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Our Offense Sucks

LanderPoke

LanderPoke

Well-known member
I hate our offense. I've hated it since Shyatt's been back. It involves mostly one person dribbling 35 ft from the basket and the rest standing around with their hands on their knees. Indiana St. was no world beater, but at least in their offense there was constant movement and motion. What a joke our offense is. Adjustments are needed! This team most obviously sucks BAD at shooting. So why not run and push the pace? How many wide freaking open threes did Josh Adams feed up to our "shooters"?Josh can't shoot either, but he can sure as hell find open players. Blows my mind that we can't recruit anyone that can make a damn open shot. Freaking Ft. Lewis had about 6 of em. I bet they want D-1 scholarships.

Why are we not playing Marshall? It's obvious that he needs 20 min a game. Everyone can see it.

Jason looks like he's improved his game. He's a solid player. Good for him.

We're going to get murdered on the boards all year. Did anyone see Herndon get ragdolled on a FT? wow. Someone's got to get a blue collar mentality and get some rebounds.
What a disappointment. Kind of feels like football after the first game. Really freaking disappointing.
 
Herndon is not aggressive at all. He should be pulling 8 boards a game easily but he stands and watches. Doesn't anticipate the rebound at all. Outside shooting is horrendous so far. I don't see the improvement in Gorski that we have been told. Dalton doesn't shoot well that I have seen. And I agree on Marshall, get him the rotation and open up the offense. It could be a long season.
 
I think we need Trey starting at the PG with Adams, Marshall and James. You use those four to attack the basket and drive, dish, slash to create shots and lay ups and get fouls. Need to go with a 4 out 1 in offense.

I would put Barnes in at the 5 spot to rebound since he has a big body. He won't get you a lot of points because he has no low post moves but neither does anyone else on the team so at least use Barnes muscle down low for rebounding. I think Naughton in a year or two will be good but he needs to learn the game better.

I would bring JMac off the bench first and then Gorski, Herndon and Dalton.

We have no low post presence at all and that will be the way it is all year because i don't see anyone on the team that will magically become some type of offensive guru down low by the end of the year.

With no low post presence they need those guys to attack the basket otherwise we will have every game be like last night where everyone stands around and jacks 3's up the whole game and go 7-30 . Unless we are hot from 3 for the game we will lose and lose badly. Sitting out there firing 3's up all game with no low post presence is basketball suicide on offense.

You could also use JMac to start instead of James since he is more mature and seems pretty solid and then bring James off the bench first but those are the guys that need to play the most.
 
James needs to mature a lot. He shot the ball the first 4 times he touched it last night. He's gonna be damn good, but like everyone on this team, they need to settle into their roles.

Also, anyone that thinks that Indiana State sucks or that this is a bad loss is stupid. They're returning all of their offensive production from a team that only finished behind a couple top 10 teams last year in their league. Winning at Indiana State this year is probably about a similar task to winning at Utah State this year if Collette didn't quit...and Utah State finished 5th in our conference last year.

Wyoming played like shit, but this isn't like our loss at Air Force last year or anything. It's the first real game of the season, it's on the road, and as Shyatt likes to constantly put it, we have new dynamics to figure out. Part of those new dynamics will be figuring out our most effective offense. They're also figuring out how to defend. I saw instances were two veteran guys would be guarding an ISU player on the perimeter, then they would both run away from him because they thought they should be guarding someone else. The guy would just shoot an open shot and make it. We need to be more defensively sound this season versus past seasons because you don't have a Derek Cooke, Larry Nance, or Leonard Washington camping in the paint to save your ass if you get beat.
 
Wyolie Coyote said:
Herndon is not aggressive at all. He should be pulling 8 boards a game easily but he stands and watches. Doesn't anticipate the rebound at all. Outside shooting is horrendous so far. I don't see the improvement in Gorski that we have been told. Dalton doesn't shoot well that I have seen. And I agree on Marshall, get him the rotation and open up the offense. It could be a long season.
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Out of curiosity would you call anyone on our team an above average shooter?
 
Here's where we'll see if Shyatt is a great coach or merely a good one. No dominant big man on this year's team so we'll get to see if Shyatt can adjust. Leonard Washington and Larry Nance aren't walking through the door.
 
wyopig said:
James needs to mature a lot. He shot the ball the first 4 times he touched it last night. He's gonna be damn good, but like everyone on this team, they need to settle into their roles.

Also, anyone that thinks that Indiana State sucks or that this is a bad loss is stupid. They're returning all of their offensive production from a team that only finished behind a couple top 10 teams last year in their league. Winning at Indiana State this year is probably about a similar task to winning at Utah State this year if Collette didn't quit...and Utah State finished 5th in our conference last year.

