Which is the best way to build a "program"?

[kansasCowboy]

Like I said on a different post, if you look at our recruits from four years ago to now, it's night and day.
Our stud senior guard in Grabau, was Mr Colorado basketball, but was not receiving any recruiting for a reason.
If this was a basketball video game Grabau would have been about a 65 talent level as a fresh, as a senior, maybe 72.
If you look at Our recruiting now, Conway would be like getting a kid who is already rated 75+ as an incoming fresh.
Then we have gained a few "Diamonds in the rough" Nance and Adams who would've gained big time in their levels over their career and it shows. James would be around a 70+ rating aswell. Moemeka, Naughton kind of fall under this. Shy still goes after some JUCO players, he just doesn't fill his roster with a majority of JUCOs, which is a good thing.
Our recruiting has been gradually gaining year to year. Barnes is being developed, yet he was a higher recruit than we were gaining four years ago.
We are on the right track. I know not everybody plays video games, I just thought a specific rating would help people understand the difference in our recruiting from four years ago to now.

 

[SDPokeFan]

The best way is to recruit really, really, really good players.

 

[WYCowboy]

I'm guessing if you wanted to build a program you'd throw all of the money at Calipari then rely on freshman and sophomores to run your team, and then leave for the NBA.

This is what UNLV does - no thanks.

Also, I think JRod is selling JJ and Conway a little short. They will probably give the new guy at BSU a run for the top - it's all a gamble though.

We need another Reggie Slater or Eric Leckner down low though. Maybe Herndon will turn in to that kind of talent and monster.

 

[MrTitleist]

I'm guessing if you wanted to build a program you'd throw all of the money at Calipari then rely on freshman and sophomores to run your team, and then leave for the NBA.

This is what UNLV does - no thanks.

Also, I think JRod is selling JJ and Conway a little short. They will probably give the new guy at BSU a run for the top - it's all a gamble though.

We need another Reggie Slater or Eric Leckner down low though. Maybe Herndon will turn in to that kind of talent and monster.

But UNLV isn't successful.. but Kentucky is!

 

[stymeman]

The best way is to recruit really, really, really good players.

or this too, newsflash

 

[WyoExpat]

1) Get players that can really shoot under pressure.
2) Make sure they are athletic and have endurance.
3) Make sure that basketball is #1, studies #2, the Buckhorn and partying #100, or not on the list at all.

Using a combination of transfer players for whom basketball was #1 didn't do us any good by the end of the Steve McClain run.

I think that, for Wyoming, we have the right system in place. Coach expects players to be real students and coach expects kids to come in and work toward earning the privilege of being a key starter by the time they are older, wiser, more physically developed upper classmen.

When I think "program" I think long term, sustained competitiveness. We are actually there now. No one realistically expects to win in Laramie and we have a real chance of winning our road games. We also can assume that we should be in the top half of the conference each year--even in our non-peak years.

 

[NowherePoke]

1) Get players that can really shoot under pressure.
2) Make sure they are athletic and have endurance.
3) Make sure that basketball is #1, studies #2, the Buckhorn and partying #100, or not on the list at all.

When I think "program" I think long term, sustained competitiveness. We are actually there now. No one realistically expects to win in Laramie and we have a real chance of winning our road games. We also can assume that we should be in the top half of the conference each year--even in our non-peak years.

But we aren't there. We recently lost to a sub 200 RPI team at home and our best conference finish is 5th in a peak year. Non-peak years have been much lower (and will be next year as well).

 

[kansasCowboy]

1) Get players that can really shoot under pressure.
2) Make sure they are athletic and have endurance.
3) Make sure that basketball is #1, studies #2, the Buckhorn and partying #100, or not on the list at all.

When I think "program" I think long term, sustained competitiveness. We are actually there now. No one realistically expects to win in Laramie and we have a real chance of winning our road games. We also can assume that we should be in the top half of the conference each year--even in our non-peak years.

But we aren't there. We recently lost to a sub 200 RPI team at home and our best conference finish is 5th in a peak year. Non-peak years have been much lower (and will be next year as well).

1. Even good teams can have a bad loss. I recall Schroyers bad Cowboys beating a couple conf foes who were NCAA bound. It does happen.

2. Top half? We are 10-6, with two games left. We have the potential right now of going from 4-10 in Shys first year, to 12-6 now! I'd say the senior have done what they were supposed to do.

