False Starts

[Asmodeanreborn]

I think it's safe to say that False Starts once again killed our offense big time. How many times did we have 3 and 1 and 3 and 2 ending with false starts?
Wow.

I thought I'd be happy after this game, but I'm actually very disappointed in how easily they got our o-line to make huge mistakes.

The sad thing is that the rest of the conference is going to see the score now, and it'll look a lot less close than it actually was.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

The O-line play is simply not acceptable. I would have to watch the game again, but it seems like Kirven (and i hate singling out someone) jumped quite a bit.

 

[WyomingAg]

O-line is pathetic. False starts on every critical play of the last two games. If the other team rushes more then 4, someone almost always goes through untouched.

 

[Asmodeanreborn]

O-line is pathetic. False starts on every critical play of the last two games. If the other team rushes more then 4, someone almost always goes through untouched.

Agreed.
One positive thing... once ACS matures a bit, he'll be able to spot the blitzes well enough to run for sizable gains a lot of the time. A couple of quick, sure-handed receivers added would also mean that the other times he'll just put it in their hands underneath, and blitzing will almost never work against us.

 

[McPeachy]

O-line is pathetic. False starts on every critical play of the last two games. If the other team rushes more then 4, someone almost always goes through untouched.

Yep...I agree. I also want to add though, having paid particular attention to the WR's (I was at RES), after their route is "done" most of them do little to create some kind of separation to get open. ACS scrambling for his life all night, and many times, the WR's are just standing up field watching.

Call it good coverage...if you want. I call it shitty recievers with stone fingers.

 

[cheypoke]

I agree Peachy, our receivers HAVE to start getting some separation when ACS scrambles. They just look like they have no idea what to do. This has been a problem for a few years actually.

The o-line and the penalties is just killing us! I understand and expect those penalties early in the season with new QB and a new system. But they should be settled into things by now. May have to start shaking things up a bit in there.

 

[Asmodeanreborn]

I agree Peachy, our receivers HAVE to start getting some separation when ACS scrambles. They just look like they have no idea what to do. This has been a problem for a few years actually.

The o-line and the penalties is just killing us! I understand and expect those penalties early in the season with new QB and a new system. But they should be settled into things by now. May have to start shaking things up a bit in there.

That was the nice thing about players like Bouknight - he may not have been the fastest guy around, but he kept moving his legs and got open. Sometimes that led to huge plays and touchdowns.
Others, like Malcom Floyd, didn't really need to get separation because their 6'5 frame caused mismatches with 5'9 corners, and you could still throw it his way to get completions as long as you put it up tall enough that only he could catch it - the way Philip Rivers does now.

 

[LawPoke]

O line recruiting does not seem to be a priority - given the nature of our commits thus far. Does anyone know the conventional wisdom behind this part of the recruiting scheme? Do we have a stockpile that they think they can develop? Do they think that the current guys will get better with time? Are there some on the horizon that they are working to get?

 

[Asmodeanreborn]

O line recruiting does not seem to be a priority - given the nature of our commits thus far. Does anyone know the conventional wisdom behind this part of the recruiting scheme? Do we have a stockpile that they think they can develop? Do they think that the current guys will get better with time? Are there some on the horizon that they are working to get?

I have a feeling that they're looking at a few guys. That California trip was probably not ONLY aimed at skill positions, right?

 

[McPeachy]

O line recruiting does not seem to be a priority - given the nature of our commits thus far. Does anyone know the conventional wisdom behind this part of the recruiting scheme? Do we have a stockpile that they think they can develop? Do they think that the current guys will get better with time? Are there some on the horizon that they are working to get?

Just looking at the roster, there are 16 O-Linemen. Of those 16, only 3 are seniors (Arnold, Kennedy, and Otterson). That leaves us 13 after graduation. Chances are we will have two defect...leaving us 11 for spring ball. My prediction? The pokes will sign 2 or 3 this class...and have probably already narrowed it down to the 2 or 3 they want.

O Line coaching, and S&C, has a lot to do with it as well. Germer was horrible. Kaligas & Harding (yes we have 2 coaches for the O Line), especially Kaligas, are major upgrades. As is Trent Greener in the weight room.

I guess, my thought is that you can coach and teach somebody to be a great lineman. But when it comes to skill players (WR's for instance) they either have it or they don't.

 

[Bryoming]

I guess, my thought is that you can coach and teach somebody to be a great lineman. But when it comes to skill players (WR's for instance) they either have it or they don't.

As a former lineman myself I have to disagree with you. Just being big is never going to be enough to play line. Like any other position, a certain skill set is needed or you will be terrible at the position. Quickness and intelligence are two things that you need to be naturally gifted with to be an o-lineman.

Skill position players (other than QB) are told exactly what they need to do every play. No matter how a corner plays a wideout his route never changes. You have a blueprint for each play on the line, but a blitz or a stunt throws it right out the window.

I believe our line problem right now is that we were recruiting big dudes who played football, not linemen. As soon as we get some guys in that know how to play the position we will be fine. Until then we have to make due with some glorified road blocks. I think a few of our current line have proven that all they are capable of is getting in the way, not blocking.

 

[LawPoke]

Very good insights 1016. Do you know how our current array of linemen/potential recruits rate in terms of your analysis? I think you are right - between a stationary brick wall and a nimble, smarter, disciplined but smaller guy...I'll take the latter.

 

[Asmodeanreborn]

Very good insights 1016. Do you know how our current array of linemen/potential recruits rate in terms of your analysis? I think you are right - between a stationary brick wall and a nimble, smarter, disciplined but smaller guy...I'll take the latter.

