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Wyoming @ SMU

johnywyo said:
Shyatt nailed it, he got out coached and we got outplayed after a nice 6 point lead about 9 minutes out. Time out, play selection backdoor ally oop over their athletic bigs to JA? Bad design, our offense wilted and our Defense didn't show for the last part of the second half. 18-1 run, we essentially played their game at their place with the crowd in our face. The pundits now are showing the true colors, are you kidding me this Mustang team is very talented and deep especially in the paint. We showed our tendency to not rebound at crucial points and Grab's couldn't cover Moore. Nance forgot how to score and we could not find a way to get him to contribute. The game within the game is we have had our way with some decent teams at home and when you play in a place like Moody and a sellout, it's tough. We didn't get the job done and Shyatt has to look in the mirror and figure out how to win these road games against legitimate teams. We are fine, and have a very solid team and a decent bench. What we are lacking is another athletic scoring BIG. Something we've known for a very long time we have fundamentally needed.
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This! We just fell apart after going up by 6. Seller's got beat for a couple easy shots, SMU started hitting everything and Wyoming started missing everything.

Even the Fennis teams had shitty games on the road. Much worse than this outing.
 
I agree, Cowduck. I really don't like our offense and I never have. Our offense tends to lead to a lot of threes. If we are not hitting our threes like we haven't been, then the d just sits back in a zone clogs the middle. SMU sagged back and guarded the paint and the drive. If we are not hitting the threes then we've got to figure out a way to get the ball in closer to the hoop.
 
Lol all this arguing over a loss on the road to a Larry Brown coached team!

Schroyer may have killed us, but Shyatt has built us back up.
 
Cowduck said:
I've had time to process this one, and all I can say is the team's Achilles heel is as it always has been: we have a hard time getting to the rack against good defensive teams. We shot 6 FTs in this game compared to SMU's 23, and a bit of that might be hometown officiating (Hi, Dave Hall!) but most of it is that we couldn't get anything going to the rim. It was especially odd how hard of a time we had getting Larry the ball in anything resembling decent post position. I trust our staff will watch the tape and make adjustments, but nothing about this performance was anything new to those of us who have watched the team in the Shyatt era.
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Agreed about what happened at SMU. We never had anything going to the rim.

I also agree that we rarely have dribble penetration from our perimeter players under Shyatt, but disagree that we struggle getting the ball to Nance in the post against better teams. Nance's performance was an anomaly. The Pokes actually are fairly proficient at getting him the ball in a variety of spots. He is not necessarily only effective as a back to the basket scorer, but also catching it on the elbow and creating in a variety of ways. He didn't do that against SMU. He didn't even look to try to make a move. Not sure what was going on there, but I don't think it was representative of Shyatt's strategy or a team weakness.

We will never be incredibly proficient at attacking the glass of the bounce with this roster. Grabau, Hankerson, Lieberman, and McManeman lack the quickness to get by high level defenders. As a result, we try to generate offense at the rim via screens, handoffs, and quick cuts to the rim along with the orbit of Nance pulling defenders his way. Without Nance being a factor, everything gets much more difficult as we saw against SMU.
 
LanderPoke said:
I agree, Cowduck. I really don't like our offense and I never have. Our offense tends to lead to a lot of threes. If we are not hitting our threes like we haven't been, then the d just sits back in a zone clogs the middle. SMU sagged back and guarded the paint and the drive. If we are not hitting the threes then we've got to figure out a way to get the ball in closer to the hoop.
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What was your favorite offense at UW?

Personally, Shyatt's is the best I have seen in a very long time. It does result in a lot of perimeter shots, but it also generates a lot of clean looks at the rim.

Wyoming is currently 4th in the country in eFG% and 2nd in Assists/Field Goals Made (those are out of 351 teams). That means they are moving the basketball and exhibiting strong off the ball movement to generate quality looks. The Pokes don't make a ton of tough shots or high level individual creation (nobody on our roster is going to pull a Nic Moore), so those numbers reflect a quality offensive gameplan.

If there is a beef with Shyatt, IMO, it should only be about recruiting. We simply lack either size or athleticism at many roster spots relative to the teams we aspire to compete with (NCAA at-large selections).

