Which is the best way to build a "program"?

[McPeachy]

Continually reload with transfers & fifth year seniors

-or-

Sign HS athletes to develop and grow

I am on the fence with this one. All I really follow is MWC hoops, and it is certainly hard to follow top programs (like Hicktucky that reloads with top 50 talent every year) to evaluate which is a better path.

 

[stymeman]

as much as i'd love to keep the 5 to play 4 and watch us grow, I'm thinking we really need to look at the Juco and transfer route for at least 1 or 2 players, that way we'll always some some leadership of some kind, I'm thinking with our true lack of leadership other than Larry is really hurting us down the stretch...thanx

 

[J-Rod]

Tough Question. San Diego State can recruit whoever they want, as can UNLV.

Colorado State is a succeeding with the transfer route, but now Boise is succeeding by recruiting high schoolers and developing them. Derrick Marks was nobody when he arrived at Boise, and look at him now. That's all on Leon Rice. And recruiting! Paris Austin is going to torment the MW for years to come once he arrives in Boise.

Really, it is a tough question. We see both approaches working. I personally would rather recruit and develop. That said, I'd like to see a nationally-respected recruit or two each class with that approach too.

 

[JimmyDimes]

Continually reload with transfers & fifth year seniors

-or-

Sign HS athletes to develop and grow

I am on the fence with this one. All I really follow is MWC hoops, and it is certainly hard to follow top programs (like Hicktucky that reloads with top 50 talent every year) to evaluate which is a better path.

Going the transfer route is definitely the quick fix. And, I think you have to get kind of lucky. JJ Avila and Banajano were pretty good players to begin with.

You have to get lucky with high school players too, but at least there is time to develop. When you rely on transfers, they need to perform right away.

I like Shyatt's approach. Unfortunately, the depth isn't there yet and that has ruined or cursed the past three seasons. It doesn't help when you have a senior quit the team right before two other big men get mono. It also doesn't help when your depth is a bunch of underclassmen. This is due to a couple misses (Halderson and Vernon who both transferred) among other things.

 

[Adv8RU12]

1) Get players that can really shoot under pressure.
2) Make sure they are athletic and have endurance.
3) Make sure that basketball is #1, studies #2, the Buckhorn and partying #100, or not on the list at all.

 

[JimmyDimes]

Tough Question. San Diego State can recruit whoever they want, as can UNLV.

Colorado State is a succeeding with the transfer route, but now Boise is succeeding by recruiting high schoolers and developing them. Derrick Marks was nobody when he arrived at Boise, and look at him now. That's all on Leon Rice. And recruiting! Paris Austin is going to torment the MW for years to come once he arrives in Boise.

Really, it is a tough question. We see both approaches working. I personally would rather recruit and develop. That said, I'd like to see a nationally-respected recruit or two each class with that approach too.

Now that is becoming the case....but it took Fischer 7 years to finish better than 4th in the conference. And the continuity is helping too.

In regards to Boise and CSU....we swept them this year. And do you know who really developed between his freshman year and today? Larry "fcking" Nance. And before you get too high on Austin, guess who is ranked right there with him....incoming freshman Austin Conway.

As with most recruiting sites....our best recruit isn't even ranked on here. Justin James is going to torment the MWC for the next 4 years.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/2751" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[J-Rod]

In regards to Boise and CSU....we swept them this year. And do you know who really developed between his freshman year and today? Larry "fcking" Nance. And before you get too high on Austin, guess who is ranked right there with him....incoming freshman Austin Conway.

As with most recruiting sites....our best recruit isn't even ranked on here. Justin James is going to torment the MWC for the next 4 years.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/2751" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Both James and Conway could very good...but neither are on the recruiting level that Paris Austin is. Paris is 4-stars on ESPN, and more importantly a Top 150 recruit according to Rivals. That doesn't mean much right now, but even Aztec fans were pissed Austin ended up with Boise. He is going to be special. Not everyone is good enough to play at O'Dowd. That kid has a cult following in the high-level AAU world.

I didn't say Wyoming can't develop guys. Clearly Nance is special...but I point out Boise for now cause they're likely to win the regular season title, maybe even the tournament championship. That's impressive considering Rice's first few classes were loaded with no-named recruits.

 

[calpoke25]

Tough Question. San Diego State can recruit whoever they want, as can UNLV.

Colorado State is a succeeding with the transfer route, but now Boise is succeeding by recruiting high schoolers and developing them. Derrick Marks was nobody when he arrived at Boise, and look at him now. That's all on Leon Rice. And recruiting! Paris Austin is going to torment the MW for years to come once he arrives in Boise.

Really, it is a tough question. We see both approaches working. I personally would rather recruit and develop. That said, I'd like to see a nationally-respected recruit or two each class with that approach too.

Now that is becoming the case....but it took Fischer 7 years to finish better than 4th in the conference. And the continuity is helping too.

In regards to Boise and CSU....we swept them this year. And do you know who really developed between his freshman year and today? Larry "fcking" Nance. And before you get too high on Austin, guess who is ranked right there with him....incoming freshman Austin Conway.

As with most recruiting sites....our best recruit isn't even ranked on here. Justin James is going to torment the MWC for the next 4 years.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/2751" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But Fisher did go on a run and make the NCAA tournament (upsetting us along the way) very early in his tenure. Let's not pretend he had absolutely zero success for 7 years before results started showing.

 

[MrTitleist]

I'm guessing if you wanted to build a program you'd throw all of the money at Calipari then rely on freshman and sophomores to run your team, and then leave for the NBA.

 

[BeaverPoke]

Get kids who have thick skin. Kids who are mentally tough. Kids that don't quit.

