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The ewes have some expectations for their football coach - Norvell fired

307bball said:
I take your points here even if I think you are over-simplifying.

There is a school of thought in Fort Collins over the last 10 or so years that the moves by the athletic department have not been prudent. They have pushed all of thier chips in to the point that if they don't get the return they are hoping for, it will be a financial albatross for them. I respect the moxie (as you do evidently) but when you gamble...sometimes you lose. Schools like UW and CSU aren't in a position of strength on this stuff....it's a losing proposition for losing schools. As hard as it is, you have to win/invest. If you just invest...that is going to go sideways.
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CSU has paid a lot of coach buyouts and has very very little to show for it.
 
LawPoke said:
But they keep trying. I'd argue we have too - especially in basketball.
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We found a passionate coach who really wants to be here and players seem to respond to. I’m cautiously optimistic we found a good one there. We aren’t going to be a top 25 team realistically ever. The economics of college basketball don’t allow for that. Will fans ever return to the AA though? I am also a bit doubtful on that because Burman screwed up the place so bad with his seating plan and unwillingness to do something about it.

We did strike gold on our volleyball coach. She keeps winning despite other programs poaching our best players.
 
307bball said:
I take your points here even if I think you are over-simplifying.

There is a school of thought in Fort Collins over the last 10 or so years that the moves by the athletic department have not been prudent. They have pushed all of thier chips in to the point that if they don't get the return they are hoping for, it will be a financial albatross for them. I respect the moxie (as you do evidently) but when you gamble...sometimes you lose. Schools like UW and CSU aren't in a position of strength on this stuff....it's a losing proposition for losing schools. As hard as it is, you have to win/invest. If you just invest...that is going to go sideways.
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The point is - they are trying. They double down. And then go to the ATM and double down again. We hem and haw and wring our hands and make excuses. As for the financial albatross, they are betting on themselves. It may be dumb. But if and when it pays off, we will be jealous as hell. Look at BYU. How many of us made fun of them for going independent? How many of us castigated them for being arrogant and wrote the epitaph for the Boogers that leaned heavily on them having made a huge mistake for leaving the MW for the uncertainty of independence? Now look at them. They are at the apex of the Big XII having success we could only dream about. They bet on themselves and they hit. If CSU somehow finds the next Sonny Lubick with a new stadium and a town and university that are pretty attractive - look out. Meanwhile, we will just be little ol' Wyo - thanking our lucky stars for crap bowl appearances, 6-6 seasons, and good guys that graduate.

CSU gambles believing that the alternative (continuing to putter into oblivion and being left in a crappy league forever) is worse than pulling the slot handle and risking financial security. I don't want to be reckless, but we have nothing to show for the billions invested in our campus and athletics programs either. They are at least on the field - in the arena - kicking and fighting. We are pining for the 80s and doing nothing to find our way back.
 
OrediggerPoke said:
We aren’t going to be a top 25 team realistically ever.
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Why? If Grand Canyon, CSU, New Mexico, and others can do it, why can't we? I refuse to concede that we can't win and be in the hunt. We have before and we can again. I happen to like Sonny - and hope he can win. I think he can.

I don't mean to attack you, Ore, but I just cannot and will not accept that we are a lost cause. We are lost right now because we have an AD that has absolutely destroyed a once-proud program. With the right focus, energy, recruiting, investments, and grit, we can and should get back on track.
 
LawPoke said:
The point is - they are trying. They double down. And then go to the ATM and double down again. We hem and haw and wring our hands and make excuses. As for the financial albatross, they are betting on themselves. It may be dumb. But if and when it pays off, we will be jealous as hell. Look at BYU. How many of us made fun of them for going independent? How many of us castigated them for being arrogant and wrote the epitaph for the Boogers that leaned heavily on them having made a huge mistake for leaving the MW for the uncertainty of independence? Now look at them. They are at the apex of the Big XII having success we could only dream about. They bet on themselves and they hit. If CSU somehow finds the next Sonny Lubick with a new stadium and a town and university that are pretty attractive - look out. Meanwhile, we will just be little ol' Wyo - thanking our lucky stars for crap bowl appearances, 6-6 seasons, and good guys that graduate.

