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New coach picks

jessejames02

jessejames02

Well-known member
Given the current head coach budget, and the changing landscape, Wyo can be an appealing leap for an up and coming coordinator - which would be my preference.

If we’re able to buy out Bohl this season, where do you want to see our AD pick up a new coach (really need a new AD, but that’s a pipe dream).
 
jessejames02 said:
Given the current head coach budget, and the changing landscape, Wyo can be an appealing leap for an up and coming coordinator - which would be my preference.

If we’re able to buy out Bohl this season, where do you want to see our AD pick up a new coach (really need a new AD, but that’s a pipe dream).
Click to expand...
F-ck the up-and-coming-coordinator sh-t. We need to hire a proven FBS level ass-kicker. Matt Campbell sat on the shelf for another year at Toledo after we hired Bohl. We can easily afford a top MAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, and even some of the AAC head coaches. It's tough enough developing players and being competitive. Time to get a no-assembly-required head coach.
 
It's apparently an unpopular opinion around here, but I think firing Burman is crazy talk. The dude has been a net positive by a wide margin for Wyoming athletics and for the university and community as a whole. That's a whole other discussion though.

As for coaches, I'm all about finding someone else, but it's easier said than done. Laramie is one of the most difficult places in the nation to recruit good player talent to and consistently win at, and it's only going to get tougher in the modern CFB landscape. This isn't a secret, and everyone in coaching circles knows it. Which is part of why the easiest and most assured way of getting a "decent" to "good" coach is hiring a proven FCS coach from a program/community with a similar makeup; that's how we ended up with Bohl in the first place and it's how we got the program stabilized.

Swinging for the fences and taking chances on a sparkly and exciting hire is how we ended up with Dave Christensen. The Bohl hire wasn't bad (in fact it was spectacular; let's not be revisionist); he's just at the end of his time, the game has finally passed him by, he's too defensive-oriented, he's got no answers anymore, and he's too stubborn to admit it. All coaches run out of gas eventually.

So let's not automatically discount "FCS coaches" as a whole.

Ideally, what we need is a younger Craig Bohl with a little more knowledge/understanding of modern CFB offense...or at least the willingness to step outside the box and surround himself with staff who understand what it takes to run a modern offense in CFB and let them do their thing. We also need a coach that relates to the players a bit better, is willing to adjust/change, and isn't loyal to his staff to a fault.

One of the first people that comes up in these conversations is Entz, but he's another defensive coach from the Bohl tree and that scares me a lot. NDSU runs much the same pro-style offenses that Bohl has run; while that works for NDSU and in the FCS in general, we've seen for 9 years that it's not gonna fly here...and only an interview with the man could really tell Burman whether or not he's willing to adjust (and even then, it's still a risk).

Hazelton is on the hot seat at MSU (though he isn't really the only problem; a lot of it falls on Tucker too)and did well at K-State; I'd be more than okay with him coming back and I don't think it would hurt to give him a competitive offer for the HC job and see if he bites.

I wouldn't be opposed to looking at some offensive-minded AAC coaches or coordinators for sure, although the guys at teams moving to the Big 12 probably aren't looking to give up their big payday with the move to P5. The MAC has some solid coaches, but (this year aside) the MWC is a much tougher level of play and nothing is guaranteed. I'm not really familiar with MAC staffs in depth though, other than Hammock (NIU).

Jay Hill is a name that keeps being brought up in extensive conversations on Reddit; tbh I wouldn't be opposed to it. He's done a great job at Weber State and has a massive amount of experience at Utah (his alma mater). Dude has a master's degree in sports psychology as well. He's known as a great defensive and ST coach, but also as a great recruiter; he's younger, and he's coached under some pretty respectable names (Meyer, Whittingham, McBride). Aside from poaching another MWC coach, I think he's probably the best candidate overall.

