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Glenn & Staff Would Have Competed!?

McPeachy

McPeachy

Well-known member
Looking at the MWC, and specifically back to the Glenn & Staff era, I can't help but really wonder if Wyoming would have been better off right now (or pre - Bohl) having kept Glenn and never hiring Dickface.

A couple interesting looks:

2003 4-8 Joe Glenn
2004 7-5 Joe Glenn Las Vegas Bowl champions
2005 4-7 Joe Glenn
2006 6-6 Joe Glenn
2007 5-7 Joe Glenn
2008 4-8 Joe Glenn - 2 close losses to end the season (UNLV / CSU)

2011 Utah no longer a MWC member
2011 BYU no longer a MWC member
2012 TCU no longer a MWC member

2009 7-6 Dave Christensen New Mexico Bowl champions
2010 3-9 Dave Christensen
2011 8-5 Dave Christensen Throttled in New Mexico Bowl (didn't play BYU or Utah) DF looks at Houston Job
2012 4-8 Dave Christensen (didn't play TCU - MWC very watered down now)
2013 5-7 Dave Christensen
 
The one thing DC had over Glenn was that he could at least get decent offensive players in here, and luck out on the occasional defensive player as well. But he could not develop ANY of his players. Glenn, at least on the defensive side, had a lot of hard nosed players. Just the ineptitude of the offense to do anything is what ultimately doomed him. "Thunder and Lightning" were good, but otherwise, yeah.
 
I posted this a while back, but here are the Sagarin averages (encompassing SOS) for our last few coaches:

DC: 106
JG: 82
Vic: 134

Bohl's first year: 115



It's hard to say how Glenn would have competed because his last team was 122nd in the Sagarin rankings. That was a pretty bad team that won some close games (21-20 over Ohio, 16-13 against NDSU, 13-7 against Tennessee), so the trajectory was not good. However, Glenn clearly had the best overall teams of any coach this century. Sad, but true.

I actually think if we would have invested a little more in that relationship it would have worked out. We blame Glenn's loyalty to Cockhill, but if he had a larger budget for assistants he might have been able to upgrade that spot sooner (by the time the switch occurred JG was a lame duck so he had almost no options, hence the Bob Cole experience). Glenn was a nice fit at UW in a number of ways, and was simply undone by poor offensive coaching and the inability to recruit on that side of the ball.

It could be worse, we could be UNLV. 2 wins in 8 of the last 11 years (seriously) and they are hiring a HS coach now.
 
fromolwyoming said:
The one thing DC had over Glenn was that he could at least get decent offensive players in here, and luck out on the occasional defensive player as well. But he could not develop ANY of his players. Glenn, at least on the defensive side, had a lot of hard nosed players. Just the ineptitude of the offense to do anything is what ultimately doomed him. "Thunder and Lightning" were good, but otherwise, yeah.
Click to expand...

As Nowhere mentioned above - I think the offense was obviously Glenn's Achilles. And it very easily could have come down to pay for assistants and support from the administration. Glenn was (obviously) a believer in defense first. But, think about the $$ tossed at Dickface...if that would have been given to Glenn, with an extension / premise of hiring an offensive mind, things would certainly be different.
 
McPeachy said:
fromolwyoming said:
The one thing DC had over Glenn was that he could at least get decent offensive players in here, and luck out on the occasional defensive player as well. But he could not develop ANY of his players. Glenn, at least on the defensive side, had a lot of hard nosed players. Just the ineptitude of the offense to do anything is what ultimately doomed him. "Thunder and Lightning" were good, but otherwise, yeah.
Click to expand...

As Nowhere mentioned above - I think the offense was obviously Glenn's Achilles. And it very easily could have come down to pay for assistants and support from the administration. Glenn was (obviously) a believer in defense first. But, think about the $$ tossed at Dickface...if that would have been given to Glenn, with an extension / premise of hiring an offensive mind, things would certainly be different.
Click to expand...
True, but it is a bit late for this sort of speculation. Sad, but true. Glenn was a great guy and very personable. But now we have Bohl, who built NDSU into a juggernaut. It wasn't with a flashy offense, but with a smash mouth offense and defense. He brings a similar style that Glenn did, but with a seemingly better resume. And so far his recruits are doing pretty well, with Hill stepping it up after Wick went down and blowing all our minds, and Ryan Cummings stepping in at LT as a true freshmen and doing a pretty good job, considering true freshmen rarely start as linemen anywhere.
 
