UNLV @ UW

[Cosmic Cowboy]

I will say this as well the Pokes may be frustrating to watch at times but I think this team is fun. They get out and move on the court. I like this platoon system but it isn't easy to coach/play in. Establishing the glue/gel in the units and when to run with them for how long is everything. It doesn't help when guys are sort of fading in and out. I'm happy we have this many guys that can hit the court without being a massive liability. Find this team to be quite entertaining and the ElectroStein was fucking fire again!!! :fuel: :fuel: :fuel:

 

[Adv8RU12]

I agree playing James and Dalton more would help but i think part of it might actually be the strength and conditioning. Ovbiously its a problem for Dalton since he already was quoted as saying he is tired so makes you wonder if other players feel the same.

The conditioning coach is failing to adapt to the speed-up game. There are three solutions to do in the off-season (although it's too late now):
1) Road work
2) Road work
3) Road work.

 

[TSpoke]

Its also interesting to me that the player that some on this board think shouldnt play but a handful of minutes and only hurt our chances to win, JUSTIN JAMES, scored the final 5 points of the game. All 5 were huge points when we needed an answer. If only Edwards would have had him on the bench like normal...

Who says that? Literally no one.

I thought the minutes were distributed correctly tonight. Dalton with 30 JJ with 26. You could say Herndon may have had too many with 27 but I'm guessing they needed him in there to anchor the inside defense(can't replace Herndon with Adams). Everyone else was between 20-24 minutes. Mcmannamen's minutes were reduced down so that was good. Edwards likes to play 9-10 guys. No one should be playing 35 minutes a game if we a playing that deep. The depth of our team was considered a good thing I thought. Not sure why Adams wasn't in more at the end but he is working his way back into game shape perhaps 20 minutes was his limit. The fact of the matter is that the coaching staff likes to play a lot of players and that leads to lower minutes all around. It seems like people on this board are the only ones really worked up about it. It is going to get worse next year when we get everyone back but Mcm and add 2 transfers that will contribute right away and possibly some freshmen who can.

If McM hadn't gone into a huge slump and we were getting 12-13 from him we wouldn't even be having this discussion cuz we would have an extra couple wins and be sitting near the top of the conference. It reminds me of Hankersons slump 2 years ago during conference season. Hopefully Jason can work his way out of it like Hank did. If he does I think we will be tough down the stretch and put ourselves in a good position going into the tourney.

Have you been on this board recently? There are a number of posters who have no issue with James on the bench (lack of minutes) and have openly said he's a liability....

Well since he plays way more than 5 minutes a game, them having no issue with the minutes he plays doesn't mean they think he should only play 5 minutes a game. JVK has been the toughest on him and he says that he loves JJ and he is one of his favorite players. The only time someone mentioned liability to the team was in this thread during the game after a specific number of incidents and was later retracted.

We can have this discussion without exaggerating to try to make the people you disagree with look worse. Just like some on here seem to think their love for JJ means they have to tear down other players on our team like Liebs and Aka. I love the style of JJs game he is so much fun to watch but I also appreciate what the other players on the team bring and see the value they bring into the system. I understand what Edwards is trying to do with getting different players in there. I don't always agree with his moves but get what he is trying to do. He has a lot of players he feels deserves time on the court and that his team is better for having a deep rotation. I like the approach much better than when SHyatt could only trust 6 or maybe 7 players to play any significant time which lead us to have to slow down on offense to rest their legs.

I am not exaggerating, I don't need to. I have stats on my side. His STATS say he should be playing far more than 5 minutes (which I never said), 10 minutes, even 25 minutes. He and Dalton (with Adams quickly gaining ground) are the best players on the team by a mile. To not play them more than everyone else is absolutely asinine and absurd. And that is no exaggeration.

And no one is saying guys like Liebs and Kelley don't bring value, our point is that their value isn't anywhere near JJ's and to assume because JJ has more turnovers than Liebs or Kelley that he negatively impacts the game at a higher rate than them, is crazy. The people that truly believe that we are better with James on the bench or that Liebs and Kelley are suitable replacements as he catches his breath are ridiculous.

My Mistake on the 5 minutes thing. THought that's what I read the first time. Must have saw the other 5 in the post and put it in there. But still I've seen no one say he should only play a handful of minutes. He is playing starter minutes(he is in the top 5 in average minutes) The fact of the matter that I am getting at is that the philosophy of the coaching staff is to play 9 or 10 players and to try not to overuse players(I thought McM was getting overused earlier in the season, he shouldn't have been playing 34 minutes). This leads to the best players not having as many minutes as they would on a team that didn't play like this. They think we are a better team by having fresh legs out there all game rather than wear down a few players. Which also allows us to run more up tempo. I like the break down of minutes in this game. Dalton with the most and JJ right there. And everyone else between 20-24 minutes.

I guess to counter that, if 25+ minutes is "overusing" players than the Strength and Conditioning program is failing.

EDIT: And where did this notion come that if we can run 9-10 players that that instantly equates to success? I would rather run the best 5 more minutes and win then play more bodies and lose...