Alas, as someone mentioned, Bohl isn't getting fired/bought out. We're at the mercy of when he decides to retire. There's a very real possibility that happens this year, but don't hold your breath. We're likely stuck with him through next year.
 
Karl Dorrell just became available. CU fired the head coach and defensive coordinator this morning.
I don't recall so many coaches getting canned mid season. Arizona St. fired Herm Edwards just a few weeks ago.
 
This is all some pretty interesting speculation but it's way too premature to consider it seriously. Bohl is going nowhere, he has the full support of Burman and the entire WYO administration. He will choose to leave when he decides unless the Pokes lose out the rest of the way this season.
 
DamThatRiver22 said:
It's apparently an unpopular opinion around here, but I think firing Burman is crazy talk. The dude has been a net positive by a wide margin for Wyoming athletics and for the university and community as a whole. That's a whole other discussion though.

As for coaches, I'm all about finding someone else, but it's easier said than done. Laramie is one of the most difficult places in the nation to recruit good player talent to and consistently win at, and it's only going to get tougher in the modern CFB landscape. This isn't a secret, and everyone in coaching circles knows it. Which is part of why the easiest and most assured way of getting a "decent" to "good" coach is hiring a proven FCS coach from a program/community with a similar makeup; that's how we ended up with Bohl in the first place and it's how we got the program stabilized.

Swinging for the fences and taking chances on a sparkly and exciting hire is how we ended up with Dave Christensen. The Bohl hire wasn't bad (in fact it was spectacular; let's not be revisionist); he's just at the end of his time, the game has finally passed him by, he's too defensive-oriented, he's got no answers anymore, and he's too stubborn to admit it. All coaches run out of gas eventually.

So let's not automatically discount "FCS coaches" as a whole.

Ideally, what we need is a younger Craig Bohl with a little more knowledge/understanding of modern CFB offense...or at least the willingness to step outside the box and surround himself with staff who understand what it takes to run a modern offense in CFB and let them do their thing. We also need a coach that relates to the players a bit better, is willing to adjust/change, and isn't loyal to his staff to a fault.

One of the first people that comes up in these conversations is Entz, but he's another defensive coach from the Bohl tree and that scares me a lot. NDSU runs much the same pro-style offenses that Bohl has run; while that works for NDSU and in the FCS in general, we've seen for 9 years that it's not gonna fly here...and only an interview with the man could really tell Burman whether or not he's willing to adjust (and even then, it's still a risk).

Hazelton is on the hot seat at MSU (though he isn't really the only problem; a lot of it falls on Tucker too)and did well at K-State; I'd be more than okay with him coming back and I don't think it would hurt to give him a competitive offer for the HC job and see if he bites.

I wouldn't be opposed to looking at some offensive-minded AAC coaches or coordinators for sure, although the guys at teams moving to the Big 12 probably aren't looking to give up their big payday with the move to P5. The MAC has some solid coaches, but (this year aside) the MWC is a much tougher level of play and nothing is guaranteed. I'm not really familiar with MAC staffs in depth though, other than Hammock (NIU).

Jay Hill is a name that keeps being brought up in extensive conversations on Reddit; tbh I wouldn't be opposed to it. He's done a great job at Weber State and has a massive amount of experience at Utah (his alma mater). Dude has a master's degree in sports psychology as well. He's known as a great defensive and ST coach, but also as a great recruiter; he's younger, and he's coached under some pretty respectable names (Meyer, Whittingham, McBride). Aside from poaching another MWC coach, I think he's probably the best candidate overall.

Alas, as someone mentioned, Bohl isn't getting fired/bought out. We're at the mercy of when he decides to retire. There's a very real possibility that happens this year, but don't hold your breath. We're likely stuck with him through next year.
Click to expand...