 

[fromolwyoming]

Well, both ways "work" when done right. Though relying so heavily on transfers is not exactly a program builder, as generally you only get the guys for a year or two. Getting a couple of transfers (JUCO or otherwise) isn't a bad thing, but relying on it and essentially other coaches to have developed the players for you is risky at best.

What Shyatt is doing is a program builder. You take highschoolers and develop them (and the occasional JUCO or transfer isn't a bad thing).

 

[BeaverPoke]

Well, both ways "work" when done right. Though relying so heavily on transfers is not exactly a program builder, as generally you only get the guys for a year or two. Getting a couple of transfers (JUCO or otherwise) isn't a bad thing, but relying on it and essentially other coaches to have developed the players for you is risky at best.

What Shyatt is doing is a program builder. You take high schoolrrs and develop them (and the occasional JUCO or transfer isn't a bad thing).

What bugs me is that this is the year everyone thought would be our year. Year 4. 6 seniors coming into the year. 4 of our starting 5 are seniors. The 1 who isnt is a 3rd year starting junior. Pre-season POY. This was our year to arrive at the top of MWC basketball. Everyone was saying this is our year. Now? Now people are saying "it takes time to build a program just look at Fischer at SDSU it took him 7 years to finish top 4."

Excuses are endless.

 

[JimmyDimes]

Well, both ways "work" when done right. Though relying so heavily on transfers is not exactly a program builder, as generally you only get the guys for a year or two. Getting a couple of transfers (JUCO or otherwise) isn't a bad thing, but relying on it and essentially other coaches to have developed the players for you is risky at best.

What Shyatt is doing is a program builder. You take high schoolrrs and develop them (and the occasional JUCO or transfer isn't a bad thing).

What bugs me is that this is the year everyone thought would be our year. Year 4. 6 seniors coming into the year. 4 of our starting 5 are seniors. The 1 who isnt is a 3rd year starting junior. Pre-season POY. This was our year to arrive at the top of MWC basketball. Everyone was saying this is our year. Now? Now people are saying "it takes time to build a program just look at Fischer at SDSU it took him 7 years to finish top 4."

Excuses are endless.[/quote]

It does take time, but I think Shyatt has done a decent job of building the Wyoming program. We were in 1st place before Herndon and Nance got mono. First place is what teams strive for. They were also ranked....as they were two years ago. The problem is depth. But, most teams would struggle if they lost their best player and one of the main rotation players.

It was our year and still can be. So, what it took Miles 5 years to do, and what it took Fisher 7 years to do, Shyatt has done in 4. Unfortunately, bad luck and lack of interior depth has put us in the position we are in today......needing to win the tourney to go to the dance.

For those of you who don't want to use mono, an acl tear, or a bar fight as an excuse.....how do you think Wyoming would have done if none of these things happened?

 

[jessejames02]

I'm pretty sure the best way to build a program is to pay the athletes families under the table. Seems to work wonders here in the East.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

We've been through several coaches in both major revenue sports. I think Shy has done a good job of maintaining a steady upward trajectory. If we plateau over the next few years, then I'll worry. For now, it appears that we are getting a pretty good foundation.

I think all of this is done DESPITE glaring deficiencies at AD. I think the committee review is accurate. We need rebranding and a new vision. Our budgets are stagnant (I'm not even sure they keep pace with inflation); our ideas are the same (beg the State); blame coaches for a failing AD; etc. etc.

I think Shy and Bohl will be able to overcome this, but it would be one hell of a lot easier if they had competent support.

 

[seattlecowboy]

In regards to Boise and CSU....we swept them this year. And do you know who really developed between his freshman year and today? Larry "fcking" Nance. And before you get too high on Austin, guess who is ranked right there with him....incoming freshman Austin Conway.

As with most recruiting sites....our best recruit isn't even ranked on here. Justin James is going to torment the MWC for the next 4 years.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/2751" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Both James and Conway could very good...but neither are on the recruiting level that Paris Austin is. Paris is 4-stars on ESPN, and more importantly a Top 150 recruit according to Rivals. That doesn't mean much right now, but even Aztec fans were pissed Austin ended up with Boise. He is going to be special. Not everyone is good enough to play at O'Dowd. That kid has a cult following in the high-level AAU world.

I didn't say Wyoming can't develop guys. Clearly Nance is special...but I point out Boise for now cause they're likely to win the regular season title, maybe even the tournament championship. That's impressive considering Rice's first few classes were loaded with no-named recruits.

I would actually say that Justin James would be more highly recruited than Paris Austin if they were both Juniors this year and had another year of high school. Justin James got POY over a bunch of top 100 recruits in his division in Florida and guys that are going to play at ACC and SEC schools.

He just wasn't recruited as much because of where he was playing before this year. This year as a senior he played on a team that was ranked #25 in the nation pre-season and ended up like I said getting POY over not only everyone on his own team but every other player in his division that is being highly recruited.

Conway was top 100 on some recruiting lists just depends which recruiting list you look at.

 

[JimmyDimes]

Conway had better offers.....Indiana and Nebraska in addition to Wyoming. Not bad company...especially beating out Indiana. Austin's best as far as I can tell is Florida State.

 

[WilyWapiti]

I'm pretty sure the best way to build a program is to pay the athletes families under the table. Seems to work wonders here in the East.

+1

Take the USC, Ohio State, FSU, etc.. route, and pay some damn talent. Suffer probation every once and a while when we get caught, then reload.

WW

 

[ragtimejoe1]

I'm pretty sure the best way to build a program is to pay the athletes families under the table. Seems to work wonders here in the East.

+1

Take the USC, Ohio State, FSU, etc.. route, and pay some damn talent. Suffer probation every once and a while when we get caught, then reload.

WW

We are too small. We'll get the death penalty for violations that big Universities get a public reprimand for.

 

[stymeman]

I got an idea, just win, won't that build itself then...lol