Wyoming played like shit, but this isn't like our loss at Air Force last year or anything. It's the first real game of the season, it's on the road, and as Shyatt likes to constantly put it, we have new dynamics to figure out. Part of those new dynamics will be figuring out our most effective offense. They're also figuring out how to defend. I saw instances were two veteran guys would be guarding an ISU player on the perimeter, then they would both run away from him because they thought they should be guarding someone else. The guy would just shoot an open shot and make it. We need to be more defensively sound this season versus past seasons because you don't have a Derek Cooke, Larry Nance, or Leonard Washington camping in the paint to save your ass if you get beat.
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I agree that James does need to mature more and he will be damn good by the end of this year.

As far as Indiana St. being a bad loss or not I will hold judgement. I am well aware of what they have and don't have coming back this year and what they did last year which was an overall losing record. If I go by the eye test Indiana St. looked horrible but they could improve by the end of the year. Last night any halfway decent team would have handled them.

The problem was Wyoming looked even worse but has room to improve as well.

Not going to expect much but just going to enjoy watching the younger players grow and hopefully be a tough team by the end of the year.
 
My complaint about the offense is it is too passive. The guys who run it the "right way" simply look to make the next pass on the perimeter. Triple threat... Shyatt's offense kind of ignores two of the three threats until there are ten seconds left on the shot clock.

I was happy to see Shyatt change it up in the second half and go with the two man game. This team has shooters, but they're all of the catch and shoot variety. McManamen struggles with shooting when he doesn't have his feet set. He's strictly a role player who is perfect at standing in the corner and knocking down three after three when his guy makes the mistake of overcommitting on help defense. He really excelled in the second half when he was allowed to do his thing.

Overall, the biggest issue this year is the complete lack of an inside presence. None of the bigs have an inside game. Teams are going to pressure the perimeter 110% because no one is a threat at the basket. Barnes has been the only guy who has finished at the basket and he's playing below the rim. Herndon seems left out right now, but he still looks like he weighs 200 pounds if that. I weigh more than Dalton, and McManamen is a guard playing the 4 on occasion. Naughton is simply young.

Shyatt is a good coach. He's going to make adjustments that will get this team some easy points. As annoying as his offense can be, he does take advantage of the predictability. I think we'll see him throw in a few plays to post up guards when Barnes is off the floor. That's really the only way this team is going to see any sort of interior offense. Personally, I would run Adams, Aka Gorski, James, Dalton, and Herndon together and set up whoever has the smallest guard on him, preferably Josh Adams.
 
DVDA said:
My complaint about the offense is it is too passive. The guys who run it the "right way" simply look to make the next pass on the perimeter. Triple threat... Shyatt's offense kind of ignores two of the three threats until there are ten seconds left on the shot clock.

I was happy to see Shyatt change it up in the second half and go with the two man game. This team has shooters, but they're all of the catch and shoot variety. McManamen struggles with shooting when he doesn't have his feet set. He's strictly a role player who is perfect at standing in the corner and knocking down three after three when his guy makes the mistake of overcommitting on help defense. He really excelled in the second half when he was allowed to do his thing.

Overall, the biggest issue this year is the complete lack of an inside presence. None of the bigs have an inside game. Teams are going to pressure the perimeter 110% because no one is a threat at the basket. Barnes has been the only guy who has finished at the basket and he's playing below the rim. Herndon seems left out right now, but he still looks like he weighs 200 pounds if that. I weigh more than Dalton, and McManamen is a guard playing the 4 on occasion. Naughton is simply young.

Shyatt is a good coach. He's going to make adjustments that will get this team some easy points. As annoying as his offense can be, he does take advantage of the predictability. I think we'll see him throw in a few plays to post up guards when Barnes is off the floor. That's really the only way this team is going to see any sort of interior offense. Personally, I would run Adams, Aka Gorski, James, Dalton, and Herndon together and set up whoever has the smallest guard on him, preferably Josh Adams.
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How do we know? We haven't even tried to post anyone up. I bet good things would happen if we let both Barnes and Naughton have at it down low occasionally. I will curl up in the fetal position and weep if I see another game like last night's where we just wait around for 25 seconds and miss wide open threes
 
Honestly, I think you need about 6-9 games in a bball season before getting too nervous or too excited.

Regardless, we definitely need to shoot the ball better.
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
Honestly, I think you need about 6-9 games in a bball season before getting too nervous or too excited.

Regardless, we definitely need to shoot the ball better.
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Football's got me in a sour mood. It stole all my patience :|
 
LanderPoke said:
Football's got me in a sour mood. It stole all my patience :|
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:lol: I hear yah. You know though, for me, the rebuild year in bball doesn't bother or worry me. Shy is a good coach and already built an NCAA team in Laramie. Even his other years (albeit with low SOS) were decent. We haven't had a shit show like with Schroyer and I don't expect this season to be one either.

Honestly, I think a setback year in year 5 or 6 is pretty normal for a rebuild process. The next ceiling will be even higher than what we've seen is my prediction and I think consistency will set in.

Shy has done and will do a hell of a job. He's earned a down year if he needs it.
 
1. It was one goddamned game.

2. The offense this year is obviously different than in years past. There is going to be more "pace and space" to the offense, more pick and roll, more drive-and-kick, more emphasis on three-point shooting. In fact, I'd wager that the shots Shyatt was mad about last night weren't the three point attempts, it was the long twos. So whatever problems you have had with the offense in the last four years of the Shyatt era, you might want to watch this season to see what has changed.
 
