Montana Game

[stymeman]

Hooooray, a W is a W esp at a tough place to play, can't wait to see them against SDSU (South Dakota St) this weekend!!!

 

[Wyovanian]

Some good post-game comments. I also only listened and watched gametracker for stats. Good to see JJ come around and show what he can do. WYO needs his offensive ability -- particularly inside the arc. With Naughton in very early foul trouble last night (first two minutes), I'm really disappointed that a big body like Barnes hasn't developed to the point where Edwards feels comfortable putting him in the game to bang down low.

Solid road win over the #2 media pick in the Big Sky. Take it and run. Pokes need to pick it up on the defensive end, though. Montana shot 49.1% from the field and 56.4% (22 for 39) from inside the arc. NOT GOOD.

They put on a display against our bigs. Herndon and Dalton did not look great against the smaller defenders most of the night.

Edwards and the players will need to get this figured out and I expect they will.

I'll take your word for it on in-game performance. I hope they get it figured out quickly. Offensively, we also took more shots from outside the arc (28) than inside the arc (25). An old-school hoops fan like me gets a little disturbed at numbers like that. Live by the three, die by the three. At least we have several guys who can drain the long ball with some consistency, when needed.

That's what I saw- we have a height advantage and we're playing like a team that needs low-percentage shots to gain an advantage. We also looked downright slow from the point and way too many of our low-percentage shots were fired at the rim instead of being arced in.

This team's youth is very evident. Glad we got the win, but there was a heavy dose of luck in that one. Luck always runs out...

 

[Cowboy Junky]

It's interesting to track how many teams Wyoming has had an advantage over because of our length. Western State got dominated because of it. Montana lost at home because they can't cover tall wings.

We're going to have a length advantage on most teams we play this year.

 

[joshvanklomp]

We're going to have a length advantage on most teams we play this year.

Which is a nice departure from recent seasons

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

It's interesting to track how many teams Wyoming has had an advantage over because of our length. Western State got dominated because of it. Montana lost at home because they can't cover tall wings.

We're going to have a length advantage on most teams we play this year.

Hopefully we learn how to cover......anybody. Of that whatever advantages we have will be for not. There was a lot of good on display last night but there is some bad that has be quite concerned. There is no reason our "bigs" should be absolutely manhandled and flat out outplayed by two true freshmen 4 inches shorter than them. I am not talking our guys missed an assignment or two. Those Montana kids posted us up, went around us, went through, cut by us all night long. If we play even slightly decent interior defense we win that game by 15.

 

[Cowboy Junky]

It's interesting to track how many teams Wyoming has had an advantage over because of our length. Western State got dominated because of it. Montana lost at home because they can't cover tall wings.

We're going to have a length advantage on most teams we play this year.

Hopefully we learn how to cover......anybody. Of that whatever advantages we have will be for not. There was a lot of good on display last night but there is some bad that has be quite concerned. There is no reason our "bigs" should be absolutely manhandled and flat out outplayed by two true freshmen 4 inches shorter than them. I am not talking our guys missed an assignment or two. Those Montana kids posted us up, went around us, went through, cut by us all night long. If we play even slightly decent interior defense we win that game by 15.

Did you really just say, "Hopefully we learn to cover......anybody"?

This is a basketball team that was raised by Shy, has a tree full of Shy disciples, and values the same principles as Shy.

I didn't watch the game, but I don't have to. I listened to it on the radio. Our most physical post player got 4 minutes because of foul trouble. The refs called 50 fouls. They didn't let anyone play defense.

We beat Montana on the road, something Boise's senior laden team couldn't do last season.

We won the game on a blocked shot. Does that count as "even slightly decent interior defense"?

 

[Wyovanian]

It's interesting to track how many teams Wyoming has had an advantage over because of our length. Western State got dominated because of it. Montana lost at home because they can't cover tall wings.

We're going to have a length advantage on most teams we play this year.

True, but we should have a game plan that plays to that advantage.

 

[Wyovanian]

It's interesting to track how many teams Wyoming has had an advantage over because of our length. Western State got dominated because of it. Montana lost at home because they can't cover tall wings.

We're going to have a length advantage on most teams we play this year.