I don't understand complaints about the offense. Truthfully, the Pokes are a better offensive team than they are a defensive team. Our low tempo and decision to eschew offensive rebounds to prevent transition points gives the impression of a strong defense, but in reality we are just ok on that side of the ball. KenPom ratings for Wyoming are 59 for offense and 69 for defense, but like I mentioned those are skewed by strategic choices. With our eFG%, if we attacked the offensive glass this is a clear top 30/40 type team offensively (KenPom's ratings are opponent adjusted, so even a Top 5 productivity might be rated about 40 with a schedule like ours), while we would likely slip below the Top 100 defensively.

We lack lateral quickness on the perimeter (other than Adams) as was demonstrated by the size of Nic Moore's eyes (approximately a mile wide) every time he saw Grabau was going to try to contain him coming off the pick and roll. Not a lot of length either on the perimeter. I think the Pokes play pretty sound defense, but we lack the athletes to be disruptive in the way that someone like SDSU is.
 
I'm not a basketball X's and O's guy because I only played through Soph year in HS, so I don't really know which offense would be better. I guess I should shut my mouth because I don't have any useful suggestions other than shoot the ball better, but the thing I hate is that we don't even try to get offensive rebounds at all. Those are some of the easiest point that can be had and they offer extra possessions.
 
We had a bad 10 minutes. The only way to counter this is to have a phenomenal 30 minutes and we were average. I hate to break it to everyone but this won't be the last loss. I do love this team. Let's just win the MW and we won't have to worry about our good wins/ bad losses
 
NowherePoke said:
LanderPoke said:
I agree, Cowduck. I really don't like our offense and I never have. Our offense tends to lead to a lot of threes. If we are not hitting our threes like we haven't been, then the d just sits back in a zone clogs the middle. SMU sagged back and guarded the paint and the drive. If we are not hitting the threes then we've got to figure out a way to get the ball in closer to the hoop.
Click to expand...


What was your favorite offense at UW?

Personally, Shyatt's is the best I have seen in a very long time. It does result in a lot of perimeter shots, but it also generates a lot of clean looks at the rim.

Wyoming is currently 4th in the country in eFG% and 2nd in Assists/Field Goals Made (those are out of 351 teams). That means they are moving the basketball and exhibiting strong off the ball movement to generate quality looks. The Pokes don't make a ton of tough shots or high level individual creation (nobody on our roster is going to pull a Nic Moore), so those numbers reflect a quality offensive gameplan.

If there is a beef with Shyatt, IMO, it should only be about recruiting. We simply lack either size or athleticism at many roster spots relative to the teams we aspire to compete with (NCAA at-large selections).

I don't understand complaints about the offense. Truthfully, the Pokes are a better offensive team than they are a defensive team. Our low tempo and decision to eschew offensive rebounds to prevent transition points gives the impression of a strong defense, but in reality we are just ok on that side of the ball. KenPom ratings for Wyoming are 59 for offense and 69 for defense, but like I mentioned those are skewed by strategic choices. With our eFG%, if we attacked the offensive glass this is a clear top 30/40 type team offensively (KenPom's ratings are opponent adjusted, so even a Top 5 productivity might be rated about 40 with a schedule like ours), while we would likely slip below the Top 100 defensively.

We lack lateral quickness on the perimeter (other than Adams) as was demonstrated by the size of Nic Moore's eyes (approximately a mile wide) every time he saw Grabau was going to try to contain him coming off the pick and roll. Not a lot of length either on the perimeter. I think the Pokes play pretty sound defense, but we lack the athletes to be disruptive in the way that someone like SDSU is.
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ALL OF THIS +1 Remember Mcclain's offense of let the players figure it out? Or Heath's let me just yell at them technique then throw them under the bus? Goddamn the only offense we've really seen in the past has been player created by Bailey, Ewing, or Muojeke. WE HAVE an offense now, that's fucking HUGE. We CHANGE DEFENSE in games now. Even if its just to zone. These are things we didn't have in the past without it going to total shit fast.
 
If Shyatt can load up on some more guns and horses we are gonna be rocking and rollin!! :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

BIG if right now.....that's why I think this season is sooooooo critical.
 