Cowduck said:
1. It was one goddamned game.

2. The offense this year is obviously different than in years past. There is going to be more "pace and space" to the offense, more pick and roll, more drive-and-kick, more emphasis on three-point shooting. In fact, I'd wager that the shots Shyatt was mad about last night weren't the three point attempts, it was the long twos. So whatever problems you have had with the offense in the last four years of the Shyatt era, you might want to watch this season to see what has changed.
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Looks like the same old same old except we have no Larry Nance or Leonard Washington down low to bail us out. Hence more threes. And with the caliber of shooters we have that's not a good thing.
 
Cowduck said:
1. It was one goddamned game.

2. The offense this year is obviously different than in years past. There is going to be more "pace and space" to the offense, more pick and roll, more drive-and-kick, more emphasis on three-point shooting. In fact, I'd wager that the shots Shyatt was mad about last night weren't the three point attempts, it was the long twos. So whatever problems you have had with the offense in the last four years of the Shyatt era, you might want to watch this season to see what has changed.
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Did you watch the first half? That was the exact same offense he ran last year. The way they're going to score points will be different since Nance and DC are gone, but it was the exact same offense. The second half Shyatt made things extremely simple by going to a pick and roll game with Josh Adams because the offense was so bad in the first half.
 
I'm not too scared about our offense this year. We're going to be a completely different style of team then we've seen Shyatt have since he's been back. I think we have enough guys that are talented enough to figure out how to navigate the waters. I think this thread should be about our defense. Our D was SOFT as baby shit last night :tickedoff: :tickedoff: :tickedoff: :oops:
 
DVDA said:
Cowduck said:
1. It was one goddamned game.

2. The offense this year is obviously different than in years past. There is going to be more "pace and space" to the offense, more pick and roll, more drive-and-kick, more emphasis on three-point shooting. In fact, I'd wager that the shots Shyatt was mad about last night weren't the three point attempts, it was the long twos. So whatever problems you have had with the offense in the last four years of the Shyatt era, you might want to watch this season to see what has changed.
Click to expand...
Did you watch the first half? That was the exact same offense he ran last year. The way they're going to score points will be different since Nance and DC are gone, but it was the exact same offense. The second half Shyatt made things extremely simple by going to a pick and roll game with Josh Adams because the offense was so bad in the first half.
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I thought he went to "get the ball to Josh and have him create off the drive" because they didn't have anyone who could stay in front of him. That was my main criticism is that the offense was too bogged down, with Josh pounding the ball for several seconds before initiating off the pick and roll or drive. The offense will still be predicated on ball movement first, but you'll see more dribble penetration. I really would like to see Josh off the ball more. I'd rather get him going down hill on closeouts rather than him initiating the offense into a set defense every time down the floor. Set him up with ball movement and get the defense unbalanced before having him shoot or drive.
 
The sooner we get a legitimate second option, be it Marshall or James (OR PLEASE LORD BOTH!) the better off we'll be. What made us successful last year was not that we had a post presence (it didn't hurt either) is that we had 3 players who could consistently score given the opportunity. The defense had to worry about Adams, Nance, and DC. As soon as we get two more players that defenses have to scheme for, we'll do fine. This team will be different than last years and thats ok. They can still do good things this year.
 
I think we have the potential to run all different kinds of offensive sets this year. I mean why not throw Herndon or Dalton on high post with Barnes/Naughton on the low. Even if its not for them specifically you can work on that shit. Hell those dudes can just look to set strong picks off motion and set up our plethora of guard/small forward slasher/shooter options. Then their tall asses are already near the key for offensive boards. They don't need to score much for us to be successful. Hell I'm sure we'd all take 4 to 6 points from any of those guys right now.

Our spread offense shouldn't be discounted either. I think it has strong potential with James, Adams, Mystery Marshall, Gorski, Jmac, Trey, and hell even Liebers. We just need to hit the shots and get some hot hands. Probably have to have a multiple slasher/attackers look to help facilitate shots as well. You could run that with any of our bigs being the one big guy too. Barnes might be our best option. This formation leaves a lot of defensive liability issues and makes me wonder if we drop into half court or full court pressure gambling on our extra speed to get a steal or pressure. If your going D pressure maybe you stick with Herndon or Dalton for more speed.

These are just a few examples too. We really do have 10 or 11 guys that can play. Only 2 or 3 are heads/shoulders above the rest. The next 7 or 8 seem interchangeable. That's not a bad problem too have at all. I think we have multiple offenses worth looking at and trying this year.
 
Another thing that would be super beneficial if we start doing multiple offensive looks is that it becomes harder to game plan against. They might be able to shut down one but have trouble with the other. They might be able to stick with both and then say we get a key guy in foul trouble. We go to the option that exposes the other team more. We don't have to worry about anyone fouling out except Josh Adams.
 
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