea what percentage is required to reach herd immunity for COVID, but it's definitely not lower than 70%, and likely it's closer to 90, a number there's no way in hell we'll reach.
80% of those eligible for vaccine have been vaccinated. I'm pretty certain your calculations include those who are ineligible for vaccines. 80% rate for the eligible is pretty good and highlights how vaccines won't stop the spread of COVID. I'm surprised the science is being so misrepresented by liberal politicians and media.
Wow. If anybody's misrepresenting anything here, it's the talk about 80%. "Eligible" doesn't mean Sh#t. You need 70-90% TOTAL. Of every single person. The virus doesn't give a crap about some arbitrary human rules.

"Liberal media."
You need to stop reading/listening to whomever you're getting your information from, because it would appear the "liberal media" stays closer to the truth than your sources.
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