New coach press conference.....

[307bball]

I don't think ANYONE would argue that Bohl stuck with Vigen WAAAAY too long and that is Bohl's fault. I also am not sure your assumption that Vigen was going to be here in the OC role if MSU didn't hire him is correct. We'll have to leave that one at speculation both ways.

Your right...that is my assumption. I see no evidence that Bohl was parting ways with him voluntarily.

However, some of the past sentiments about Bohl being responsible for the day-to-day operation of the offense is what's on trial. Blaming Bohl for the play calling is asinine. Vigen ran the offense and Bohl is guilty of sticking with him too long just like Glenn did with Cockhill (again, that point is without question and mind boggling). However, all those who said things like "this is Bohl's playbook and he effectively calls the plays; changing Vigen won't change the offense like changing Stanard did because it is Bohl's system and what he wants; Bohl tells Vigen what to run; etc. etc.".

Wow...the mischaracterization of the argument around this has gotten out of hand.

Does anybody think Bohl hands his OC a play book and says "you run these plays"? The play-calling arguments are just stupid. I thought the argument was around changing the offensive philosophy...not so much the offense specifically. The philosophy of a conservative offense that prioritizes protecting the defense is probably here to stay as long as we have CB at the helm. The funny thing is...we are all pretty much getting what we wanted, Bohl staying with a fresh OC.

It will still be Bohl's offense and Bohl's playbook, so we'll see if it is accurate to convict Bohl of his involvement in the offense beyond sticking with Vigen too long.

I though it was pretty clear from the outset that this is specifically what I'm blaming him for...If anybody is going further, feel free to represent yourself here.

It is also not a strawman to blame at minimum the AD for the failures of the football team. After all, the AD extended Bohl which would be an endorsement of Bohl's team...including the offense.

It is absolutely a straw man to take a cogent argument about Bohl's responsibility to improve upon a glaring weakness and act like it's the same as blaming AD's, Governors, and Voters. Any assertion that my argument has anything to do with that slippery slope is off-base.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

:rofl:

It's blind hate for Vigen. No one will acknowledge the improved line play over the past few years. The focus is on the negative despite the fact that the team is winning games. From what I am watching, this team is not far off from being a damn good ball control offense. I've been critical of Vigen over the years as well but he deserves some credit. This isn't some luck that he developed Jensen, Wentz and Allen. This isn't some luck that the offensive line pushes around an SEC defensive line.

Isn't it obvious to folks that there is not some mile-high wall between offensive style and defensive numbers? If you are a coach like Mike Leach...you are ok with exposing your defense to more chances by the opposing offense because you are confident that your offense has some sort of advantage that you can exploit. If you are a coach like Craig Bohl, part of your defensive success lies in an offensive style that values time of possession and field position. There is another thread that speculated about Bohl as a HC and Stitt as an OC...That's kind of a fun thought experiment but as soon as you take the good and even great defenses under Bohl and expose them to 25% (this is a guess) more possessions...I expect the defensive numbers become more mundane.

It makes complete sense to me what Bohl is trying to do with the offense that Wyoming is using currently...everything works to grind down and bully the opponent. DC's Wyoming teams tried to turn things into a track meet and run teams out of the stadium. I'm fine with whatever style results in W's...I don't have an emotional attachment to one over the other. Nobody would have been more happy than me to see DC succeed with an unstoppable wide-open attack...but it didn't work. That is not a knock on that style of football...just an observation of DC's implementation of it. Us armchair qb's can at least agree on that.

My questions to the fire Vigen crowd:

1. Do you believe that defensive success is connected to offensive style?
2. Do you prefer wide open, up tempo offensive attacks?
3. Is there a pro-style ball control program out there that does it well?

I want to be clear that I'm a wyoming fan first, as I'm sure the "fire Vigen" crowd is...i'm just trying to understand the dislike.

:rofl:

 

[307bball]

@Ragtime...fine...don't meaningfully engage...continue to strawman and obfuscate. Until you make a point that you are willing to stand behind it is obvious you are just going to continue to willfully mischaracterize everybody else.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Or I guess run the best coach we've had since Tiller out of town ironically like we did Tiller

Spot on. This appears what the majority wants even if they don[t say that directly. By micromanaging and dictating to Bohl who is personnel is, you might as well tell Bohl to start looking for a new job. Because I sure as well would be if I were him and being micromanaged and told how I was to run my program.

Once they run off Bohl, then we can suck for another 20 years and run through 3-4 more head coaches until we catch lightning in a bottle again and find a coach that can succeed in Laramie.

Spot on Oredigger.

Agree 1 million percent.

No one wants Bohl gone. We want him to change up the offense. Geez

That's just it this is his offense, Mike Leach could be the OC and Bohl would have him running to the A gap till the cows come home. That's why I brought up the injuries they just about had all the horses to pull it off but the wheels fell off.

If you were a good WR would you want to come to a place where you would rarely get the ball in your hands?

If you were a good running back or a good offensive lineman, would you want to go to a place where the RB gets damn near 30 carries a game and where you can learn almost the same blocking schemes used at the next level?

If you were a QB with pro aspirations, would you want to go a place where the coach has put multiple QBs in the NFL and where you will learn the 5 and 7 step drops from under center?

It works both ways.

Frankly, I never even said the offense was poor. And you take that one step further to state that I said our poor offense was the player's fault when I said nothing about the offensive players at all?!? The offense could be dead last in yards and points per game for all I care as long as the team is winning football games. The offense being run is Bohl's philosophy plain and simple.

We have been competitive in every game this year with a young team and a freshman QB so yea the football program is fine and looks to built for sustained success.

We all know damn well that outside of 2016, the offense has statistically not been producing points and yards. If Bohl thought Vigen was holding the team back or a problem, he probably would have made a change already. Period. And perhaps maybe he still will... but all this ‘fire vigen’ crap is nothing more than saying ‘Bohl doesn’t know what he is doing with offensive hires and we need to tell him how to run the team because we know better than him.’

Love our power run game. Chambers is only a freshman and is showing signs of improvement when it comes to passing. The past couple coaches, even one who was supposed to be an offensive wizard, tried to implement a more passing oriented offense....they didn't work. But, hey, let's fire Vigen because we run the ball.

I mean, we can all scratch our heads about some play calls but to say play calling is suspect, like any of us know anything, is asinine. I also believe those people are wankers. If the jet sweep scored a td, we all whoop and holler for catching them off guard by not running up the gut. Frankly, it’s all about Ws and we’ve dropped two extremely close games.

While the offensive output wasnt high give the staff credit for thinking outside the box and going with a 2 QB system. Williams has it! I said the same thing about Chambers after the USU game last year. We will have 2 good and very athletic QBs for this old Nebraska offense.

I really don’t see the different in winning 34-24 or 17-7. I know it’d make you wankers happy, but there’s zero difference.

"It doesn’t make a difference if you are winning. The problem is there are 4 losses on our record that we could have won if ..." you could finish this this statement in so many ways and it would still be true. There's a huge contingent of fans that will only finish it by pointing it that we have a very low output offense. There are a lot of ways to win/lose football games. Acting like you know why a certain outcome happened is just dumb. Nobody thinks we have a great offense... But people that have a cursory understanding of football understand that our great defensive numbers are not happening in a vacuum. The offense is super conservative and rarely exposes the defense to short field situations... Anybody think that might not be an accident?

I don't think that having the offense game plan involve a more high risk high reward game plan would lead to any more wins, and could lead to more losses. Maybe I'm wrong... Tough to prove. I just know that the wrong level of analysis is to treat offensive output and gameplan as unrelated to defensive success.

We can’t agree. We run a low risk offense plain and simple and that is evidenced by the lack of turnovers. (Other than TVW throwing up the ball this team does not turn it over)

I could go back and find LOTS more, but don't want to waste my time.

AGAIN, nobody argues that Bohl bears responsibility for sticking with Vigen too long. However, to also act as if NOBODY supported Vigen or the offense or was at least ok with it is false.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Back to the original point which still isn't wrong:

We're about to find out who was right: those that said Vigen was the biggest problem or those that thought Vigen wasn't the biggest problem (I called them Vigen fanboys which appears to have not been taken well :lol: ).

 

[307bball]

Back to the original point which still isn't wrong:

We're about to find out who was right: those that said Vigen was the biggest problem or those that thought Vigen wasn't the biggest problem (I called them Vigen fanboys which appears to have not been taken well :lol: ).

Are you confused by that? I see a ton of defense of Bohl in the quotes you posted and zero defense of Vigen. Does this phantom Vigen defender haunt you at night as well...do you see him right now? Take a deep breath and repeat after me....."nobody wanted Vigen to stay"...except maybe CB...lol.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Back to the original point which still isn't wrong:

We're about to find out who was right: those that said Vigen was the biggest problem or those that thought Vigen wasn't the biggest problem (I called them Vigen fanboys which appears to have not been taken well :lol: ).

Are you confused by that? I see a ton of defense of Bohl in the quotes you posted and zero defense of Vigen. Does this phantom Vigen defender haunt you at night as well...do you see him right now? Take a deep breath and repeat after me....."nobody wanted Vigen to stay"...except maybe CB...lol.

Not at all. Call your shot

 

[307bball]

Back to the original point which still isn't wrong:

We're about to find out who was right: those that said Vigen was the biggest problem or those that thought Vigen wasn't the biggest problem (I called them Vigen fanboys which appears to have not been taken well :lol: ).

Are you confused by that? I see a ton of defense of Bohl in the quotes you posted and zero defense of Vigen. Does this phantom Vigen defender haunt you at night as well...do you see him right now? Take a deep breath and repeat after me....."nobody wanted Vigen to stay"...except maybe CB...lol.

Not at all. Call your shot

So...to be clear ...the people who criticize Vigen's ability to function as an OC...they are being called fanboys. I'd hate to see your version of the Vigen detractor... I thought fanboys were generally in favor of the thing they were fanboys of. Either this usage of the term fanboy is new to me or you are misusing the term.

I imagine you could find some pro-Vigen prose from the 2016 season if you really looked for it ... but I'm unaware of it.