NowherePoke said:
LanderPoke said:
I agree, Cowduck. I really don't like our offense and I never have. Our offense tends to lead to a lot of threes. If we are not hitting our threes like we haven't been, then the d just sits back in a zone clogs the middle. SMU sagged back and guarded the paint and the drive. If we are not hitting the threes then we've got to figure out a way to get the ball in closer to the hoop.
Click to expand...


What was your favorite offense at UW?

Personally, Shyatt's is the best I have seen in a very long time. It does result in a lot of perimeter shots, but it also generates a lot of clean looks at the rim.

Wyoming is currently 4th in the country in eFG% and 2nd in Assists/Field Goals Made (those are out of 351 teams). That means they are moving the basketball and exhibiting strong off the ball movement to generate quality looks. The Pokes don't make a ton of tough shots or high level individual creation (nobody on our roster is going to pull a Nic Moore), so those numbers reflect a quality offensive gameplan.

If there is a beef with Shyatt, IMO, it should only be about recruiting. We simply lack either size or athleticism at many roster spots relative to the teams we aspire to compete with (NCAA at-large selections).

I don't understand complaints about the offense. Truthfully, the Pokes are a better offensive team than they are a defensive team. Our low tempo and decision to eschew offensive rebounds to prevent transition points gives the impression of a strong defense, but in reality we are just ok on that side of the ball. KenPom ratings for Wyoming are 59 for offense and 69 for defense, but like I mentioned those are skewed by strategic choices. With our eFG%, if we attacked the offensive glass this is a clear top 30/40 type team offensively (KenPom's ratings are opponent adjusted, so even a Top 5 productivity might be rated about 40 with a schedule like ours), while we would likely slip below the Top 100 defensively.

We lack lateral quickness on the perimeter (other than Adams) as was demonstrated by the size of Nic Moore's eyes (approximately a mile wide) every time he saw Grabau was going to try to contain him coming off the pick and roll. Not a lot of length either on the perimeter. I think the Pokes play pretty sound defense, but we lack the athletes to be disruptive in the way that someone like SDSU is.
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I don't really have a problem, system-wise, with what's going on now. I like the bones of Shyatt's offense better than I like "one-game" or "dribble-drive motion" or whatever McClain's offense was called. And I definitely, definitely like it better than the one-in-four-out motion under Schroyer, mostly because I don't think Schroyer was a very good motion offense coach. I just wish we had a better game plan for creating penetration when teams sag off of the backcourt weave or pick and roll, which seem to be how we initiate every possession. I'm not enough of a basketball guy to know exactly what the solution is, but it just seems like the counter to teams sagging is to shoot over them, but we weirdly have a hard time getting open looks from three while we also have problems getting into the lane.

I will say that I thought maybe we would see more of the high-low post game, it seems like in previous games we had success getting entry into the low post from the high post with Cooke making the pass, perhaps SMU's frontcourt size made it hard to get in there that way.
 
johnywyo said:
Shyatt nailed it, he got out coached and we got outplayed after a nice 6 point lead about 9 minutes out. Time out, play selection backdoor ally oop over their athletic bigs to JA? Bad design, our offense wilted and our Defense didn't show for the last part of the second half. 18-1 run, we essentially played their game at their place with the crowd in our face. The pundits now are showing the true colors, are you kidding me this Mustang team is very talented and deep especially in the paint. We showed our tendency to not rebound at crucial points and Grab's couldn't cover Moore. Nance forgot how to score and we could not find a way to get him to contribute.
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One of the big reasons we lost the game. And why I'm looking forward to seeing what a quick/fast/ATHLETIC kid like Austin Conway can do on the defensive end in the years to come to disrupt talented/ATHLETIC opposing point guards. We've been getting killed there for over three years now. Scoring in double digits means nothing if you're getting torched on the defensive end. :whistle: [/rant off]

Was VERY disappointed with the Pokes' inability to get Nance the ball on the blocks for most of the game. I likened this game to Billy G. disappearing against Georgetown in the NCAA tourney. That's what it looked and felt like.

Chance to redeem at Cal. Hope they're prepared.
 
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