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The ewes have some expectations for their football coach - Norvell fired

307bball said:
I take your points here even if I think you are over-simplifying.

There is a school of thought in Fort Collins over the last 10 or so years that the moves by the athletic department have not been prudent. They have pushed all of thier chips in to the point that if they don't get the return they are hoping for, it will be a financial albatross for them. I respect the moxie (as you do evidently) but when you gamble...sometimes you lose. Schools like UW and CSU aren't in a position of strength on this stuff....it's a losing proposition for losing schools. As hard as it is, you have to win/invest. If you just invest...that is going to go sideways.
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CSU has paid a lot of coach buyouts and has very very little to show for it.
 
LawPoke said:
But they keep trying. I'd argue we have too - especially in basketball.
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We found a passionate coach who really wants to be here and players seem to respond to. I’m cautiously optimistic we found a good one there. We aren’t going to be a top 25 team realistically ever. The economics of college basketball don’t allow for that. Will fans ever return to the AA though? I am also a bit doubtful on that because Burman screwed up the place so bad with his seating plan and unwillingness to do something about it.

We did strike gold on our volleyball coach. She keeps winning despite other programs poaching our best players.
 
307bball said:
I take your points here even if I think you are over-simplifying.

There is a school of thought in Fort Collins over the last 10 or so years that the moves by the athletic department have not been prudent. They have pushed all of thier chips in to the point that if they don't get the return they are hoping for, it will be a financial albatross for them. I respect the moxie (as you do evidently) but when you gamble...sometimes you lose. Schools like UW and CSU aren't in a position of strength on this stuff....it's a losing proposition for losing schools. As hard as it is, you have to win/invest. If you just invest...that is going to go sideways.
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The point is - they are trying. They double down. And then go to the ATM and double down again. We hem and haw and wring our hands and make excuses. As for the financial albatross, they are betting on themselves. It may be dumb. But if and when it pays off, we will be jealous as hell. Look at BYU. How many of us made fun of them for going independent? How many of us castigated them for being arrogant and wrote the epitaph for the Boogers that leaned heavily on them having made a huge mistake for leaving the MW for the uncertainty of independence? Now look at them. They are at the apex of the Big XII having success we could only dream about. They bet on themselves and they hit. If CSU somehow finds the next Sonny Lubick with a new stadium and a town and university that are pretty attractive - look out. Meanwhile, we will just be little ol' Wyo - thanking our lucky stars for crap bowl appearances, 6-6 seasons, and good guys that graduate.

CSU gambles believing that the alternative (continuing to putter into oblivion and being left in a crappy league forever) is worse than pulling the slot handle and risking financial security. I don't want to be reckless, but we have nothing to show for the billions invested in our campus and athletics programs either. They are at least on the field - in the arena - kicking and fighting. We are pining for the 80s and doing nothing to find our way back.
 
OrediggerPoke said:
We aren’t going to be a top 25 team realistically ever.
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Why? If Grand Canyon, CSU, New Mexico, and others can do it, why can't we? I refuse to concede that we can't win and be in the hunt. We have before and we can again. I happen to like Sonny - and hope he can win. I think he can.

I don't mean to attack you, Ore, but I just cannot and will not accept that we are a lost cause. We are lost right now because we have an AD that has absolutely destroyed a once-proud program. With the right focus, energy, recruiting, investments, and grit, we can and should get back on track.
 
LawPoke said:
The point is - they are trying. They double down. And then go to the ATM and double down again. We hem and haw and wring our hands and make excuses. As for the financial albatross, they are betting on themselves. It may be dumb. But if and when it pays off, we will be jealous as hell. Look at BYU. How many of us made fun of them for going independent? How many of us castigated them for being arrogant and wrote the epitaph for the Boogers that leaned heavily on them having made a huge mistake for leaving the MW for the uncertainty of independence? Now look at them. They are at the apex of the Big XII having success we could only dream about. They bet on themselves and they hit. If CSU somehow finds the next Sonny Lubick with a new stadium and a town and university that are pretty attractive - look out. Meanwhile, we will just be little ol' Wyo - thanking our lucky stars for crap bowl appearances, 6-6 seasons, and good guys that graduate.

