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Motion to dismiss

OrediggerPoke said:
It is black letter law that you cannot collect full damages from separate sources for the same harm to receive a windfall just because multiple parties might be liable. MWC has to basically prove 2 things: (1) that the combination of exit fees and poaching penalties is a reasonable estimate of actual harm; and (2) that there was some intervening event or change of circumstances which would justify the MWC to seek additional damages from a separate source for a harm that was presumably figured into the original exit fees determination (my suggestion is that the MWC ceasing to exist only became foreseeable after the PAC blew up and after the exit fees were already in place and then the need for additional penalties to mitigate this additional risk/harm).
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I don’t understand your “same harm” term.

Poaching fees and exit fees are different events.
 
The good faith merger clause is going to be an issue for the pac. Why not simply merge and avoid the fees? There must be more value to the pac and all the schools that left than the contractual fees. If their TV deal is worth 4 mill per team per year more than ours, that's 36 mill per year x 5 year contract = 180 mill loss. I don't think the numbers are that much out of line.

The play here is to shift as much of the poaching/exit fee money to the traitors as possible. It's a lot easier to try to shake states down for money to cover the fees for the universities in their state than it is to shake them down to pay money to a conference entity. I don't think osu and certainly not wsu have the money to cover 55 mill.

I'm thinking 35% chance all in favor of MWC.
45% chance of settlement in 100 to 110 mill range.
20% chance all in pac favor but still get 80 mill or so exit penalty.
0% chance the pac gets away AND the traitors don't have pay or even greatly reduced rate for traitors. The traitors won't get out of exit fees or even a substantial reduction.
 
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ragtimejoe1 said:
The good faith merger clause is going to be an issue for the pac. Why not simply merge and avoid the fees? There must be more value to the pac and all the schools that left than the contractual fees. If their TV deal is worth 4 mill per team per year more than ours, that's 36 mill per year x 5 year contract = 180 mill loss. I don't think the numbers are that much out of line.

The play here is to shift as much of the poaching/exit fee money to the traitors as possible. It's a lot easier to try to shake states down for money to cover the fees for the universities in their state than it is to shake them down to pay money to a conference entity. I don't think osu and certainly not wsu have the money to cover 55 mill.

I'm thinking 35% chance all in favor of MWC.
45% chance of settlement in 100 to 110 mill range.
20% chance all in pac favor but still get 80 mill or so exit penalty.
0% chance the pac gets away AND the traitors don't have pay or even greatly reduced rate for traitors. The traitors won't get out of exit fees or even a substantial reduction.
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These are the numbers:

$61 million and the GOR for the 7 remaining members will be satisfied. 24.5% to UNLV and AFA, 11..5% to UW, SJSU, UNM, NEV and 5% to Hawaii.

$82 million pays an additional amount to all 7 members on the same scale as the first $61 million.

Any additional amount above $82 million pays 15.83% to the 6 remaining MWC members with 5% to Hawaii.

These figures are based on the total value of the separate fees/penalties. Breaking down the $145 million:

42% - $61 million
56.6% - $82 milliion
62% - $90 million (100% exit fees collected)

IMO is it’s a huge win for the MWC if they get anything over 60 percent of the $145 total.

I heard somewhere that in mediation the pee12 was adamant about being under 40% in exit fees and nothing for the poaching (to make it costly for the MWC to fulfill the GOR as a play to get UNLV released). The MWC had been around the 70-80% (over $100 million total) range and when the pee12 wouldn’t budge to an agreeable number the MWC said it’s back to 100%.

Nothing would be better than the pee12 having to pay 70% or about $101 million total.

If the pee12 would have agreed to at least 60% plus something for attorney fees I am thinking this would have been a done deal in mediation. OSU and WSU received $65 million from the original P12 in damages for being left out plus they will have received an additional $100 million from the 2 years that remained on the Rose Bowl. Net effect they profited a total of $165 million being left out. I can’t look at it in any other way except that the pee12 is trying to eliminate the MWC as a viable competitor in the west.
 
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What are other specific examples of exit fee reductions? Talk show i listened to made it sound like there's not a lot of wiggle room for the traitors. They agreed that was the value for exit. The pac and double dipping? We'll see but I don't think they're in as strong of position as they think they are. The fact that all the money is required to keep the MWC alive is pretty solid justification that all the money is needed and reasonable.

It's been brought up but no judge is going to rake the MWC over the coals and set precedence for a national firestorm. This isn't athletes vs confetences/ncaa.

We'll know in a year or two, lol.
 
Careful how you describe the ‘PAC.’ These cases are really 3 groups of parties. The leftover MWC teams, the current PAC entity including Washington State and Oregon State, and the departing 5.


This is because Oregon State and Washington State are benefitted from a legal perspective if the departing 5 pay the full exit fees. Likewise, the departing 5 are benefitted from a legal perspective if Oregon State and Washington State and the PAC entity pay the poaching fees.

For all we know, what might be preventing settlement is Oregon State and Washington State taking the position (as they do in their complaint) that the harm suffered is fully compensated by the exit fee obligation of the departing 5.
 
