Is it really a better system?

[Slow Hand]

First off I know that this is only the first year and I don't expect miracles to happen. But I just would like to offer a very brief analysis of two different systems in the spread and the Pro style offenses. When we hired Bohl and Co the sentiment was that we will hold teams down and grind it out in the end (finish games). Although this may have been the case in a few games here is the reality of it all. Last year under a Spread concept we scored 405 points. This year under a Pro Style we have scored 223 (with one game left). Last year under the spread concept we gave up 440 points. This year under the Pro Style we have given up 363 ( with one game to go).

So my argument here is the same thing I have said all along....Time of Possession is not an indicator of success. We have held on to the ball three times as long this year than last yet we scored less. Hmmm! In addition we have limited the time our defense has been on the field but given up a similar number of points (by the time it is all said and done) The irony here is that the number of injuries of the defensive side of the ball has increased over last year yet their time on the field has decreased. Statistically we are worse than we were under DC.

Draw your own conclusions if you want and feel free to add other variables but as of right now I would say that we are worse than we were last year. I hope it gets better because it damn sure isn't as fun to watch as an uptempo game. And for all of you old timers out there Defense doesn't win championships scoring points is what wins!

 

[fromolwyoming]

So, you expect to score more while holding on to the ball considerably longer in order to keep the defense healthy? Especially with an inherited team that was recruited for the spread and not the pro style? Everyone with any form of common sense KNEW this year and at least next year would be rebuilding years. That means finding and recruiting players to fit the offensive and defensive play styles. Bohl and staff even said not to expect to get into shootouts, but to expect low scoring and grind 'em out games more like 20-17 that 42-35.

But contrary to what your 1st sentence said, you clearly expected Bohl to turn everything around in year 1. Or you are so eager to get rid of him and switch to some stupid offense that you will go to any lengths to try and discredit him before he's even really had a chance. Otherwise, you would not be posting this thing so often and so adamantly.

 

[JohnnySunshine]

Last year you had players that fit the system you were trying to implement. Bohl is trying to play a system with the wrong players. He runs a very TE/FB heavy system and you guys didn't even have a legitimate TE/FB on your roster.

I don't think it's fair to sit and try to compare the two when 1 system you are playing has the players it needs and has been implemented already, while the other system has players that don't fit and guys that are still learning.


TOP is an indicator of success when you have players that can run it, along with a defense that can control the LOS.

How many championships have you won with the high schoring offense you had the last couple years? Zero?

 

[JohnnySunshine]

Also I think the original poster didn't do his homework on Bohl, because when Bohl ran his system at NDSU he ran both a pro style and spread system, and scored more than enough points to win. His sytem averaged like 42 points last year.

 

[WestWYOPoke]

Draw your own conclusions if you want and feel free to add other variables but as of right now I would say that we are worse than we were last year. I hope it gets better because it damn sure isn't as fun to watch as an uptempo game. And for all of you old timers out there Defense doesn't win championships scoring points is what wins!

Seems to work alright for Alabama, their offense is never anything spectacular or flashy, but their defenses are ridiculously good.

 

[Slow Hand]

So, you expect to score more while holding on to the ball considerably longer in order to keep the defense healthy? Especially with an inherited team that was recruited for the spread and not the pro style? Everyone with any form of common sense KNEW this year and at least next year would be rebuilding years. That means finding and recruiting players to fit the offensive and defensive play styles. Bohl and staff even said not to expect to get into shootouts, but to expect low scoring and grind 'em out games more like 20-17 that 42-35.

But contrary to what your 1st sentence said, you clearly expected Bohl to turn everything around in year 1. Or you are so eager to get rid of him and switch to some stupid offense that you will go to any lengths to try and discredit him before he's even really had a chance. Otherwise, you would not be posting this thing so often and so adamantly.

Maybe I wasn't clear with my statement. I would argue that we would have been better off finding a spread style coach that could instill the same cowboy tough principals. Then at least you could have worked with a component of the left over regime. AS it stands we were doomed to get worse before we could get better. Finally even when it gets better my assertion is that it will only be marginally better.

I am simply stating a pro-style offense "grind and pound" will not produce a marked increase in the outcomes of games. It is all formulas and equations if you will.... but the bottom line is you have to score more than you give up. My other point is all of the people that stated we were losing because we were putting the defense on the field longer are full of it. Here is a thought how about keep the same system and recruit better defenders because our offense was at least on par with other teams last year.

 

[Slow Hand]

Draw your own conclusions if you want and feel free to add other variables but as of right now I would say that we are worse than we were last year. I hope it gets better because it damn sure isn't as fun to watch as an uptempo game. And for all of you old timers out there Defense doesn't win championships scoring points is what wins!

Seems to work alright for Alabama, their offense is never anything spectacular or flashy, but their defenses are ridiculously good.

you can't be serious....do you really think we can recruit the same level of athletes as Alabama? See her e is part of the problem most people have no idea about who we can recruit. There is no way you will ever get the same level of athleticism in Wyoming as you do in Alabama. The spread equalizes talent by position. You can get a few select athletes in space to make plays.