CSU gambles believing that the alternative (continuing to putter into oblivion and being left in a crappy league forever) is worse than pulling the slot handle and risking financial security. I don't want to be reckless, but we have nothing to show for the billions invested in our campus and athletics programs either. They are at least on the field - in the arena - kicking and fighting. We are pining for the 80s and doing nothing to find our way back.
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I've pointed out the BYU example a few times in other discussions. Nonetheless....judging from the conversations on this forum, this "bet on yourself" approach will face some stiff headwinds....even from Wyoming fans. If the programs can't pay for themselves right now, good luck getting anybody to invest in them.

For me personally...I think I'm with you..but you surely recognize we are in the minority on this right? Wyoming constituents are pretty anti-spending at the moment in ways that make an investment like CSU did for their stadium out of the question...also, forget what BYU did in going independant. They are not answerable to a state government like UW is.
 
307bball said:
I've pointed out the BYU example a few times in other discussions. Nonetheless....judging from the conversations on this forum, this "bet on yourself" approach will face some stiff headwinds....even from Wyoming fans. If the programs can't pay for themselves right now, good luck getting anybody to invest in them.

For me personally...I think I'm with you..but you surely recognize we are in the minority on this right? Wyoming constituents are pretty anti-spending at the moment in ways that make an investment like CSU did for their stadium out of the question...also, forget what BYU did in going independant. They are not answerable to a state government like UW is.
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I actually agree. I would only say that we are answerable to state government mostly because of the Legislature holding the purse strings. They can screw around with some things, but if we were fighting and winning and paying our own way, the strings that the state has at the University could be dealt with.
 
LawPoke said:
I actually agree. I would only say that we are answerable to state government mostly because of the Legislature holding the purse strings. They can screw around with some things, but if we were fighting and winning and paying our own way, the strings that the state has at the University could be dealt with.
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BYU is paying one player $7 million for one year of play. I see no circumstance where the basketball program generates the revenue to pay players that kind of ridiculous money.
 
LawPoke said:
Why? If Grand Canyon, CSU, New Mexico, and others can do it, why can't we?
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They can’t and won’t. As soon as New Mexico had success, all of their top players were poached. Maybe Grand Canyon can in their for profit diploma mill scheme but I don’t count them as a real university personally.
 
LawPoke said:
Then why are we in the game? Honest question.
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It’s a good question. Given Wyoming’s new conference affiliation, changing dynamics and costs of ‘revenue sharing’/NIL, I believe a study on return on investment may be warranted.

As a Wyoming Cowboys fan, I want to see our teams play at the highest level. As a Wyoming resident and taxpayer, I absolutely question and detest the prudence in taxpayer and student funds being directed to support semi-professional leagues so that a select few (largely out of state)18-22 year olds can amass great wealth. Frankly I’m against it and will vote against any legislator suggesting that state funds be directed for those paying players purposes.
 
OrediggerPoke said:
It’s a good question. Given Wyoming’s new conference affiliation, changing dynamics and costs of ‘revenue sharing’/NIL, I believe a study on return on investment may be warranted.

As a Wyoming Cowboys fan, I want to see our teams play at the highest level. As a Wyoming resident and taxpayer, I absolutely question and detest the prudence in taxpayer and student funds being directed to support semi-professional leagues so that a select few (largely out of state)18-22 year olds can amass great wealth. Frankly I’m against it and will vote against any legislator suggesting that state funds be directed for those paying players purposes.
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I tend to be in that camp. I will never support providing state funds to pay players. I am actually of the mind that we should do a study on the ROI of the entire University. My guess is that it is not impressive...at all. Few patents. Limited technology transfer. Few outside jobs created. Most students leaving Wyoming. Etc. I would also guess that the ROI for community colleges is quite good.
 
LawPoke said:
I tend to be in that camp. I will never support providing state funds to pay players. I am actually of the mind that we should do a study on the ROI of the entire University. My guess is that it is not impressive...at all. Few patents. Limited technology transfer. Few outside jobs created. Most students leaving Wyoming. Etc. I would also guess that the ROI for community colleges is quite good.
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Funding of the University for academic purposes is completely different. It’s a constitutional matter required under Wyoming’s Constitution and is also subject to the Morrill Acts of 1862 and 1890. Apples and oranges IMO.
 