Bear Claw said:
To think. All of this BS could have avoided by merging. Greed is a helluva thing!
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I don’t believe greed was driving this. I believe it is a completely false sense of superiority that institutions like Washington State, Oregon State, San Diego State and Boise State feel that they have over schools like Wyoming and New Mexico.

It is the same thing of the girl who always wears a lot of makeup, doesn’t work hard or treat others right and who sees herself as a 10 but in reality she is only a 5. Soon after high school and when reality hits, she ends up living in a double wide and working at the neighborhood convenience store.
 
OrediggerPoke said:
Careful how you describe the ‘PAC.’ These cases are really 3 groups of parties. The leftover MWC teams, the current PAC entity including Washington State and Oregon State, and the departing 5.


This is because Oregon State and Washington State are benefitted from a legal perspective if the departing 5 pay the full exit fees. Likewise, the departing 5 are benefitted from a legal perspective if Oregon State and Washington State and the PAC entity pay the poaching fees.

For all we know, what might be preventing settlement is Oregon State and Washington State taking the position (as they do in their complaint) that the harm suffered is fully compensated by the exit fee obligation of the departing 5.
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Please explain how the pee2 benefit legally from the fees of the departing 5. Is it because the legal system can determine that the value to the MWC is complete therefore alleviating the pee2 poaching lawsuit? Since these are separate lawsuits if the poaching is denied and the exit fees are significantly reduced will the MWC be able to countersue if the magical $61 million is not obtained?

I do see the logic behind the traitors being “benefited” if the poaching fees are paid because if any of them stayed they would be recipients. But, the day they officially resigned the MWC they according to the bylaws forfeited the right to vote and receive compensation. They then signed the pee12 GOR which offers assistance in exit fee payments.

The traitor lawsuit contends the exit fees are too high and that the addition of GCU caused them a financial hardship even though the MWC is covering all expenses.

This crap about the amount paid for games under duress with Wyoming (and others) only worth $500,000 per game not $2,000,000 per game already benefited the traitors per se so knock off $18,000,000 and pay $37,000,000 for the poaching which occurred before the 2024 season started. The traitors have benefited from the pee2 2024 games compensation so discount them the $7,500,000 they received and you get $82,500,000 owed the MWC.

I know that is too simplistic but we are now talking $119,500,000 as an adjusted poaching/exit cost. The $119.5 million at 70% is $83.6 million. The MWC wins for its members and the pee12 spends only 50% of the $165 million they will be sharing with the new members.

The pee12 is not a broke entity (yet). The pee2 retains ultimate control over everything with veto power as either pee2 can vote no and stop any modification. The pee12 simply wants total domination of the leftover west coast options as they will never compete with the B12, ACC, B10 and SEC. The MWC is their direct and only competition.
 
Bear Claw said:
To think. All of this BS could have avoided by merging. Greed is a helluva thing!
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Greed and ego. OSU is driving this because they believe they are superior. They are “the PAC” and couldn't lower themselves to be MW. Wazoo, went along.

I just don’t see how a court wouldnt see exit fees and harm from poaching members, in a contract, reviewed by attorneys- cant be enforced to some degree. I see them as to separate issues.
 
PorkerPoke said:
Please explain how the pee2 benefit legally from the fees of the departing 5. Is it because the legal system can determine that the value to the MWC is complete therefore alleviating the pee2 poaching lawsuit? Since these are separate lawsuits if the poaching is denied and the exit fees are significantly reduced will the MWC be able to countersue if the magical $61 million is not obtained?

I do see the logic behind the traitors being “benefited” if the poaching fees are paid because if any of them stayed they would be recipients. But, the day they officially resigned the MWC they according to the bylaws forfeited the right to vote and receive compensation. They then signed the pee12 GOR which offers assistance in exit fee payments.

The traitor lawsuit contends the exit fees are too high and that the addition of GCU caused them a financial hardship even though the MWC is covering all expenses.

This crap about the amount paid for games under duress with Wyoming (and others) only worth $500,000 per game not $2,000,000 per game already benefited the traitors per se so knock off $18,000,000 and pay $37,000,000 for the poaching which occurred before the 2024 season started. The traitors have benefited from the pee2 2024 games compensation so discount them the $7,500,000 they received and you get $82,500,000 owed the MWC.

I know that is too simplistic but we are now talking $119,500,000 as an adjusted poaching/exit cost. The $119.5 million at 70% is $83.6 million. The MWC wins for its members and the pee12 spends only 50% of the $165 million they will be sharing with the new members.

The pee12 is not a broke entity (yet). The pee2 retains ultimate control over everything with veto power as either pee2 can vote no and stop any modification. The pee12 simply wants total domination of the leftover west coast options as they will never compete with the B12, ACC, B10 and SEC. The MWC is their direct and only competition.
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Wasnt Oregon St and WSU granted full decision making, and funds, by a court, once the other members announced their intention leave the PAC?
 
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