Hopefully we learn how to cover......anybody. Of that whatever advantages we have will be for not. There was a lot of good on display last night but there is some bad that has be quite concerned. There is no reason our "bigs" should be absolutely manhandled and flat out outplayed by two true freshmen 4 inches shorter than them. I am not talking our guys missed an assignment or two. Those Montana kids posted us up, went around us, went through, cut by us all night long. If we play even slightly decent interior defense we win that game by 15.

Did you really just say, "Hopefully we learn to cover......anybody"?

This is a basketball team that was raised by Shy, has a tree full of Shy disciples, and values the same principles as Shy.

I didn't watch the game, but I don't have to. I listened to it on the radio. Our most physical post player got 4 minutes because of foul trouble. The refs called 50 fouls. They didn't let anyone play defense.

We beat Montana on the road, something Boise's senior laden team couldn't do last season.

We won the game on a blocked shot. Does that count as "even slightly decent interior defense"?

I watched the game, Junky. We got lucky. Montana was the more impressive team in play...

 

[Cowboy Junky]

We beat a good team on the road while missing Louis Adams to injury, Jordan Naughton to foul trouble, and while the refs were calling every little bit of contact.

There's no reason to act like a drama queen and say we can't defend anyone. We can. We will. We have.

 

[NowherePoke]

We beat a good team on the road while missing Louis Adams to injury, Jordan Naughton to foul trouble, and while the refs were calling every little bit of contact.

There's no reason to act like a drama queen and say we can't defend anyone. We can. We will. We have.

Mmm, I don't know. We were pretty bad last year defensively and this year looks to be more of the same. Obviously saying we can't defend anyone is being a little overly dramatic, but we really do struggle on the defensive end. We lack quickness around the perimeter and we lack bulk and rim protection in the front court.

Last night was an interesting game. We got abused in the paint, but some of it was their small forward (Samuelson) taking turns posting up McManamen, James, and Gorski. It wasn't just their big men going to work on Dalton and Herndon (although that did happen to). Edwards stuck with Herndon/Dalton as our front court for nearly the entire 2nd half. I am not sure if he was concerned about Naughton's ability to chase the smaller, quicker, Montana frontcourt or what.

The other interesting thing about last night's rotation is that one lineup configuration we speculated might happen (lineups without a traditional PG) were used extensively. James/JMac/Gorski was our perimeter trio for long stretches. I think if Adams hadn't gotten hurt he probably would have been part of that as well. If Adams recovers quickly I can see Lieberman's minutes being reduced quite a bit in favor of lineups with 3 wing players.

I kind of want to see more Morris Marshall. I know that is a very November 2015 take, but even in very limited minutes he jumps out when I watch him. We have an abundance of productive wings. Look for Edwards to go with the "play the best players" type philosophy and some unusual lineups as a result.

I tend to think of this year as being more of a building year, so I am trying to evaluate the team in the context of what we need to do to become really good over the next couple of years. To me, there are two keys:

1. Development of Naughton/Moemeka - Herndon and Dalton are both skilled players and should form a rotation at the "4" spot. What will make a difference is how quickly Naughton and Moemeka progress in terms of defense and rebounding. Dalton/Herndon are never going to be able to physically hold their position in the post. We have to have some type of physical presence and rim protection alongside them. Can Naughton/Moemeka deliver that? Obviously Moemeka isn't ready yet, but can he develop in spot minutes this season to the point where he is a rotational asset next year? For Naughton, he is obviously much further along and I think will establish himself as a program cornerstone, but we need that to be on both sides of the court.

2. Ball Handling Guard - Call it PG or whatever you want, but we need someone with the ability to break the defense down off the dribble and create plays for others and maybe more importantly we need someone with the quickness to stay in front of those types of players. It's a big hole in our roster right now and I don't think we have "that" player on the roster or among our signees. If, and it's a big if, we see any attrition next spring, I think a JUCO PG will be the priority.



A win at Montana is a good win, but we have to play better defensively or this will be a long year.

 

[Wyovanian]

We beat a good team on the road while missing Louis Adams to injury, Jordan Naughton to foul trouble, and while the refs were calling every little bit of contact.

There's no reason to act like a drama queen and say we can't defend anyone. We can. We will. We have.

I guess one person's semi-objective, rational analysis is another person's "drama"...