I never claimed that. I'm saying that's what the coaching staff has decided. They look at this team and have decided to play 9-10 players. That's their decision after spending day after day with the guys. They think that this is the system that will give this team the best chance to win.

I don't think there is any reason JJ or Dalton couldn't play 35 minutes a game so I wouldn't blame the S&C coaches but there are advantages to having our best players on the floor at the end of the game with legs that have only played 25 minutes versus the other teams players having played over 30. Im not talking about saving the players legs over the course of a season but during a game if their legs are fresher they will be able to take advantage of more tired legs late.

In hindsight McM has played too many minutes in some of the early conference games but if he had done his average 12-13 points we would have won probably at least 2 more games and wouldn't be complaining about this. There was no way to know at that point he was starting this slump he has been on.

Its ok to not agree with the system the coaches are running but it sounds like some people don't think there is any reasoning behind the decisions they are making. The fact is they are probably looking at everything we are plus many more factors to make their decisions. Lots of things that don't show up on the stat sheet or are even hard to see from just watching go into these decisions(defensive assignments/philosophy, understanding of the offense, type of defense we are facing, etc.)

Think this conversation has gone about as far as it can so I think I am done discussing it. I would say we will have to agree to disagree but I don't necessarily disagree with you. I wouldn't complain with seeing JJ getting more minutes, I just think I understand what coach is trying to do. I think we will continue to see what we saw yesterday for the rest of the year with Dalton or James leading the team in minutes(if they stay out of foul trouble) and the other right up there with most everyone else around 20 minutes a game.

Go Pokes. Beat Boise.

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

Man watching this 2nd half is like what do you do???? Almost everyone was going off the rails. UNLV starts poppin and has a ton of energy. Lucky to hold on. I have more blame going on the players then Edwards. It's a good thing he doesn't have hair because he would've lost it again.

 

[joshvanklomp]

Its ok to not agree with the system the coaches are running but it sounds like some people don't think there is any reasoning behind the decisions they are making. The fact is they are probably looking at everything we are plus many more factors to make their decisions. Lots of things that don't show up on the stat sheet or are even hard to see from just watching go into these decisions(defensive assignments/philosophy, understanding of the offense, type of defense we are facing, etc.)

This is where I've always been at with this whole situation.

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

I do agree that Adams needs to see the court more down the stretch. Its the biggest mistake. JJ really kept the dam from breaking in this game for real. I don't mind Liebs playing in our top clutch 7 guys but has J McMan played himself outside of that unit right now? Give Edwards credit for sticking by him??? I mean that's a ballsy and sort of a cool statement to stand by your struggling senior. It worked, they won.

 

[TSpoke]

Man watching this 2nd half is like what do you do???? Almost everyone was going off the rails. UNLV starts poppin and has a ton of energy. Lucky to hold on. I have more blame going on the players then Edwards. It's a good thing he doesn't have hair because he would've lost it again.

Yeah it was rough. No matter who was in there we struggled. Missed so many easy shots. But can also look at in the way that we gave up our lead but finally found a way to close it out at the end. Maybe it will be a turning point.

 

[Wyovanian]

While I am willing to give Coach Edwards the benefit of the doubt and trust in his plan, I can't help but feel like he's trying to reinvent chess. Can't be done. Every game's been played. The trick is to know how to maintain the strongest position possible as the game progresses. Nothing will make a rook or a bishop as dangerous as a queen. In basketball, you defend your lead with your strongest players. There's no better strategy. Even long-term, developing players, those developing players get minutes when the clock and the score make sense to sub them for second-tier players. You sub your top-tier players when the game is in hand.

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

While I am willing to give Coach Edwards the benefit of the doubt and trust in his plan, I can't help but feel like he's trying to reinvent chess. Can't be done. Every game's been played. The trick is to know how to maintain the strongest position possible as the game progresses. Nothing will make a rook or a bishop as dangerous as a queen. In basketball, you defend your lead with your strongest players. There's no better strategy. Even long-term, developing players, those developing players get minutes when the clock and the score make sense to sub them for second-tier players. You sub your top-tier players when the game is in hand.

Agreed. I think we can use the platoon to wear teams out, get them in foul trouble, and save our legs. Then when it gets to nut cutting time we have to have some combo of our top 7 clutch players out there. Hard to not want Adams, JJ, Dalton, and Herndon out in the final unit. You can shuffle that a little with Liebs on pg, J McMan????, Gorski, or Naughton (a FT liability) for the BIG final unit. Hell though just typing that and thinking it made me rethink :lol: :lol: :rofl:

 

['PokeForLife]

I think overall this game was good step in the right direction. Adams started and scored 8 quick points right off the bat. JJ and Dalton both got more minutes. They scored 44 of our 66 points. Some may call me naive, but I still like to think that when push comes to shove down the stretch of the conference season those three will be playing in the crucial parts of the games. This game showed us a little bit of that with the exception of Adams. We just really need to learn not to start the second half so flat.