We can only control our wins and losses. We cannot control the rest of the league. So where we finish is kind of out of our control, unless we go undefeated, which if you are putting us in that category then your just nuts. Not even the great SDSU or BYU or Utah or UNM could do that.
We are serious in a jumbled mess for the top half of the league. We win out we make that mess even worse. And jump a spot or two.
And then the conf tourney adds a whole other dynamic to this. All you people crying that the season is over, and we are only CBI bound should feel extremely ashamed if this team gets the conf crown, gets the NCAA and you all gave up on them five games too early. But hey, it's your prerogative, since you are your own fan, right? - and that was meant for anyone complaining.

 

[JimmyDimes]

1) Get players that can really shoot under pressure.
2) Make sure they are athletic and have endurance.
3) Make sure that basketball is #1, studies #2, the Buckhorn and partying #100, or not on the list at all.

When I think "program" I think long term, sustained competitiveness. We are actually there now. No one realistically expects to win in Laramie and we have a real chance of winning our road games. We also can assume that we should be in the top half of the conference each year--even in our non-peak years.

But we aren't there. We recently lost to a sub 200 RPI team at home and our best conference finish is 5th in a peak year. Non-peak years have been much lower (and will be next year as well).

1. Even good teams can have a bad loss. I recall Schroyers bad Cowboys beating a couple conf foes who were NCAA bound. It does happen.

2. Top half? We are 10-6, with two games left. We have the potential right now of going from 4-10 in Shys first year, to 12-6 now! I'd say the senior have done what they were supposed to do.

We can only control our wins and losses. We cannot control the rest of the league. So where we finish is kind of out of our control, unless we go undefeated, which if you are putting us in that category then your just nuts. Not even the great SDSU or BYU or Utah or UNM could do that.
We are serious in a jumbled mess for the top half of the league. We win out we make that mess even worse. And jump a spot or two.
And then the conf tourney adds a whole other dynamic to this. All you people crying that the season is over, and we are only CBI bound should feel extremely ashamed if this team gets the conf crown, gets the NCAA and you all gave up on them five games too early. But hey, it's your prerogative, since you are your own fan, right? - and that was meant for anyone complaining.

I seem to remember both SDSU and Boise losing at Fresno....SDSU when Fresno was a sub 200 rpi team. Boise lost at home to USU.

This might be a dig, but who cares. You're dealing with someone who was bitching at halftime of the Nevada game about the players giving up, etc. Some fans can't see the trees through the forest and can only look at the negatives.

 

[NowherePoke]

1) Get players that can really shoot under pressure.
2) Make sure they are athletic and have endurance.
3) Make sure that basketball is #1, studies #2, the Buckhorn and partying #100, or not on the list at all.

When I think "program" I think long term, sustained competitiveness. We are actually there now. No one realistically expects to win in Laramie and we have a real chance of winning our road games. We also can assume that we should be in the top half of the conference each year--even in our non-peak years.

But we aren't there. We recently lost to a sub 200 RPI team at home and our best conference finish is 5th in a peak year. Non-peak years have been much lower (and will be next year as well).

1. Even good teams can have a bad loss. I recall Schroyers bad Cowboys beating a couple conf foes who were NCAA bound. It does happen.

2. Top half? We are 10-6, with two games left. We have the potential right now of going from 4-10 in Shys first year, to 12-6 now! I'd say the senior have done what they were supposed to do.

We can only control our wins and losses. We cannot control the rest of the league. So where we finish is kind of out of our control, unless we go undefeated, which if you are putting us in that category then your just nuts. Not even the great SDSU or BYU or Utah or UNM could do that.
We are serious in a jumbled mess for the top half of the league. We win out we make that mess even worse. And jump a spot or two.
And then the conf tourney adds a whole other dynamic to this. All you people crying that the season is over, and we are only CBI bound should feel extremely ashamed if this team gets the conf crown, gets the NCAA and you all gave up on them five games too early. But hey, it's your prerogative, since you are your own fan, right? - and that was meant for anyone complaining.

Don't get me wrong, there has been progress. I was just disagreeing with the concept that we are "there". I don't think we have achieved the criteria that Expat laid out and if we are "there" by anybody's chosen criteria than I would suggest they need to strengthen their criteria. In terms of bad losses, I don't recall Schroyer beating any of those top teams on the road. There will be games where the better team loses on the road. Happens all the time in college basketball. NCAA caliber teams don't typically lose at home to Sub 200 RPI teams though.