 

[Cowboy Junky]

We beat a good team on the road while missing Louis Adams to injury, Jordan Naughton to foul trouble, and while the refs were calling every little bit of contact.

There's no reason to act like a drama queen and say we can't defend anyone. We can. We will. We have.

I guess one person's semi-objective, rational analysis is another person's "drama"...

No, saying we "can't cover anyone" is exaggeration, or acting like a drama queen......the world is ending crap.

Saying, "Hopefully we learn how to cover......anybody" or if we played, ""even slightly decent interior defense", is acting like a drama queen.

Both of those things are huge exaggerations.

 

[Cowboy Junky]

We beat a good team on the road while missing Louis Adams to injury, Jordan Naughton to foul trouble, and while the refs were calling every little bit of contact.

There's no reason to act like a drama queen and say we can't defend anyone. We can. We will. We have.

Mmm, I don't know. We were pretty bad last year defensively and this year looks to be more of the same. Obviously saying we can't defend anyone is being a little overly dramatic, but we really do struggle on the defensive end. We lack quickness around the perimeter and we lack bulk and rim protection in the front court.

Last night was an interesting game. We got abused in the paint, but some of it was their small forward (Samuelson) taking turns posting up McManamen, James, and Gorski. It wasn't just their big men going to work on Dalton and Herndon (although that did happen to). Edwards stuck with Herndon/Dalton as our front court for nearly the entire 2nd half. I am not sure if he was concerned about Naughton's ability to chase the smaller, quicker, Montana frontcourt or what.

The other interesting thing about last night's rotation is that one lineup configuration we speculated might happen (lineups without a traditional PG) were used extensively. James/JMac/Gorski was our perimeter trio for long stretches. I think if Adams hadn't gotten hurt he probably would have been part of that as well. If Adams recovers quickly I can see Lieberman's minutes being reduced quite a bit in favor of lineups with 3 wing players.

I kind of want to see more Morris Marshall. I know that is a very November 2015 take, but even in very limited minutes he jumps out when I watch him. We have an abundance of productive wings. Look for Edwards to go with the "play the best players" type philosophy and some unusual lineups as a result.

I tend to think of this year as being more of a building year, so I am trying to evaluate the team in the context of what we need to do to become really good over the next couple of years. To me, there are two keys:

1. Development of Naughton/Moemeka - Herndon and Dalton are both skilled players and should form a rotation at the "4" spot. What will make a difference is how quickly Naughton and Moemeka progress in terms of defense and rebounding. Dalton/Herndon are never going to be able to physically hold their position in the post. We have to have some type of physical presence and rim protection alongside them. Can Naughton/Moemeka deliver that? Obviously Moemeka isn't ready yet, but can he develop in spot minutes this season to the point where he is a rotational asset next year? For Naughton, he is obviously much further along and I think will establish himself as a program cornerstone, but we need that to be on both sides of the court.

2. Ball Handling Guard - Call it PG or whatever you want, but we need someone with the ability to break the defense down off the dribble and create plays for others and maybe more importantly we need someone with the quickness to stay in front of those types of players. It's a big hole in our roster right now and I don't think we have "that" player on the roster or among our signees. If, and it's a big if, we see any attrition next spring, I think a JUCO PG will be the priority.



A win at Montana is a good win, but we have to play better defensively or this will be a long year.

We're definitely thin at the guard spot defensively. That's where we miss Austin Conway leaving the program. With Louis Adams hurt, it becomes a crisis.

I just think it's a little too early in the season to say our team can't cover anyone.

 

[MrTitleist]

Skyline Sports gamer from my buddy Kyle: http://skylinesportsmt.com/griz-lose-to-wyoming/

So did you go to the game with one of those 1/2 and 1/2 shirts??

I'd have to kick my own ass if I did that.

So, a yes then. Good to know.

The only half and half I do is half vodka, half tonic.

 

[Wyo2dal]

Skyline Sports gamer from my buddy Kyle: http://skylinesportsmt.com/griz-lose-to-wyoming/

So did you go to the game with one of those 1/2 and 1/2 shirts??

I'd have to kick my own ass if I did that.

So, a yes then. Good to know.

The only half and half I do is half vodka, half tonic.

