Why All The Bitching About Laramie Attendance?

[elfletcho]

When UNLV beat us by 2 on the Dalron Johnson prayer from mid-court in 2001 (ultimately cost us the outright MWC championship), we had an attendance of 8,207. That game tipped off at 10:30pm on Monday, February 6, 2001.

I'm trying to find more.

You spelled his name wrong, its Dalron EFFING Johnson.

 

[LanderPoke]

When UNLV beat us by 2 on the Dalron Johnson prayer from mid-court in 2001 (ultimately cost us the outright MWC championship), we had an attendance of 8,207. That game tipped off at 10:30pm on Monday, February 6, 2001.

I'm trying to find more.

8,207 extremely quiet people, when that clock read 0.00. That was the worst stomach punch loss I've ever experienced in person.

Then he jumped up onto the scorer's table and fist pumped like a bitch. I hate Dalron. He beat us on a bank shot buzzer beater @ UNLV, too if I'm not mistaken. He killed us

 

[wyopig]

When UNLV beat us by 2 on the Dalron Johnson prayer from mid-court in 2001 (ultimately cost us the outright MWC championship), we had an attendance of 8,207. That game tipped off at 10:30pm on Monday, February 6, 2001.

I'm trying to find more.

8,207 extremely quiet people, when that clock read 0.00. That was the worst stomach punch loss I've ever experienced in person.

Then he jumped up onto the scorer's table and fist pumped like a bitch. I hate Dalron. He beat us on a bank shot buzzer beater @ UNLV, too if I'm not mistaken. He killed us

I didn't remember if he hit the game winning shot in Vegas, but I do remember that we let some no-name, 3-ppg punk drop almost 50 on us in a 4-point loss. We got swept by a very mediocre Vegas team and still shared the MWC title that year.

EDIT: I looked it up, and my post was a little exaggerated. Trevor Diggs scored 49 on us that night. He averaged 14 ppg on the season, which was actually 2nd on the squad - behind Kambala and just ahead of Dalron. Bailey scored 34 that night. He was always pretty good in the T&M.

 

[Wyovanian]

Just had a few thoughts...Laramie, is basically a town of 20,000 people (yes the census includes the student population). When the students aren't in town (Semester break, Summer, etc.), Laramie is the size of Sheridan, but poorer.

And posters on this board expect 1/4 of that population to be regular basketball season ticket holders? That's ridiculous. Also given the fact that probably another 1/4 of the population lives at poverty or similar level, it becomes even more evident how ridiculous it is.

In order for Wyoming basketball to have great attendance, Cheyenne is the community that really needs to step up. Oh, and when the students are back in Laramie, they need to step up too. Just some thoughts.

Um, how was it then, back in 1986-89 we could draw 12-14K per game with around 9,000 fewer people? Are you saying the town we grew up in, without college students only had about 14,000 residents?

There are many reasons attendance was higher (not sure it was the 14K per game range you stated). Primarily though, if you don't change - you gonna be changed.

A partial list of 15 off the top of my head thoughts to digest (not spending a whole lot on it):

1. No internet / interweb
2. No cell phones - just pay phones
3. Limited TV - if any for sports
4. Cost of ticket ($6.00 was the adult face value I remember - season's were $60 I think)
5. Community involvement - UW & Laramie were butt buddies
6. Casper Shootout
6a. Casper played a big role in home attendance in Laramie
7. bWHYu, Utah, UTEP
8. Paul Roach
9. UW Football
10. Drinking Age was 19
11. Student Choices of Activities were far less
12. The newness of the AA
13. Kids under 12 were $2 (building a future fanbase)
14. Thursday - Saturday Tilts (that way people attend 2 for 1 day missed working)
15. JD's Burger Joint (oh, and TD's / The Pub)

Those are all valid possibilities, but the primary ones that jump out at me are TV and the internet. Throw in the lack of adult beverage at the venue, and the reasons become pretty obvious.