CSU gambles believing that the alternative (continuing to putter into oblivion and being left in a crappy league forever) is worse than pulling the slot handle and risking financial security. I don't want to be reckless, but we have nothing to show for the billions invested in our campus and athletics programs either. They are at least on the field - in the arena - kicking and fighting. We are pining for the 80s and doing nothing to find our way back.
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I've pointed out the BYU example a few times in other discussions. Nonetheless....judging from the conversations on this forum, this "bet on yourself" approach will face some stiff headwinds....even from Wyoming fans. If the programs can't pay for themselves right now, good luck getting anybody to invest in them.

For me personally...I think I'm with you..but you surely recognize we are in the minority on this right? Wyoming constituents are pretty anti-spending at the moment in ways that make an investment like CSU did for their stadium out of the question...also, forget what BYU did in going independant. They are not answerable to a state government like UW is.
 
307bball said:
I've pointed out the BYU example a few times in other discussions. Nonetheless....judging from the conversations on this forum, this "bet on yourself" approach will face some stiff headwinds....even from Wyoming fans. If the programs can't pay for themselves right now, good luck getting anybody to invest in them.

For me personally...I think I'm with you..but you surely recognize we are in the minority on this right? Wyoming constituents are pretty anti-spending at the moment in ways that make an investment like CSU did for their stadium out of the question...also, forget what BYU did in going independant. They are not answerable to a state government like UW is.
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I actually agree. I would only say that we are answerable to state government mostly because of the Legislature holding the purse strings. They can screw around with some things, but if we were fighting and winning and paying our own way, the strings that the state has at the University could be dealt with.
 
LawPoke said:
I actually agree. I would only say that we are answerable to state government mostly because of the Legislature holding the purse strings. They can screw around with some things, but if we were fighting and winning and paying our own way, the strings that the state has at the University could be dealt with.
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BYU is paying one player $7 million for one year of play. I see no circumstance where the basketball program generates the revenue to pay players that kind of ridiculous money.
 
LawPoke said:
Why? If Grand Canyon, CSU, New Mexico, and others can do it, why can't we?
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They can’t and won’t. As soon as New Mexico had success, all of their top players were poached. Maybe Grand Canyon can in their for profit diploma mill scheme but I don’t count them as a real university personally.
 
LawPoke said:
Then why are we in the game? Honest question.
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It’s a good question. Given Wyoming’s new conference affiliation, changing dynamics and costs of ‘revenue sharing’/NIL, I believe a study on return on investment may be warranted.

As a Wyoming Cowboys fan, I want to see our teams play at the highest level. As a Wyoming resident and taxpayer, I absolutely question and detest the prudence in taxpayer and student funds being directed to support semi-professional leagues so that a select few (largely out of state)18-22 year olds can amass great wealth. Frankly I’m against it and will vote against any legislator suggesting that state funds be directed for those paying players purposes.
 
OrediggerPoke said:
It’s a good question. Given Wyoming’s new conference affiliation, changing dynamics and costs of ‘revenue sharing’/NIL, I believe a study on return on investment may be warranted.

As a Wyoming Cowboys fan, I want to see our teams play at the highest level. As a Wyoming resident and taxpayer, I absolutely question and detest the prudence in taxpayer and student funds being directed to support semi-professional leagues so that a select few (largely out of state)18-22 year olds can amass great wealth. Frankly I’m against it and will vote against any legislator suggesting that state funds be directed for those paying players purposes.
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I tend to be in that camp. I will never support providing state funds to pay players. I am actually of the mind that we should do a study on the ROI of the entire University. My guess is that it is not impressive...at all. Few patents. Limited technology transfer. Few outside jobs created. Most students leaving Wyoming. Etc. I would also guess that the ROI for community colleges is quite good.
 
LawPoke said:
I tend to be in that camp. I will never support providing state funds to pay players. I am actually of the mind that we should do a study on the ROI of the entire University. My guess is that it is not impressive...at all. Few patents. Limited technology transfer. Few outside jobs created. Most students leaving Wyoming. Etc. I would also guess that the ROI for community colleges is quite good.
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Funding of the University for academic purposes is completely different. It’s a constitutional matter required under Wyoming’s Constitution and is also subject to the Morrill Acts of 1862 and 1890. Apples and oranges IMO.
 
OrediggerPoke said:
BYU is paying one player $7 million for one year of play. I see no circumstance where the basketball program generates the revenue to pay players that kind of ridiculous money.
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Do you think if that player gets them to a sweet 16, that it would be worth it? We made the sweet 16 once and and it's legendary. Short term dollars probably not, but looking longer term the benefit could be huge.
 
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