 

[Slow Hand]

Also I think the original poster didn't do his homework on Bohl, because when Bohl ran his system at NDSU he ran both a pro style and spread system, and scored more than enough points to win. His sytem averaged like 42 points last year.

This is only partially true. Bohl might have spread his sets but he still ran a west coast offense. The difference is that he relied on man to man match ups to take advantage of defenders rather than forcing the defenders to play a zone scheme. He just waited until they loaded the box on him then they would attack the zero coverage on the perimeter. So your statement is not true.

 

[JimmyDimes]

Draw your own conclusions if you want and feel free to add other variables but as of right now I would say that we are worse than we were last year. I hope it gets better because it damn sure isn't as fun to watch as an uptempo game. And for all of you old timers out there Defense doesn't win championships scoring points is what wins!

Seems to work alright for Alabama, their offense is never anything spectacular or flashy, but their defenses are ridiculously good.

you can't be serious....do you really think we can recruit the same level of athletes as Alabama? See her e is part of the problem most people have no idea about who we can recruit. There is no way you will ever get the same level of athleticism in Wyoming as you do in Alabama. The spread equalizes talent by position. You can get a few select athletes in space to make plays.

He was 7-3 against BCS teams all on the road playing NDSU level of athletes. That includes wins at Minnesota, Iowa State, Kansas, and Kansas State. He needs more than 3/4 of a year to implement his system. He needs to get the type of player he wants to run his systems in place. He needs the out of shape players from the previous regime to get stronger and in better shape. He needs time.

 

[LanderPoke]

All I have to day is give it some damn time. Bohl is a proven winner and we need to have faith and give him our support. His system is fine, he just doesn't have his guys yet.

 

[JohnnySunshine]

Also I think the original poster didn't do his homework on Bohl, because when Bohl ran his system at NDSU he ran both a pro style and spread system, and scored more than enough points to win. His sytem averaged like 42 points last year.

This is only partially true. Bohl might have spread his sets but he still ran a west coast offense. The difference is that he relied on man to man match ups to take advantage of defenders rather than forcing the defenders to play a zone scheme. He just waited until they loaded the box on him then they would attack the zero coverage on the perimeter. So your statement is not true.

Bohl spread it out last year almost equally until they got a 2 or 3 TD lead. And then came the "ground and pound" you are referring to. And they still scored hella points. So your not very knowledgable on what exactly Bohl's offense is. He isn't going to "ground and pound" all game if he has the players. If the coach before Bohl actually recruited a QB other than the starter you wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Why did you completely ignore the fact that Bohl doesn't even have his type of players on offense yet you think it's a good idea to get an accurate comparable?

 

[LanderPoke]

you can't be serious....do you really think we can recruit the same level of athletes as Alabama? See her e is part of the problem most people have no idea about who we can recruit. There is no way you will ever get the same level of athleticism in Wyoming as you do in Alabama. The spread equalizes talent by position. You can get a few select athletes in space to make plays.

We don't need or could we expect to get the same quality of players here at WYO as Alabama, true. But, here is the good thing, we don't need those players because we are not playing in the SEC. We just need to keep up with the MWC in terms of recruiting.

 

[JohnnySunshine]

I watch all your games because I won't you guys to be good under Bohl. This year there was definitely some tough moments.

I also remember an interview with one of your defensive players talking about the different styles, and saying how much nicer it is this year that the offense actually gives the defense a break with longer possessions, instead of the 2 or 3 minute drives they would have in the past and then the defense would be completely gassed by halftime.

That's part of why defensive minded coaches want to control the time of possession.

 

[fromolwyoming]

Maybe I wasn't clear with my statement. I would argue that we would have been better off finding a spread style coach that could instill the same cowboy tough principals. Then at least you could have worked with a component of the left over regime. AS it stands we were doomed to get worse before we could get better. Finally even when it gets better my assertion is that it will only be marginally better.

EVERYONE knew it was going to be painful, I said that. Everyone else on here said that and knew that EXCEPT you. And what do you base your "assertion" on? Your personal opinion on how much you seem to hate the pro-style offense? Because that's the only thing I can see.

I am simply stating a pro-style offense "grind and pound" will not produce a marked increase in the outcomes of games. It is all formulas and equations if you will.... but the bottom line is you have to score more than you give up.

Well no shit, Sherlock. It took "formulas and equations" for you figure out that we need to score more than the other team to win? Now you are just coming across as stupid.

My other point is all of the people that stated we were losing because we were putting the defense on the field longer are full of it. Here is a thought how about keep the same system and recruit better defenders because our offense was at least on par with other teams last year.

It was? Our o-line could not block for shit, and despite Brett Smith being a very elusive QB, he got sacked a LOT. Our offense stalled so many times, that our defense was gassed half way through the season. Any team that had any semblance of a defense just mauled us. Even 3 man rushes got pressure.