But I guess I was taking more issue with your assertion about Laramie's population too- I've asked census workers a few times how towns like Laramie are counted. They said that the bulk of census activity tends to occur over the summer and pointed out that census forms and interviews are set up to count full-time residents. Most college students who return to their respective home towns or otherwise leave town during the summer are generally not counted, but if they end up in their school town during the census, are, by virtue of the process, NOT counted as part of the population. Having spent plenty of time in towns ranging from nearly 2M to 2K, I can honestly say that Laramie's official population is pretty spot-on. And when the students are in town, it's closer to 40K.

Now, as far as Laramie and UW's relationship in the mid-80's, I remember some pretty rough road, especially after the UP closed up shop and UW started flexing its political muscles a bit more. LPD were notoriously hard on students back then to the point of being investigated by DCI over several allegations that were corroborated by UPD.

The 19-year-old drinking age might be a bit of an issue insofar as the underclassmen might be loathe to venture into a public space for fear of being arrested for underage drinking, however with no alcohol sales at the AA, if the drinking age was 19, they might be more inclined to head to the bars or party at home these days.

Get UW sports off of TV in UW's live footprint and attendance will increase. That's the short-term fix. Enhance the live game experience with in-stadium apps such as replay, scorekeeping, in-game competitions via social apps, in-seat concessions, better choices of food, adult beverages, and better cross-marketing, offers, and benefits- that's the medium term solution. Finally, a winning tradition driven by expectations of excellence- that's the long-term fix.

I will have to disagree with you here, Mr. Wyovanian. Laramie high school enrollment (grades 9-12 enrollment about 1,000) paints a different picture than what you are saying. LHS's enrollment is more consistent with a town like Sheridan's (population 18k and grades 9-12 enrollment of 900-950) or one of the Cheyenne schools (Cheyenne urban area of 71k/3 = 23k per high school, avg enrollment of the school is 1,300) . If Laramie really had 32k+ "regular" people like you are saying then the 9-12 enrollment of LHS would be more consistent with a town like Gillette ( grades 9-12 2,000+ students).

That's a reflection of smaller families and fewer people with kids. Family sizes are nearly half what they were twenty-five+ years ago.

Again, just look at housing occupancy and inventory compared to twenty-five years ago. The growth is pretty obvious...

 

[Wyovanian]

The 2010 census numbers for Laramie include students (as many as we could reach). The census is supposed to be where you are living on April 1. We tried to do some outreach to remind students to mark Laramie as their hometown, and get census workers out before the students left. We also provided much better mapping and addressing to the census bureau. On some of their maps they had a trailer park as 1 address instead of listing each lot as an address. We did a lot of work to help make it as accurate as possible. We got close. Actual population with students was probably closer to 35K than the official 32K back in 2010.

That's interesting, but I'm beginning to wonder if census workers across the different states are all on the same page. Twice, I was told by census workers in Nevada that they try to NOT to count college students unless they are in fact, full-time residents.

 

[Wyovanian]

Not sure if it's been pointed out yet, and maybe I missed it, but college sports attendance is pretty down across the board, as is pro event attendance...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--keeping-fans-in-the-stands-is-getting-harder-to-do-005355696.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[BeaverPoke]

Not sure if it's been pointed out yet, and maybe I missed it, but college sports attendance is pretty down across the board, as is pro event attendance...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--keeping-fans-in-the-stands-is-getting-harder-to-do-005355696.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I get that it is down nationally, but I guess my main point is that it isn't only because of TV.

We just don't have the fans that are interested. Winning helps. I think for fans across the state winning is huge.
If you live 4+ hours away from Laramie, it just isn't worth it to get wrapped up in Pokes sports recently. Why drive 4+ hours to watch the football team lose 7+ games year after year after year?

The #25 ranking is cute and all, but even then, people still aren't convinced we are going to turn the corner. 3 straight CBIs is not what it takes to get people here.
Maybe if we have a good couple weeks, and crack the Top 15, fans will start making that drive for a saturday game.

I think it takes us making a big splash this year, and over-achieving next year for a consistent fan base to be built.

Not saying that blacking out TV wouldn't help, just saying I think Wyo athletics have a bigger issue than only TV/Internet.

If Pokes keep winning this season, and fans start coming, then there will be a legitimate demand for better fan experience. As the crowds increase, and the experience increases, the TV issue might increase as well considering we could be on ESPN a lot more, but it will also get more fans to the games in the long run.

I know people have compared Wyo football attendance stats, but that is a totally different game.
Who really wants to drive 2-6 hours, spend 4-6 hours out in the cold, then drive another 2-6 hours, often times with at least 1 and sometimes 2 nights spent at a hotel?

College football is a huge event, that takes a lot of time and outside time. We can talk about Cowboy Tough and sticking it out, but 99% of people, even from Wyoming are going to respond with "fuck the cold" more times than not.

Wyo is built for hoops. It's cold outside. Let's get inside and get on the court. Let's get the wins this season. Let's get the fans this season. Then, we can improve it next season. And as times goes on, we can hit Utah State or New Mexico level... 10K+ a game. No matter who the opponent is. Stetson should draw 9,500, San Diego State should draw 10,500.

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

Well all the income inequality doesn't help does it? As we know that's now at an all time high. So do you really want to give up your hard earned cash to some guys that make your lifetime salary in one game maybe 2 games or watch on tv? Often its super expensive for a shitty seat to these events. Are they even going hard the whole time (especially in MLB and NBA)?? I'm a pretty normal guy when it comes income, blue collar I guess like most of our nation. Since 08 I've cut back from sporting events a ton. It really has to be worth it. I feel like baseball I can at least get in cheap. Most sports I've just stopped following as I've gotten older. I'm sure I'm not alone in this style of thinking as MOST fans fall into that blue collar realm. The rich fans often go just to go, don't make any noise, or care very little. Hell they talk fucking business at the game. This is just based off my own San Francisco experiences.

I like college basketball cause its sort of the last great realm of team sports that I like. Money is still influential in the sport no doubt but nothing like football. Seems like any program has a chance to build SOMETHING. People just don't follow it as much and its more underground. Still the basketball I'd crave to see the most would be somewhere between college and NBA. More team style with different defenses but less one on one ego shit, yet still that amazing pro talent/ability. The NBA seems as scripted and dirty as professional wrestling at times.

 

[stymeman]

TV isn't the issue.

It's that ENOUGH people don't care. If enough people cared, then it would be packed. Winning will help. 9pm Wednesday night games aren't going to help but just keep winning at this rate and it will start to fill in. Season after season, winning will start to build it.

Don't kid yourself- TV's a BIG issue.

Other places sure, but we have more of a population issue.

There aren't thousands of die hard fans sitting in Cheyenne staying home simply because the game is on TV. There just aren't the thousands of die hard fans to begin with.

TV is huge, lots of my fellow Cheyenneites I've heard it, I'd love to go over, but since it's at 9pm and its on ESPN 2 I'm not going to go over, it's supposed to be the best day of our week, weatherwise, and yes I get tired of making the 100 mile trek roundtrip every week, but I live for these moments and I am a bit nervous but I'll be there in full throat to "hopefully" see my #25 Pokes beat the Asstecs yet again.....if it wasn't for it being on TV I can betcha there'd be another 1500 from Cheyenne making the trek. Oh well it is what it is...GO POKES

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

I believe that Wyoming is an extremely blue collar state across the board as well. I know there's wealthy people like anywhere, but we don't just don't have a major city/industry center were a lot cheddar flows through to everyone on all avenues. The people that make the money are sort of in specific industries in the state and I'm guessing it stays pretty concentrated. So we have fans that probably don't have a ton of extra paper to spend and have to face possible life threatening road conditions to get to the game, while having the least populated state.

It's truly amazing and says a lot about our fans that we've filled the AA in the past. Hell that makes me feel good typing it!

 

[joshvanklomp]

TV/Internet is part of it, but I think people are still more frugal with their money after the recession of 2008. It's cheaper for a family to watch a game on TV than to pile everyone into the car and drive to a game.

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

Just from what I'm hearing on this board I'm sure the game day experience could be MUCH MUCH better. Let me know if I'm way off base here since I haven't been to the AA in a long time. I mean I love our 80's stadium look and feel but that doesn't mean our food options need to represent those times. Why not have a few solid healthy food options in there? Do we have some badass locally sourced burger/bbq spot? I mean Wyoming puts out some good protein why not cut some deal with a ranch and get a badass vendor in there. Elk burgers at the AA? MMMMMM elk burgers.... Why not have a fantastic micro brew stand with the top Wyoming/Colorado/Idaho beers? Play better music! I just remember sad ass nachos, dogs, soda, popcorn, and horrible music. Again it may have changed..how much?

Sure these are all snobby ass San Franciscan ideas, but the question is why? Why not strive for more out of our game day experience? I know its the pros but this stuff is going down all around this city. AT&T Park has solid food/bev options for a hefty fee, but I'd rather they be there so if I spend cash its on something quality. The locally sourced thing is just the way to go in general. Especially when you have stuff that other places don't. Just some ideas and its not gonna bring 4000 more asses in the seats. Winning will do that, but a better experience in the stadium also creates an atmosphere you'd like to return to.

 

[wyopig]

I actually think the in-game atmosphere at the AA is fantastic.

In the War, however...

 

[POKE FAN]

Here....retweet this and put a couple more butts in the lower bowl tomorrow night. That's a start:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WYO_VISION/status/555144626068135936[/tweet]

 

[Brew_Poke]

Guys, you have to realize that a blackout of TV in the local region will result in one thing only: an increase in illegal streaming/piracy in the local region. It won't appreciably positively affect attendance. People's behavior has changed in their sports consumption.

 

[joshvanklomp]

Guys, you have to realize that a blackout of TV in the local region will result in one thing only: an increase in illegal streaming/piracy in the local region. It won't appreciably positively affect attendance. People's behavior has changed in their sports consumption.

In the younger crowd maybe, but how many older people who might be staying home to watch on TV know about FirstRowSports or other illegal streaming options?

 

[wyocowboy2014]

Here is a little data that I put together. I compiled data between the 2000 season and the 2013 season, taking a look at attendance, home wins & losses, Wyoming & National Unemployment, crude prices, and natural gas prices. From what I have seen, the main idea is that (not surprisingly) losing kills your fan base. Most of the other factors did not support the drop in attendance. If anything, they should have increased attendance. Feel free to play with the data. The file is an excel file and you should be able to download it from the link below.

http://www.filedropper.com/wyominghomeattendance

 

[LanderPoke]

Here is a little data that I put together. I compiled data between the 2000 season and the 2013 season, taking a look at attendance, home wins & losses, Wyoming & National Unemployment, crude prices, and natural gas prices. From what I have seen, the main idea is that (not surprisingly) loosing kills your fan base. Most of the other factors did not support the drop in attendance. If anything, they should have increased attendance. Feel free to play with the data. The file is an excel file and you should be able to download it from the link below.

http://www.filedropper.com/wyominghomeattendance

Nice work. You should make a graph of conference wins, too.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Here is a little data that I put together. I compiled data between the 2000 season and the 2013 season, taking a look at attendance, home wins & losses, Wyoming & National Unemployment, crude prices, and natural gas prices. From what I have seen, the main idea is that (not surprisingly) losing kills your fan base. Most of the other factors did not support the drop in attendance. If anything, they should have increased attendance. Feel free to play with the data. The file is an excel file and you should be able to download it from the link below.

http://www.filedropper.com/wyominghomeattendance

I agree with this. If there were some overreaching societal trend that greatly impacts attendance, then that trend should not be unique to Wyoming. Thus, 95% + of teams in the NCAA should have experienced steep declines in attendance (with a probability value of 0.05). I don't think that was the case. I think I remember that BYU doubled attendance from the late 90s to today.

I do think marketing and such will help, but I think our greatest limitation is lack of sustained success.

Clearly the recession/depression impacted attendance nationally to an extent. Nonetheless, an NCAA appearance and run this year will boost attendance greatly next year if there are signs of early success in next year's season.

 

[stymeman]

I'm loving the price of fuel makes it a bit easier to go to Laramie every week or so...lol