In hindsight, this and the Schroyer hire should have been fatal for Burman. JG was a unique individual that fit WYO well.

I too wonder what would have happened with an AD with vision who threw money in for assistants and stuck with JG?

Instead, Burman went on a tangent about how downhill, hard-nosed football wouldn't work at WYO. How we needed a unique system because we can't get recruits, blah, blah, blah. He hires DC to minimize the effects of how hard it is to recruit to Wyoming. Now, here we are back to hard-nosed football.

Clear lack of vision, mission, and plan.
 
I purely enjoy the dynamic of "UW tolerates mediocrity but, my God, don't fire a coach who is mediocre."

Glenn had to go. He was overmatched. He was getting worse every year.

Though he was a truly nice and fun guy.
 
Ironically, his steepest decline came immediately after Burman was hired. :o

SnowyRange said:
I purely enjoy the dynamic of "UW tolerates mediocrity but, my God, don't fire a coach who is mediocre."
Click to expand...

And yet you are pro-Burman :rofl:
 
NowherePoke said:
I actually think if we would have invested a little more in that relationship it would have worked out. We blame Glenn's loyalty to Cockhill, but if he had a larger budget for assistants he might have been able to upgrade that spot sooner (by the time the switch occurred JG was a lame duck so he had almost no options, hence the Bob Cole experience). Glenn was a nice fit at UW in a number of ways, and was simply undone by poor offensive coaching and the inability to recruit on that side of the ball.
Click to expand...


Maybe. Not only Cockhill but also Dr. Wisniewski the receivers coach/recruiting coordinator (in title only), Knutsen, Germer, Casey with little coaching experience. Maybe Glenn would have hired a better staff with more money, maybe he would have stuck with who he knew no matter what.

As SnowyRange pointed out, he was being outclassed as a coach. I don't forget the monumental blowouts that occurred under his tenure, year after year. Great, nice guy. But he had to go.

Also, at South Dakota he has surrounded himself with sons of friends and former local legends. Not a bad philosophy to be loyal and give valuable experience to those close to you. USD is 7-28 in three years under Glenn. I'm pretty sure his time at Montana was a fluke.

Gotdamned great guy though, no sarcasm. Stutzreim would have ran through a wall and then eaten it for the man, mucho sarcasmo.
 
hithere said:
Gotdamned great guy though, no sarcasm. Stutzreim would have ran through a wall and then eaten it for the man, mucho sarcasmo.
Click to expand...

Sarcasm doesn't exist in that specific sentence though, right? I sure hope not. As he was a great guy - and Stutz would have run through a wall, etc., for Glenn & Company.

Oh, and Germer was solid...but you are spot on with the others. Especially Cockmaster and Knutson.
 
I think this what if scenario does have some interesting features:

1.) Joe Glenn didn't make much money at wyo. His salary was at $450k after incentives if I remember right.
2.) Asumming Glenn would have went for it, he could have kept his salary cap. The amount of money UW came up with for DC and his assistants would have went a long, long, long ways into bringing some high quality assistants into Laramie.

I don't know what the assitants make these days, but if you could get the head coach to take less and put more in the pool for the assistants - you may be able to keep them around. HC = $450k, OC/DC=$450k, position coaches in the 200k range. JG seemed like the kind of guy that may have went for this idea....

who knows .....
 
$450 K would be a lot for a coordinator at this level, and 200K, while not as far off, is still pretty generous for a position coach. That would certainly attract some quality candidates if we paid that much (except for only $450K for a head coach).
 
McPeachy said:
Sarcasm doesn't exist in that specific sentence though, right? I sure hope not. As he was a great guy - and Stutz would have run through a wall, etc., for Glenn & Company.

Oh, and Germer was solid...but you are spot on with the others. Especially Cockmaster and Knutson.
Click to expand...

I would have ran through a wall for Glenn! I loved him from 2003-November 17th 2007.

Just making a fat joke at Stutz's expense. He was portly.
 
The 2006 team was I think the best team we've had this century probably. They were a couple of early season heartbreaks from a potential 9-3, 10-2 type campaign blowing out Utah and CSU along the way.