We were actually 6-8 in Shyatt's first year, but we were 3-13 in Schroyer's last two so Shyatt undeniably improved the competitiveness of the program immediately. We just haven't been able to build on it for several reasons as our RPI under Shy has been 83, 73, 134, and now 95. Certainly the team could win the MWCT, but that opportunity exists every year. To me, a program that is "there" is competing for legitimate postseason births (NIT/NCAA) on a fairly regular basis. For Wyoming, I would say being an at-large caliber team once every 4 years and a bubble/NIT type team once every 4 years with the other two years being CBI level is what I would consider "there". We haven't been able to get off the CBI level yet (winning the MWCT won't change our position relative to our regular season performance, although I would be thrilled obviously). Our conference winning percentage has gone up slightly but that has been mirrored by a rapid decline in MWC strength.

I have seen Leon Rice, Tim Miles and Larry Eustachy have success at other programs in the conference/region with less fan support and history than we have. In addition to the fan support and history, we have newly remodeled basketball facilities (CSU has a relatively new practice facility as well it should be noted). I guess I don't see why we can't achieve at the same level they have. Leon Rice is doing this after losing a first team All-MWC player to injury before the conference season started. I don't give Eustachy a ton of credit for his first NCAAT team at CSU as that was handed to him on a silver platter as Miles had constructed a very well built roster that was packed with seniors. However, this year's team is 100% his.

I don't expect Wyoming to ever recruit on the level of UNLV/SDSU/UNM. As a result, we have to take advantage of the opportunities presented when those programs have down years as they are right now (at least UNLV/UNM). We failed to do so, while BSU has taken advantage.

If we get to that level, than I would say we are "there".

 

[NowherePoke]

1) Get players that can really shoot under pressure.
2) Make sure they are athletic and have endurance.
3) Make sure that basketball is #1, studies #2, the Buckhorn and partying #100, or not on the list at all.

When I think "program" I think long term, sustained competitiveness. We are actually there now. No one realistically expects to win in Laramie and we have a real chance of winning our road games. We also can assume that we should be in the top half of the conference each year--even in our non-peak years.

But we aren't there. We recently lost to a sub 200 RPI team at home and our best conference finish is 5th in a peak year. Non-peak years have been much lower (and will be next year as well).

1. Even good teams can have a bad loss. I recall Schroyers bad Cowboys beating a couple conf foes who were NCAA bound. It does happen.

2. Top half? We are 10-6, with two games left. We have the potential right now of going from 4-10 in Shys first year, to 12-6 now! I'd say the senior have done what they were supposed to do.

We can only control our wins and losses. We cannot control the rest of the league. So where we finish is kind of out of our control, unless we go undefeated, which if you are putting us in that category then your just nuts. Not even the great SDSU or BYU or Utah or UNM could do that.
We are serious in a jumbled mess for the top half of the league. We win out we make that mess even worse. And jump a spot or two.
And then the conf tourney adds a whole other dynamic to this. All you people crying that the season is over, and we are only CBI bound should feel extremely ashamed if this team gets the conf crown, gets the NCAA and you all gave up on them five games too early. But hey, it's your prerogative, since you are your own fan, right? - and that was meant for anyone complaining.

I seem to remember both SDSU and Boise losing at Fresno....SDSU when Fresno was a sub 200 rpi team. Boise lost at home to USU.

This might be a dig, but who cares. You're dealing with someone who was bitching at halftime of the Nevada game about the players giving up, etc. Some fans can't see the trees through the forest and can only look at the negatives.

They lost AT Fresno. Big difference. We lost AT AFA as well in terms of bad road losses. It's tough to win on the road in college basketball. The USU loss at home is certainly a black mark on BSU's resume, but remember that USU is ahead of us in the standings and has an RPI of 135. Bad loss for a NCAA at-large team, but not the same as Fresno.

If you want to make it personal, go ahead. Just remember our discussion before the season. Every year you say that the media is underestimating us, etc. I pointed out that actually the Pokes have finished almost identical to the pre-season polls every single year. That doesn't look to change much this year.

You say I am negative, but I ask you to look back over the last decade that we have both been posting on here, GWG, and the MWCboard and you tell me who has been right. About DC, about Schroyer, about recruiting, and about Burman. About this year's schedule in BB and about the hole that Bohl was walking into. I want our programs to win and I want them to do it without embarrassing incidents (finger, Howdy Doody, Curb stomp, NM brawl, burglary arrests, assault arrests, twitter exchanges, etc.). I can't pretend that things are well, when they are not.