Very thoughtful and accurate post.
Much to my displeasure we are stuck with Bohl.
The university's administration, Board of Trustees and the athletic director all seem satisfied with Bohl's mediocre performance.
We, the average fan, carry no influence in the matter.
Influence is only generated by those who hold the purse strings. When the money stream lessens, advertisers hold back, ticket sales dwindle, and the media/reporters start asking the hard questions will Bohl's longevity be scrutinized.
 
wypoke said:
DamThatRiver22 said:
It's apparently an unpopular opinion around here, but I think firing Burman is crazy talk. The dude has been a net positive by a wide margin for Wyoming athletics and for the university and community as a whole. That's a whole other discussion though.

As for coaches, I'm all about finding someone else, but it's easier said than done. Laramie is one of the most difficult places in the nation to recruit good player talent to and consistently win at, and it's only going to get tougher in the modern CFB landscape. This isn't a secret, and everyone in coaching circles knows it. Which is part of why the easiest and most assured way of getting a "decent" to "good" coach is hiring a proven FCS coach from a program/community with a similar makeup; that's how we ended up with Bohl in the first place and it's how we got the program stabilized.

Swinging for the fences and taking chances on a sparkly and exciting hire is how we ended up with Dave Christensen. The Bohl hire wasn't bad (in fact it was spectacular; let's not be revisionist); he's just at the end of his time, the game has finally passed him by, he's too defensive-oriented, he's got no answers anymore, and he's too stubborn to admit it. All coaches run out of gas eventually.

So let's not automatically discount "FCS coaches" as a whole.

Ideally, what we need is a younger Craig Bohl with a little more knowledge/understanding of modern CFB offense...or at least the willingness to step outside the box and surround himself with staff who understand what it takes to run a modern offense in CFB and let them do their thing. We also need a coach that relates to the players a bit better, is willing to adjust/change, and isn't loyal to his staff to a fault.

One of the first people that comes up in these conversations is Entz, but he's another defensive coach from the Bohl tree and that scares me a lot. NDSU runs much the same pro-style offenses that Bohl has run; while that works for NDSU and in the FCS in general, we've seen for 9 years that it's not gonna fly here...and only an interview with the man could really tell Burman whether or not he's willing to adjust (and even then, it's still a risk).

Hazelton is on the hot seat at MSU (though he isn't really the only problem; a lot of it falls on Tucker too)and did well at K-State; I'd be more than okay with him coming back and I don't think it would hurt to give him a competitive offer for the HC job and see if he bites.

I wouldn't be opposed to looking at some offensive-minded AAC coaches or coordinators for sure, although the guys at teams moving to the Big 12 probably aren't looking to give up their big payday with the move to P5. The MAC has some solid coaches, but (this year aside) the MWC is a much tougher level of play and nothing is guaranteed. I'm not really familiar with MAC staffs in depth though, other than Hammock (NIU).

Jay Hill is a name that keeps being brought up in extensive conversations on Reddit; tbh I wouldn't be opposed to it. He's done a great job at Weber State and has a massive amount of experience at Utah (his alma mater). Dude has a master's degree in sports psychology as well. He's known as a great defensive and ST coach, but also as a great recruiter; he's younger, and he's coached under some pretty respectable names (Meyer, Whittingham, McBride). Aside from poaching another MWC coach, I think he's probably the best candidate overall.

Alas, as someone mentioned, Bohl isn't getting fired/bought out. We're at the mercy of when he decides to retire. There's a very real possibility that happens this year, but don't hold your breath. We're likely stuck with him through next year.
Click to expand...

Very thoughtful and accurate post.
Much to my displeasure we are stuck with Bohl.
The university's administration, Board of Trustees and the athletic director all seem satisfied with Bohl's mediocre performance.
We, the average fan, carry no influence in the matter.
Influence is only generated by those who hold the purse strings. When the money stream lessens, advertisers hold back, ticket sales dwindle, and the media/reporters start asking the hard questions will Bohl's longevity be scrutinized.
Click to expand...

I can stop buying tickets and concessions, which is what I am going to do. No more súper nachos this football season for me.