I do think that while Glenn's defenses were better than what we have had since he left, people remember them a little too fondly than what they actually were. Glenn simply got blown out way too many times against MW teams, and his "good" defenses never stopped anyone really with a pulse. Even that pretty good 2006 team got absolutely crushed by BYU. Glenn presents some interesting what ifs, but then again the history of Wyoming athletics is filled with a bunch of what ifs.
 
McPeachy said:
Looking at the MWC, and specifically back to the Glenn & Staff era, I can't help but really wonder if Wyoming would have been better off right now (or pre - Bohl) having kept Glenn and never hiring Dickface.

A couple interesting looks:

2003 4-8 Joe Glenn
2004 7-5 Joe Glenn Las Vegas Bowl champions
2005 4-7 Joe Glenn
2006 6-6 Joe Glenn
2007 5-7 Joe Glenn
2008 4-8 Joe Glenn - 2 close losses to end the season (UNLV / CSU)

2011 Utah no longer a MWC member
2011 BYU no longer a MWC member
2012 TCU no longer a MWC member

2009 7-6 Dave Christensen New Mexico Bowl champions
2010 3-9 Dave Christensen
2011 8-5 Dave Christensen Throttled in New Mexico Bowl (didn't play BYU or Utah) DF looks at Houston Job
2012 4-8 Dave Christensen (didn't play TCU - MWC very watered down now)
2013 5-7 Dave Christensen
Click to expand...
Joe Glenn was the only coach in the MWC to have beaten every other team at least once.
 
DC and Brett Smith would have competed.
Montana? Check.
AFA? Check.
FAU? Check.
Oregon? Nope.
Michigan State? Nope.
NM? Check.
SJSU? Check.
Hawaii? Check.
Fresno? Check.
CSU? Nope.
Boise? Nope.
Utah State? Nope.

DC would have gone 7-5.
 
BeaverPoke said:
DC and Brett Smith would have competed.
Montana? Check.
AFA? Check.
FAU? Check.
Oregon? Nope.
Michigan State? Nope.
NM? Check.
SJSU? Check.
Hawaii? Check.
Fresno? Check.
CSU? Nope.
Boise? Nope.
Utah State? Nope.

DC would have gone 7-5.
Click to expand...
Bohl + Brett Smith would have gone 8-4. .
 
calpoke25 said:
The 2006 team was I think the best team we've had this century probably. They were a couple of early season heartbreaks from a potential 9-3, 10-2 type campaign blowing out Utah and CSU along the way.

I do think that while Glenn's defenses were better than what we have had since he left, people remember them a little too fondly than what they actually were. Glenn simply got blown out way too many times against MW teams, and his "good" defenses never stopped anyone really with a pulse. Even that pretty good 2006 team got absolutely crushed by BYU. Glenn presents some interesting what ifs, but then again the history of Wyoming athletics is filled with a bunch of what ifs.
Click to expand...

The fact that we are even considering 2006 the best team shows what a sad state our football program is in. When Karsten Sween QB'ed your "best team of the century" :wtf:
 
Honestly, our D was so bad that I don't think any or at least very few games would be gimmies regardless of coach and/or QB.
 
djm19 said:
calpoke25 said:
The 2006 team was I think the best team we've had this century probably. They were a couple of early season heartbreaks from a potential 9-3, 10-2 type campaign blowing out Utah and CSU along the way.

I do think that while Glenn's defenses were better than what we have had since he left, people remember them a little too fondly than what they actually were. Glenn simply got blown out way too many times against MW teams, and his "good" defenses never stopped anyone really with a pulse. Even that pretty good 2006 team got absolutely crushed by BYU. Glenn presents some interesting what ifs, but then again the history of Wyoming athletics is filled with a bunch of what ifs.
Click to expand...

The fact that we are even considering 2006 the best team shows what a sad state our football program is in. When Karsten Sween QB'ed your "best team of the century" :wtf:
Click to expand...
I'm not sure of the year, but IMO our best team was when Corey Bramlett was QB (could have been 2006A). The game against TCU where we turned the ball over 7 times was the turning point in the Joe Glenn era. Win that game and the Pokes had some traction. We lost a close one despite of al the turnovers. However, the turnovers just kept coming after that. The offense was never able to recover and progressively got worse. The defense did as well.
 
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