OrediggerPoke said:
BYU is paying one player $7 million for one year of play. I see no circumstance where the basketball program generates the revenue to pay players that kind of ridiculous money.
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Do you think if that player gets them to a sweet 16, that it would be worth it? We made the sweet 16 once and and it's legendary. Short term dollars probably not, but looking longer term the benefit could be huge.
 
LawPoke said:
I was visiting with a friend before the Joser game and he said that he had a direct conversation with a BOT member about TB and Sawful. He was suggesting that the U is not pursuing excellence with those two on the letterhead in the athletic department and that the BOT needed to make a change. He was promptly told that TB has hired coaches that graduate kids and aren't involved in controversy - so we need to just pipe down and accept the greatness that the BOT and Prez have bestowed on all of us.

Folks, if you are thinking ANY changes are on the horizon, you are only destined for disappointment. The BOT are content with 5-7 or 6-6 in football and whatever we have going in the other sports. Attendance is up, generally, and the fat cats have new, fancy boxes in which they can toast one another and their wonderful stewardship of THE University of Wyoming.

Methinks their world is about to be turned on its head. What was once one of the easiest jobs in the world - with limited fundraising required to pay the bills (sure, you have to fundraise for pools and fat cat boxes) and an open piggy bank in Cheyenne - is about to turn into a fairly treacherous position. While I am not generally supportive of the Freedumb Cock-us, I am looking forward to UW, TB and the BOT being subjected to some heat.
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Yes, if you want to name names, Kermit Brown, Brad Bonner, Michelle Sullivan, Jim Mathis, Laura Schmidt Pizzato, David Fall, Mike Greear, Carol Linton, Brad LaCroix, Tom Walters, Paul Ullrich. But mostly Governor Gordon (who is on the board) and submits the proposed budget for all of this stuff to the legislature, then the legislature is more good old boys who follow along and vote for whatever Gordon tells them to vote for.. You can also blame Matt Mead for much of the disaster as he was governor for much of the spending and never did anything when it started spiraling out of control. It's the good old boys in Wyoming. They pat each other on the back and give each other raises.
 
307bball said:
I take your points here even if I think you are over-simplifying.

There is a school of thought in Fort Collins over the last 10 or so years that the moves by the athletic department have not been prudent. They have pushed all of thier chips in to the point that if they don't get the return they are hoping for, it will be a financial albatross for them. I respect the moxie (as you do evidently) but when you gamble...sometimes you lose. Schools like UW and CSU aren't in a position of strength on this stuff....it's a losing proposition for losing schools. As hard as it is, you have to win/invest. If you just invest...that is going to go sideways.
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I think CSU has overextended itself as well. There isn't enough interest in the program there to justify the investment.
 
laxwyo said:
Do you think if that player gets them to a sweet 16, that it would be worth it? We made the sweet 16 once and and it's legendary. Short term dollars probably not, but looking longer term the benefit could be huge.
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Considering BYU is spending roughly $10-12 million just on basketball players this year, the question (to me) isn’t really whether it is worth it as much as it is if it is feasible. Because I don’t believe in state or student funds being used to pay players, Wyoming would need to raise an additional $10 million per year from private donors to pay 18-22 year old players on the basketball team to do what BYU is doing. That isn’t remotely happening (especially with the recent passings of Maury Brown and the McMurrys).

I also plan to maintain my yearly donation of $0 to pay players over and above scholarships. I am far from alone.

So is it worth it? That’s for the people who have stupid money to provide to 18-22 year olds to decide. I don’t believe that money exists here in the State of Wyoming.
 
Here's the deal, we're effectively in a transition state to an fcs-like model. We're effectively in that state but with theoretical access to playoff/ncaa tourney. The access to the tourney may or may not go away but access (if that's a reality for UW) to the playoff will go away. All the teams in the pac and other g6 leagues are in the exact same boat just at different stages of denial.

Even though the split has effectively happened, I wonder if it will be more formal at some point or do we stay in this weird cfb state of haves and have nots in the same division between the old bowl system and the new playoff system? I'm guessing the latter for the foreseeable future.

It is what it is. Our economic model will resemble current fcs; maybe slightly more money. We will all fill the weekday slots on our dime or we'll forgo tv altogether. The tea leaves aren't that hard to read. We're going the way of the Ivy League in the 80s just not as abruptly.
 
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