Basketball season is almost here.
 
wypoke said:
Very thoughtful and accurate post.
Much to my displeasure we are stuck with Bohl.
The university's administration, Board of Trustees and the athletic director all seem satisfied with Bohl's mediocre performance.
We, the average fan, carry no influence in the matter.
Influence is only generated by those who hold the purse strings. When the money stream lessens, advertisers hold back, ticket sales dwindle, and the media/reporters start asking the hard questions will Bohl's longevity be scrutinized.
Click to expand...

Oh absolutely...this is a point I've made with others recently. Attendance is healthy, and we've quite recently set various attendance records. Everyone seems happy with the branding and marketing, Bohl is still well-respected by his peers, our recruiting is still right where it has been (actually slightly better), and we're still a consistent presence in bowl games. These are the metrics that Burman has to be concerned with, not ranting and analysis from Reddit and Wyonation. Actual championship appearances are an afterthought.

Add that to the fact that the list of coaches both capable and willing is small and competition for them is fierce...I don't really blame Burman for letting this thing ride out, especially with only a year and a half remaining on his contract.

To his credit, he did straight up say that last year's tailspin and conference record were "unacceptable", but I don't think that statement has any teeth all other things considered.

To your point regarding the media...the last couple of years some of our guys have pushed on it a little bit, although they're still beating around the bush. The problem is that one of two things happens: either Bohl bites their heads off, or he avoids the question completely and goes on some rambling tangent describing what schemes we run (as if we don't know or understand). He's stubborn and/or oblivious.

Honestly, I think Bohl himself is surrounded by yes men, which includes certain members of our media (cough Thornburn cough) who like to suck up to him by writing full-length op-eds proclaiming that he's "still the right man for the job in the modern CFB era" even though he's clearly not.
 
The issue as I see it right now is what will Burman do with only 1.5 years remaining on Bohl's contract? Bohl and his staff will not be able to effectively recruit with his status in limbo or being a perceived lame duck coach. In my mind there are only 2 ways to go with this at this season's conclusion. Either Bohl gets re-extended for another few years, or they pay off the last year of his contract and go in a new direction. Gun to my head? It may not be all that popular with many, but I think that Bohl gets a 3 year extension following this season.
 
DamThatRiver22 said:
It's apparently an unpopular opinion around here, but I think firing Burman is crazy talk. The dude has been a net positive by a wide margin for Wyoming athletics and for the university and community as a whole. That's a whole other discussion though.

As for coaches, I'm all about finding someone else, but it's easier said than done. Laramie is one of the most difficult places in the nation to recruit good player talent to and consistently win at, and it's only going to get tougher in the modern CFB landscape. This isn't a secret, and everyone in coaching circles knows it. Which is part of why the easiest and most assured way of getting a "decent" to "good" coach is hiring a proven FCS coach from a program/community with a similar makeup; that's how we ended up with Bohl in the first place and it's how we got the program stabilized.

Swinging for the fences and taking chances on a sparkly and exciting hire is how we ended up with Dave Christensen. The Bohl hire wasn't bad (in fact it was spectacular; let's not be revisionist); he's just at the end of his time, the game has finally passed him by, he's too defensive-oriented, he's got no answers anymore, and he's too stubborn to admit it. All coaches run out of gas eventually.

So let's not automatically discount "FCS coaches" as a whole.

Ideally, what we need is a younger Craig Bohl with a little more knowledge/understanding of modern CFB offense...or at least the willingness to step outside the box and surround himself with staff who understand what it takes to run a modern offense in CFB and let them do their thing. We also need a coach that relates to the players a bit better, is willing to adjust/change, and isn't loyal to his staff to a fault.

One of the first people that comes up in these conversations is Entz, but he's another defensive coach from the Bohl tree and that scares me a lot. NDSU runs much the same pro-style offenses that Bohl has run; while that works for NDSU and in the FCS in general, we've seen for 9 years that it's not gonna fly here...and only an interview with the man could really tell Burman whether or not he's willing to adjust (and even then, it's still a risk).

Hazelton is on the hot seat at MSU (though he isn't really the only problem; a lot of it falls on Tucker too)and did well at K-State; I'd be more than okay with him coming back and I don't think it would hurt to give him a competitive offer for the HC job and see if he bites.

I wouldn't be opposed to looking at some offensive-minded AAC coaches or coordinators for sure, although the guys at teams moving to the Big 12 probably aren't looking to give up their big payday with the move to P5. The MAC has some solid coaches, but (this year aside) the MWC is a much tougher level of play and nothing is guaranteed. I'm not really familiar with MAC staffs in depth though, other than Hammock (NIU).

Jay Hill is a name that keeps being brought up in extensive conversations on Reddit; tbh I wouldn't be opposed to it. He's done a great job at Weber State and has a massive amount of experience at Utah (his alma mater). Dude has a master's degree in sports psychology as well. He's known as a great defensive and ST coach, but also as a great recruiter; he's younger, and he's coached under some pretty respectable names (Meyer, Whittingham, McBride). Aside from poaching another MWC coach, I think he's probably the best candidate overall.

Alas, as someone mentioned, Bohl isn't getting fired/bought out. We're at the mercy of when he decides to retire. There's a very real possibility that happens this year, but don't hold your breath. We're likely stuck with him through next year.
Click to expand...
Doesn't seem that hard to recruit to. Look at the number of players we have had in the NFL recently.

And DC isn't even that much worse than Bohl. I'm sick of the current situation
 
PokesArePeopleToo said:
The issue as I see it right now is what will Burman do with only 1.5 years remaining on Bohl's contract? Bohl and his staff will not be able to effectively recruit with his status in limbo or being a perceived lame duck coach. In my mind there are only 2 ways to go with this at this season's conclusion. Either Bohl gets re-extended for another few years, or they pay off the last year of his contract and go in a new direction. Gun to my head? It may not be all that popular with many, but I think that Bohl gets a 3 year extension following this season.
Click to expand...

I think you are spot on (with 1.5 years on his contract left) - but I thought it was 2.5? Anyone?

If 1.5 is the number, he needs to be let go. Sucks to say that, but enough.
 
LanderPoke said:
Doesn't seem that hard to recruit to. Look at the number of players we have had in the NFL recently.
Click to expand...

One has very little to do with the other.

The vast majority of players we currently have in the NFL were either from the 2016 roster, or are defensive players that we developed. Regarding the latter...Bohl, Hazelton, and Dickert are all excellent at developing defensive talent. But player development is not the same as outright recruiting.

Actual recruiting composite scores at Wyoming have always been midpack at best, bottom tier at worst, in the MWC.

It's not easy to recruit straight up talent to Wyoming. This is a well-known, objective fact backed by actual recruiting statistics. Talent has to be intensely developed here. Bohl is excellent at player development on the defensive and ST sides, but god-awful on the offensive side (for a few reasons)....hence our problems. And the jury is out on Sawvel; there were some concerns when he was hired and those are starting to come to fruition a bit.

As for Bohl not being much better than DC...well, yes and no. I've actually made that point myself a few times, but it's getting harder to make direct comparisons between the two because they've had vastly different length tenures with different circumstances.

Bohl is slightly ahead in recruiting (average recruiting composite scores) and has a far better track record at player development (number of players sent to the NFL), but he's had a lot more time.

Bohl spent two years cleaning up an absolute disaster that DC left behind. But he's also spent years coasting on his 2016 season.

Bohl is far more consistent overall in wins and bowl appearances, but he's also benefited tremendously from far better marketing, facilities, and resources from the university at large than DC ever had.

Bohl is far more likeable as a person, but they both had their issues with player relationships.

Anyway, don't get me wrong, I think Bohl needs to be gone. Was just pointing out the very real fact that Laramie is not a hugely sought after destination for coaches, and also just going after a shiny looking SEC toy like DC is always a risk.

Bohl was an excellent hire and the one we needed at the time, and I'd hate to see us pass over someone like Jay Hill just because they're "FCS coaches" and it's not a flashy/sexy hire to some of you.

Edit: Also, I just double checked...Bohl's contract runs through the end of the 2024 season. I had forgotten about his one-year extension (basically for recruiting purposes). So we may be stuck with him for even longer, unless the bottom completely falls out.
 
Bohl until his contract is up.

After that? Remember when Burman said something like "we can't recruit players to line up and run people over. at WYO we need innovation on offense to compensate for the players we can get"? That is not an exact quote but it was something like that when he hired DC.

Maybe he was right with the philosophy but wrong on the hire?
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
Bohl until his contract is up.

After that? Remember when Burman said something like "we can't recruit players to line up and run people over. at WYO we need innovation on offense to compensate for the players we can get"? That is not an exact quote but it was something like that when he hired DC.

Maybe he was right with the philosophy but wrong on the hire?
Click to expand...

Perhaps. I made that point on the other thread, that there are actually very specific reasons why Bohl runs this exact offensive scheme, and there are very specific reasons why it doesn't work or has a ceiling at a place like Wyoming.

Small schools with recruiting deficiencies and/or small OLs tend to run gimmick offenses to be competitive. Whether it's triple option, spread (basically what DC ran), or even full Air Raid. Hell, even full RPO works better than your old-school pro-style offense if you have the right personnel; our 2016 offense leaned much more towards RPO to take advantage of JA17's skillset and how it made defenses guess.

DC was obviously a bad hire for numerous reasons, which is why his career all but ended at Wyoming. But his schemes in and of themselves were not necessarily the issue.

Bohl was a good hire for numerous reasons, but his schemes (offensively at least) are going to be his downfall.
 
As much as I like the idea of finding a young(ish), established, and winning FBS head coach to take over the program...those candidates aren't looking at MWC as an upgrade and especially not looking at UW as an upgrade. They're going P5. No harm in trying, but those interested in the UW job are up and coming coordinators looking for their first gig or FCS guys. That's just the reality of the situation.
 
BackHarlowRoad said:
As much as I like the idea of finding a young(ish), and established FBS winner to take over the program...those candidates aren't looking at MWC as an upgrade and especially not looking at UW as an upgrade. They're going P5. No harm in trying, but those interested in the UW job are up and coming coordinators looking for their first gig or FCS guys. That's just the reality of the situation.
Click to expand...

Yup. Some MAC coordinator (or AAC coordinator on a team not named Cincy, Houston, or UCF, as they're headed to the B12) will absolutely jump if they're given a fair offer and the keys to the program. Also, there's not a ton of talent there, but I'd have to think even HCs in C-USA or most of the Sun Belt would jump as well. But other than that, you're looking at FCS guys whether you like it or not.

Even currently disgraced coaches at the P5 level (Frost, Edwards, Dorrell) are not looking to come back down to our level. These dudes make a career out of failing upwards, or somehow finding a better fit and being given another chance based on based successes.

Which is why someone like Jay Hill is perfect. Dude is extremely successful in the FCS as a HC, he's extremely educated, he's young, has been named one of the nation's best recruiters in years past, has coached under some big names, has P5 experience....literally checks all the boxes. It's a wonder he hasn't been stolen by another MWC team yet.
 
I read one post on the CU message board after the Dorrell firing that CU won't rest until they're paying 6 coaches simultaneously. It shows how hard it is to find the right guy. Michigan St. gave Mel Tucker an enormous contract and it's already looking like a mistake.

Whatever we do, I can't see hiring anyone from the MAC. We beat the hell out of MAC teams on a regular basis. I haven't been impressed with any MAC program we've played. We've got the same AD that extended Heath Schroyer so I wouldn't expect any changes no matter what the end result is this year. If next year goes south, maybe something happens.
 
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