Especially when you have a QB that does pretty well scrambling. You NEED linemen who are quick and can adjust then.

 

[McPeachy]

As a former lineman myself I have to disagree with you. Just being big is never going to be enough to play line.

You bet, you can't be "just" big...there has to be some athletic ability (unless your bWHYu and the fat & slow guys just seem to fit). But skill positions, are called that for a reason. They take more skill...more speed...more quickness...more athletic ability in general. You can't recruit a WR that runs a 5.5 and expect to get him to a 4.4. It doesn't happen. You can, on the other hand, recruit some bigs, with some athletic ability, and teach them technique to be a good lineman.

 

[Bryoming]

Very good insights 1016. Do you know how our current array of linemen/potential recruits rate in terms of your analysis? I think you are right - between a stationary brick wall and a nimble, smarter, disciplined but smaller guy...I'll take the latter.

From what I've seen this season, our right tackle should be playing in the interior. His technique is good, but he isn't quick enough to play tackle. Our left guard is just bad. He didn't look as bad during the Utah game (was that the position Sterner was playing before he got benched?), but the right tackle isn't cutting it. I haven't seen film on any of the recruits yet, but I'm sure the coaches are addressing the situation.

As far as I can tell we have the personnel to have success on the line, they just need to be coached for the scheme. I can tell you right now that most of the general problems we are having are coming from the wide splits that our new scheme is employing. Those splits give the players a lot more space to cover in their assignments, and it's tough to get used to that after playing with conventional splits throughout your entire career.

 

[LawPoke]

So, 1016, surely the coaching staff sees these same things, right? Are you seeing the same problems today that were there in Game 1? Game 2? If so, that concerns me a bit.

In terms of "splits" - as you watch Mizzou, Oklahoma, KU, Texas Tech - they alway talk about the wide splits as though they put the defense in a predicament. Why? There has to be a strategic reason for them, right?

As you can tell, I've never played a down of football, but am very interested in what the hell this all means for my beloved Pokes and when things will start to gel. Is this a one year odyssey? Two? Three? Will my grandkids be the benefactor of my pain today? I assume, as always, the answer is "it depends" - personnel, technique, time with the system, etc. - I just don't like that answer.

 

[Bryoming]

The coaching staff is definitely seeing these things, Lawpoke. The wide splits are an advantage in the spread offense, but the linemen have to get used to a different way of doing things. For example, with "standard" 6"-12" splits, the interior linemen form a brick wall up the middle. Defensive tackles and blitzing linebackers hit the center and guards and are pushed outside to the tackles. The tackles then make sure that no one gets around them, flowing around and behind the quarterback, thus forming the pocket. This is a good scheme to employ for balanced or power running teams, as the line is easily able to double team and push back the defensive front.

With wide splits, the gaps that the defensive linemen and linebackers try to attack and get through are bigger. Instead of the tackles making sure no one gets around them, they must now make sure that the defense isn't able to get around the corner. If the tackle is facing the sidelines, then he has failed him assignment and the defense has forced the QB to step up into the pocket instead of allowing him to scramble. The guards and center must react much more quickly to cover their assignments. Instead of being able to double team, they must look to take on the defensive front one-on-one. In the event that a double team is needed, a large hole is left where the double teaming lineman came from, allowing a blitzer a good chance to come through untouched. The pocket doesn't form up as nicely in this scheme, as the idea of the scheme is to keep the defensive front more in a straight line. The scheme is great for spread and spread option offenses, as it gives the QB and RBs more room to move east and west. The advantages come from your mobile backfield. The QB scrambling stretches the defense, opening passing lanes for the receivers to exploit.

 

[Asmodeanreborn]

The coaching staff is definitely seeing these things, Lawpoke. The wide splits are an advantage in the spread offense, but the linemen have to get used to a different way of doing things. For example, with "standard" 6"-12" splits, the interior linemen form a brick wall up the middle. Defensive tackles and blitzing linebackers hit the center and guards and are pushed outside to the tackles. The tackles then make sure that no one gets around them, flowing around and behind the quarterback, thus forming the pocket. This is a good scheme to employ for balanced or power running teams, as the line is easily able to double team and push back the defensive front.

With wide splits, the gaps that the defensive linemen and linebackers try to attack and get through are bigger. Instead of the tackles making sure no one gets around them, they must now make sure that the defense isn't able to get around the corner. If the tackle is facing the sidelines, then he has failed him assignment and the defense has forced the QB to step up into the pocket instead of allowing him to scramble. The guards and center must react much more quickly to cover their assignments. Instead of being able to double team, they must look to take on the defensive front one-on-one. In the event that a double team is needed, a large hole is left where the double teaming lineman came from, allowing a blitzer a good chance to come through untouched. The pocket doesn't form up as nicely in this scheme, as the idea of the scheme is to keep the defensive front more in a straight line. The scheme is great for spread and spread option offenses, as it gives the QB and RBs more room to move east and west. The advantages come from your mobile backfield. The QB scrambling stretches the defense, opening passing lanes for the receivers to exploit.

This is one of the best explanations I've heard. I really appreciate it. I don't know much at all about how the o-line works, but this completely makes sense, and almost seems too simple

 

[Bryoming]

Thank you Everything looks easy on paper, it's the execution that's the bitch.

I also realized I forgot to answer the last part of LawPoke's post. I believe we have the personnel to run the new scheme. The line coaches just need to keep doing what they are doing and it will come around. I know that everyone hates this answer, but it takes time to get used to the new scheme. We are doing very well transitioning right now, and we will only be better after a year in the system. I think that we will see most of the line problems resolved by next season, but all we can do is sit back and watch. opcorn: