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Why All The Bitching About Laramie Attendance?
- Thread starter McPeachy
- Start date
BeaverPoke
Well-known member
Wyovanian said:
Other places sure, but we have more of a population issue.
There aren't thousands of die hard fans sitting in Cheyenne staying home simply because the game is on TV. There just aren't the thousands of die hard fans to begin with.
carbonpoke
Well-known member
I think tv has something to do with. But I think it all revolves around the arena experience.
I can rent movies from direct tv, but I still go to the theater every now and again.
We need a better game environment, and I don't just mean comfy seats and cup holders. The product that we r watching is getting better, the fans will come. If they don't start filling the arena, then the department needs to address other issues. Ticket pricing, adult beverages, good food options, nice bathrooms, student prizes, walking vendors, ticket stubs that can be redeemed for 5 cents off a gallon of gas at partipating stations, better ooc scheduling, more pre-game activities, and maybe even a theme night for students... Like a toga party... Prizes for stuff, help encourage frats and sororities to attend en mas. Theme night should happen annually for nationally broadcast games.
Honestly it feels like the department is just waiting for things to happen. We need to be proactive. This goes for football as well.
Better half time shows might help too. Announce that fennis will be attending and trying to dunk during half time. Let the college students do skits, pre screened of course. We need a better marketing role. Not saying they need to be fired, but they need some fire to acheive more.
I can rent movies from direct tv, but I still go to the theater every now and again.
We need a better game environment, and I don't just mean comfy seats and cup holders. The product that we r watching is getting better, the fans will come. If they don't start filling the arena, then the department needs to address other issues. Ticket pricing, adult beverages, good food options, nice bathrooms, student prizes, walking vendors, ticket stubs that can be redeemed for 5 cents off a gallon of gas at partipating stations, better ooc scheduling, more pre-game activities, and maybe even a theme night for students... Like a toga party... Prizes for stuff, help encourage frats and sororities to attend en mas. Theme night should happen annually for nationally broadcast games.
Honestly it feels like the department is just waiting for things to happen. We need to be proactive. This goes for football as well.
Better half time shows might help too. Announce that fennis will be attending and trying to dunk during half time. Let the college students do skits, pre screened of course. We need a better marketing role. Not saying they need to be fired, but they need some fire to acheive more.
HDTVs have really impacted live sporting events, and it's not because younger fans (such as students) are choosing TV over the live experience- for most people over 30, the change in picture quality is revolutionary. And it's not just home viewing. Why do you think Buffalo Wild Wings is one of the fastest growing brands in America? Why do you think Chili's is revamping their locations into sports bars? I can get better food, more varieties of it, adult beverages, and watch the game with replay, commentary, etc. and show off my team support to others, possibly even rival fans, without venturing more than a few miles from my front door. I don't have to worry about parking, bad seats, getting up and waiting in line at concession stands, waiting in line for a bathroom, and if I live in a place like Cheyenne or FoCo, I've got quite a few choices and don't have to drive all the way to Laramie. Anymore, the options of staying home and watching or heading down to the tavern to watch compete pretty stiffly with the live experience.Wyovanian said:
If it wasn't for the games being televised in our live market footprint, the options of staying home or heading out to a local watering hole to watch the game are off the table. Period, end of story. I'd bet good money there ARE, literally, thousands of fans doing exactly what you think they are not.
LanderPoke
Well-known member
This. And people just don't like sports as much as they did 15-20+ years ago.Wyovanian said:
McPeachy
Well-known member
Wyovanian said:
There are many reasons attendance was higher (not sure it was the 14K per game range you stated). Primarily though, if you don't change - you gonna be changed.
A partial list of 15 off the top of my head thoughts to digest (not spending a whole lot on it):
1. No internet / interweb
2. No cell phones - just pay phones
3. Limited TV - if any for sports
4. Cost of ticket ($6.00 was the adult face value I remember - season's were $60 I think)
5. Community involvement - UW & Laramie were butt buddies
6. Casper Shootout
6a. Casper played a big role in home attendance in Laramie
7. bWHYu, Utah, UTEP
8. Paul Roach
9. UW Football
10. Drinking Age was 19
11. Student Choices of Activities were far less
12. The newness of the AA
13. Kids under 12 were $2 (building a future fanbase)
14. Thursday - Saturday Tilts (that way people attend 2 for 1 day missed working)
15. JD's Burger Joint (oh, and TD's / The Pub)
McPeachy
Well-known member
Lost Poke said:
You are absolutely correct...I missed listing that. It was the biggest factor in our attendance at that time. Wyo basketball was on the map. Man was that a fun time for Wyoming sports & sports fans.
I guess I maybe just assumed we all knew that (and mostly that Wyovanian knew it already)
Those are all valid possibilities, but the primary ones that jump out at me are TV and the internet. Throw in the lack of adult beverage at the venue, and the reasons become pretty obvious.McPeachy said:
But I guess I was taking more issue with your assertion about Laramie's population too- I've asked census workers a few times how towns like Laramie are counted. They said that the bulk of census activity tends to occur over the summer and pointed out that census forms and interviews are set up to count full-time residents. Most college students who return to their respective home towns or otherwise leave town during the summer are generally not counted, but if they end up in their school town during the census, are, by virtue of the process, NOT counted as part of the population. Having spent plenty of time in towns ranging from nearly 2M to 2K, I can honestly say that Laramie's official population is pretty spot-on. And when the students are in town, it's closer to 40K.
Now, as far as Laramie and UW's relationship in the mid-80's, I remember some pretty rough road, especially after the UP closed up shop and UW started flexing its political muscles a bit more. LPD were notoriously hard on students back then to the point of being investigated by DCI over several allegations that were corroborated by UPD.
The 19-year-old drinking age might be a bit of an issue insofar as the underclassmen might be loathe to venture into a public space for fear of being arrested for underage drinking, however with no alcohol sales at the AA, if the drinking age was 19, they might be more inclined to head to the bars or party at home these days.
Get UW sports off of TV in UW's live footprint and attendance will increase. That's the short-term fix. Enhance the live game experience with in-stadium apps such as replay, scorekeeping, in-game competitions via social apps, in-seat concessions, better choices of food, adult beverages, and better cross-marketing, offers, and benefits- that's the medium term solution. Finally, a winning tradition driven by expectations of excellence- that's the long-term fix.
LanderPoke
Well-known member
I will have to disagree with you here, Mr. Wyovanian. Laramie high school enrollment (grades 9-12 enrollment about 1,000) paints a different picture than what you are saying. LHS's enrollment is more consistent with a town like Sheridan's (population 18k and grades 9-12 enrollment of 900-950) or one of the Cheyenne schools (Cheyenne urban area of 71k/3 = 23k per high school, avg enrollment of the school is 1,300) . If Laramie really had 32k+ "regular" people like you are saying then the 9-12 enrollment of LHS would be more consistent with a town like Gillette ( grades 9-12 2,000+ students).Wyovanian said:
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
Year Nat.Rank Avg.Att
2002 39 Just over 10K
2003 42 10,100
2004 62 8,200
2005 73 7,467
2006 94 5,671
So, population, TV, etc. changed from 2002 to 2006?
Methinks there is more to it, like winning.
2002 39 Just over 10K
2003 42 10,100
2004 62 8,200
2005 73 7,467
2006 94 5,671
So, population, TV, etc. changed from 2002 to 2006?
Methinks there is more to it, like winning.
nirv117
Well-known member
The 2010 census numbers for Laramie include students (as many as we could reach). The census is supposed to be where you are living on April 1. We tried to do some outreach to remind students to mark Laramie as their hometown, and get census workers out before the students left. We also provided much better mapping and addressing to the census bureau. On some of their maps they had a trailer park as 1 address instead of listing each lot as an address. We did a lot of work to help make it as accurate as possible. We got close. Actual population with students was probably closer to 35K than the official 32K back in 2010.
ragtimejoe1 said:
Yeah, but we've been winning for 4 years, and the attendance is down. I think TV has a lot to do with dwindling attendance, but the only point that I can make that somewhat contradicts my original point is that we still had damn good attendance for those 10:30pm Big Monday games on ESPN. Those games typically had some weight, but not any more than the 9:00pm tipoff we're looking at tomorrow. I'll do some research on this, but we would have 9,000-10,000 at some of those late-night Utah games pretty easily. Some of the "less important" games only had about 7,000-8,000.
LanderPoke
Well-known member
We had several years of pretty good success before 2002. It's was a build up. It'll take at least two years of having a winning conference record to get the crowds back.ragtimejoe1 said:
NowherePoke
Well-known member
ragtimejoe1 said:
It's obviously a combination of factors. Winning certainly plays a role, but the other factors discussed on this thread (TV, internet, etc.) limit the ceiling for attendance in my view.
Tomorrow night will feature a ranked Wyoming Cowboys squad in a matchup against the defending MWC champ (and arguably top program in the league) with the winner gaining inside position in the race for the league crown. That's as good of a matchup as any game we had in 01-02 other than the finale vs. Utah for the league title.
Tomorrow night will also likely feature less than 7k in attendance. That's about 2k less than our lowest attended MWC game in 01-02. As a comparison, we played a game in Laramie on 1/12/02 against Colorado St. Certainly important as a Border War rival, but they were hardly a team the caliber of SDSU this year. Wyoming was 12-4 heading into that game and although they had shared the regular season MWC title the year before the Pokes were in the midst of a 14 year NCAA tourney drought. How many people showed up? 13,131. Granted it was a Saturday, but still.
We simply can't draw fans the way we used to be able to. The changes in content availability (TV/Internet) affect every program but when the decision to attend the game also includes the decision to drive late at night on potentially dangerous roads in winter conditions as it often does in Wyoming, the impact can be more significant.
This whole conversation depresses me, but it is a good discussion and one that I am sure our athletic department struggles with as well.
If there aren't 10k in the stands on 1/24/14 for the Lobos, I will officially give up on us ever filling the AA again (even the reduced capacity). It will be a Saturday afternoon and the students will be in town. Pokes may or may not be ranked (we will see what happens in the next two games), but they will be very much in the mix for the MWC and the game will be huge in the MWC race either way.
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
2007 89 6,000
2008 ? 5,200
2009 ? 5,300
2010 ? 4,800
2011 ? 4,100
2012 ? 4,900
2013 ? 5,600
2014 100 5,100
FWIW, 1997 ? 5,300
1998 7,000
1999 6,700
So, basically we are just below or at attendance of the late 1990s. Certainly other factors could be involved, but, with 12K students, crowds of 8,000-10,000 are attainable with winning alone, IMO. In order for winning to increase crowds, winning will need to be sustained as LanderPoke pointed out.
2008 ? 5,200
2009 ? 5,300
2010 ? 4,800
2011 ? 4,100
2012 ? 4,900
2013 ? 5,600
2014 100 5,100
FWIW, 1997 ? 5,300
1998 7,000
1999 6,700
So, basically we are just below or at attendance of the late 1990s. Certainly other factors could be involved, but, with 12K students, crowds of 8,000-10,000 are attainable with winning alone, IMO. In order for winning to increase crowds, winning will need to be sustained as LanderPoke pointed out.