Switching to the prostyle offense takes time, but you are obviously not willing to give them a chance. The pro-style works at schools like Alabama and SDSU, among others. And it plainly works in the NFL. But you ignore those because they are inconvenient to your "position" and show you are wrong. Given time and the right staff and players, it can be successful. but you are not willing to give the staff time. You judge them on 1 year and use that as your evidence, which is horseshit.

 

[joshvanklomp]

I think the system's success boils down to one thing: success on 3rd down.

So far, the Pokes have converted just 38% of third downs, 82nd in the country. By comparison, last year at NDSU, his team converted 55% of third downs. Against Fresno State, Wyoming was 10-15.

When that improves, the Cowboys will win.

 

[Slow Hand]

Also I think the original poster didn't do his homework on Bohl, because when Bohl ran his system at NDSU he ran both a pro style and spread system, and scored more than enough points to win. His sytem averaged like 42 points last year.

This is only partially true. Bohl might have spread his sets but he still ran a west coast offense. The difference is that he relied on man to man match ups to take advantage of defenders rather than forcing the defenders to play a zone scheme. He just waited until they loaded the box on him then they would attack the zero coverage on the perimeter. So your statement is not true.

Bohl spread it out last year almost equally until they got a 2 or 3 TD lead. And then came the "ground and pound" you are referring to. And they still scored hella points. So your not very knowledgable on what exactly Bohl's offense is. He isn't going to "ground and pound" all game if he has the players. If the coach before Bohl actually recruited a QB other than the starter you wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Why did you completely ignore the fact that Bohl doesn't even have his type of players on offense yet you think it's a good idea to get an accurate comparable?

"spreading it out" and running a Spread Offense are two different animals. You are showing your ignorance of offensive styles.

 

[Slow Hand]

Maybe I wasn't clear with my statement. I would argue that we would have been better off finding a spread style coach that could instill the same cowboy tough principals. Then at least you could have worked with a component of the left over regime. AS it stands we were doomed to get worse before we could get better. Finally even when it gets better my assertion is that it will only be marginally better.

EVERYONE knew it was going to be painful, I said that. Everyone else on here said that and knew that EXCEPT you. And what do you base your "assertion" on? Your personal opinion on how much you seem to hate the pro-style offense? Because that's the only thing I can see.

I am simply stating a pro-style offense "grind and pound" will not produce a marked increase in the outcomes of games. It is all formulas and equations if you will.... but the bottom line is you have to score more than you give up.

Well no shit, Sherlock. It took "formulas and equations" for you figure out that we need to score more than the other team to win? Now you are just coming across as stupid.

My other point is all of the people that stated we were losing because we were putting the defense on the field longer are full of it. Here is a thought how about keep the same system and recruit better defenders because our offense was at least on par with other teams last year.

It was? Our o-line could not block for shit, and despite Brett Smith being a very elusive QB, he got sacked a LOT. Our offense stalled so many times, that our defense was gassed half way through the season. Any team that had any semblance of a defense just mauled us. Even 3 man rushes got pressure.

Switching to the prostyle offense takes time, but you are obviously not willing to give them a chance. The pro-style works at schools like Alabama and SDSU, among others. And it plainly works in the NFL. But you ignore those because they are inconvenient to your "position" and show you are wrong. Given time and the right staff and players, it can be successful. but you are not willing to give the staff time. You judge them on 1 year and use that as your evidence, which is horseshit.

Your frustration is becoming obvious. Alabama is not Wyoming and the pros definitely are not. If it is your aspiration to be like SDSU then so be it. I am not here to attack you or anyone else on this form. I am just stating an opinion, that obviously offends you and for that I am profoundly sorry. Once again my opinion is that the Spread is a better fit for Wyoming than the Pro Style. Nothing against Bohl, I think he is an honorable man and has the kids bets interest at heart. Hell I would be fine if he implemented to spread as an different look to things.

 

[McPeachy]

Remember what Tom Burman said (after firing Joe Glenn & hiring Dickface):

"offense sells tickets"

 

[WestWYOPoke]

Draw your own conclusions if you want and feel free to add other variables but as of right now I would say that we are worse than we were last year. I hope it gets better because it damn sure isn't as fun to watch as an uptempo game. And for all of you old timers out there Defense doesn't win championships scoring points is what wins!

Seems to work alright for Alabama, their offense is never anything spectacular or flashy, but their defenses are ridiculously good.

you can't be serious....do you really think we can recruit the same level of athletes as Alabama? See her e is part of the problem most people have no idea about who we can recruit. There is no way you will ever get the same level of athleticism in Wyoming as you do in Alabama. The spread equalizes talent by position. You can get a few select athletes in space to make plays.

My post had nothing to do about Wyoming or our recruiting. You said that defense doesn't win championships and I told you that Alabama would probably disagree with that statement.

 

[Slow Hand]

I think the system's success boils down to one thing: success on 3rd down.

So far, the Pokes have converted just 38% of third downs, 82nd in the country. By comparison, last year at NDSU, his team converted 55% of third downs. Against Fresno State, Wyoming was 10-15.

When that improves, the Cowboys will win.

this is a stat I can agree with. See I am not here to argue exclusively, I am open to other variables as well.