I'm with you just water instead of tonic and no well vodka please.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

We beat a good team on the road while missing Louis Adams to injury, Jordan Naughton to foul trouble, and while the refs were calling every little bit of contact.

There's no reason to act like a drama queen and say we can't defend anyone. We can. We will. We have.

I guess one person's semi-objective, rational analysis is another person's "drama"...

No, saying we "can't cover anyone" is exaggeration, or acting like a drama queen......the world is ending crap.

Saying, "Hopefully we learn how to cover......anybody" or if we played, ""even slightly decent interior defense", is acting like a drama queen.

Both of those things are huge exaggerations.

Or is it the truth as I actually watched the game. It's not dramatic to say Herndon has no place on the court as a 4 or 5.... I would venture a guess that Edwards feels some agreement towards that as he played him at a "PG" type position. We desperately need his height but he is not good on the post. At all. He has no post moves, struggles with guarding the post and really isn't an athletic jumper.

EDIT: And my comment about guarding anyone wasn't specifically towards only Herndon. Dalton got exposed. James was awful guarding Roarie, Lieberman was a step slower than their guards, and Kelley shouldn't step foot on the court. Honestly, JMac is the only one so far I haven't seen out of position or trying to do too much. He really seems to be letting the game come to him so far. He looks like a senior.

 

[joshvanklomp]

We are not going to bully anyone in the post on offense or defense. If that's what you were expecting this season, prepare to be disappointed. Outside of Jordan Naughton, that's not going to be our style. And really, if you look at the roster construction as a whole, I'm starting to wonder if that's by design.

210
210
185
225

These are the weights of the guys who logged time in the game. And outside of Naughton (the 225), none of them have much post game and rely more on quickness than strength. How about future reinforcements? Think the 220 lb Jones or the 200 lb Mueller will be strong inside on either side of the court?

Gone are the days of Shyatt's attempts at a more traditional post lineup. Heck, the skinny Derek Cooke was bigger and stronger than many of our current posts. This is turning into a 4 out-1 in system, and we played 90% of the game without the 1 in. Obviously it's going to look like we got bullied in the post.

I watched the game too. Don't insult me or the others who did by insinuating that you know more about this team than the rest of us.

You say James was awful guarding Rorie, but yet he held him to just 3-11 FGs. Had to be doing something right....

 

[JimmyDimes]

The Pokes played a gritty game and did what they needed to do...WIN. Montana shot the ball well, but still lost. And, lost to a team without their starting center, staring pg, and key bench player. If that is enough to draw conclusions about not being able to guard other teams, then IMO, that is short sighted and unfair to the players.

Montana was playing their first home game after losing to USC on the road. Give them credit for trying to get a win at home and playing solid D.

I think the ceiling is higher than many are giving the team credit for. They will need to play better, but it is easy to tell they are trying to get comfortable with a faster pace. Improvement will come.

Patience grasshoppers.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

We are not going to bully anyone in the post on offense or defense. If that's what you were expecting this season, prepare to be disappointed. Outside of Jordan Naughton, that's not going to be our style. And really, if you look at the roster construction as a whole, I'm starting to wonder if that's by design.

210
210
185
225

These are the weights of the guys who logged time in the game. And outside of Naughton (the 225), none of them have much post game and rely more on quickness than strength. How about future reinforcements? Think the 220 lb Jones or the 200 lb Mueller will be strong inside on either side of the court?

Gone are the days of Shyatt's attempts at a more traditional post lineup. Heck, the skinny Derek Cooke was bigger and stronger than many of our current posts. This is turning into a 4 out-1 in system, and we played 90% of the game without the 1 in. Obviously it's going to look like we got bullied in the post.

I watched the game too. Don't insult me or the others who did by insinuating that you know more about this team than the rest of us.

You say James was awful guarding Rorie, but yet he held him to just 3-11 FGs. Had to be doing something right....

I'm not insulting anyone. No were not constructed to bully people in the post. News flash, I know that. It's not like we have been stocked with power post monsters and suddenly we're not. We have been lacking since Nance and Cooke left. But it is unacceptable to be dominated like we were on the interior by undersized true freshmen.

 

[joshvanklomp]

We have been lacking since Nance and Cooke left. But it is unacceptable to be dominated like we were on the interior by undersized true freshmen.

That true freshman is still heavier than all the posts who played sans Naughton.