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Embarrassment on ESPN

ok I want NDSU to goto MWC or MAC asap.
however, I get destroyed by NDSU fans who point at your Friday Night game, or MAC wed/thurs games for 10,000 people or less attendance in person.

Do you think these problems will ever change in the MWC or MAC?

Is it a problem of (if you are not 10-0 you cant go anywhere anyways so why goto the games?)
 
lakesbison said:
ok I want NDSU to goto MWC or MAC asap.
however, I get destroyed by NDSU fans who point at your Friday Night game, or MAC wed/thurs games for 10,000 people or less attendance in person.

Do you think these problems will ever change in the MWC or MAC?

Is it a problem of (if you are not 10-0 you cant go anywhere anyways so why goto the games?)
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Holy shit. Drinking your own pee pee again? Destroyed? LMFAO!

NDSU needs to stay FCS, it fits best. Just like Montana & Montana State. Your fans would drop like flies after a few 6 loss seasons in the MAC. And then, it would be too late to drop back down to salvage a fan base. You and your fans are used to the great competitive tilts against South Dakota Something, Weber State, Western Illinois, and Northern Iowa. Just stay.
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
Rick is but a mere example of the underlying issues with our athletic program. Issues where administration and fans have bought into this nonsense that it is okay to lose because it is harder at WYO. Burman himself has used the old recruiting disadvantage as an excuse.

Bottom line, one idea is to have an external review of our athletic department from top to bottom to identify problems in leadership, implementation of strategic plans, etc. What is wrong with that?

8 years ago CSU was down and out. 3 and 4 win seasons with a budget less than ours. 8 years later, they are a T25 team eyeing the Access bid and surpassed us in budget. Meanwhile, during that time we haven't progressed at all and Burman almost destroyed our bball program.

But, hey, everything is harder at WYO, so we should just be happy that they field a team, right?
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I would encourage you to ask every employee paid by the university who is in the athletic department if they are "just happy to field a team" ...

Stop it.
 
alyssa said:
I'm waiting to see if this thread gets locked.
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Were only about 70% to the limit of being locked. This could go on for a while. We've had way worse on here. This whole thread gives me the giggles.
 
VisorHair said:
I would encourage you to ask every employee paid by the university who is in the athletic department if they are "just happy to field a team" ...

Stop it.
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VisorHair said:
I'll eat crow.

Our defense is dogshit.
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http://www.wyonation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11570&p=127298#p127298" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is okay to criticize the young men busting their butts each day but the bureaucrats are hands off?

Bottom line, in 8 years, top programs leave and we still don't gain ground in MWC. We still have an empty trophy case and our peers are passing us by.
Here are revenues in that 8 years (pretty much the same as expenses but notice the changes for the schools in our Mtn Division)....

Wyoming $24 million to $29 million = + $5 million
NM $36 million to $44 million = + $8 million
CSU $23 million to $34 million = + $11 million
USU $13 million to $23 million = + $10 million
BSU $25 million to $43 million = + $18 million
AF $30 million to $39 million = +9 million

I'm sorry, and I'm assuming you either work in or know someone in the AD, but this screams time for an external review. What do you have against transparency and why can't administrators be criticized? With trends like this, WYO will not ever have sustained success. It isn't just some coaching hire that builds a program.
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
VisorHair said:
I would encourage you to ask every employee paid by the university who is in the athletic department if they are "just happy to field a team" ...

Stop it.
Click to expand...

VisorHair said:
I'll eat crow.

Our defense is dogshit.
Click to expand...
http://www.wyonation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11570&p=127298#p127298" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is okay to criticize the young men busting their butts each day but the bureaucrats are hands off?

Bottom line, in 8 years, top programs leave and we still don't gain ground in MWC. We still have an empty trophy case and our peers are passing us by.
Here are revenues in that 8 years (pretty much the same as expenses but notice the changes for the schools in our Mtn Division)....

Wyoming $24 million to $29 million = + $5 million
NM $36 million to $44 million = + $8 million
CSU $23 million to $34 million = + $11 million
USU $13 million to $23 million = + $10 million
BSU $25 million to $43 million = + $18 million
AF $30 million to $39 million = +9 million

I'm sorry, and I'm assuming you either work in or know someone in the AD, but this screams time for an external review. What do you have against transparency and why can't administrators be criticized? With trends like this, WYO will not ever have sustained success. It isn't just some coaching hire that builds a program.
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Ragtime, total revenues can be misleading as well and is not necessarily an indictment on an individual or department. The Sheep had a bump in revenue in large part to drastically increasing student fees. Also, where does state funding play in to this revenue? I would argue that for Wyoming to be comparable they would need a larger budget because the cost of business is greater with travel etc.

Last time the department changed something drastically to increase revenue there was a huge backlash and people complained... Don't you remember eliminating grandfathering in the AA?
 
Exactly what pokefan1980 said..

The variables that play into revenue are endless. AF went up bc they now have to pay for travel differently, they lost the government funding so the monies were re-routed. I know UNLV's is extremely high but they are broke. Capital campaign money falls under revenue and almost all the schools you listed raised a lot of money for new facilities. Boise is on another level with ESPN & BCS money.
 
Burman himself has been quoted indicating we are in the bottom end of the MWC and this is after the 3 biggest budget teams left. In other words our position hasn't changed at all. Realistically, how much worse could the past 8 years have been?

Bottom line is this, our problems have not been 100% coaching. We need a thorough and independent review of our entire AD. I'm not sure why you think it is absurd or would be so opposed. If our AD is all roses as you suggest, then there should be nothing to hide.

As CFB world is changing, we need to evaluate where we are, where we can be, and what it would take. SJSU did a budget analysis and were slammed for what they were trying to do to support athletics. If we would have to take such avenues, then I would agree with avoiding those.

I ask again, what do you have against transparency and why is it okay to criticize athletes (as you did in the post I quoted) but not administrators?
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
Burman himself has been quoted indicating we are in the bottom end of the MWC and this is after the 3 biggest budget teams left. In other words our position hasn't changed at all. Realistically, how much worse could the past 8 years have been?

Bottom line is this, our problems have not been 100% coaching. We need a thorough and independent review of our entire AD. I'm not sure why you think it is absurd or would be so opposed. If our AD is all roses as you suggest, then there should be nothing to hide.

As CFB world is changing, we need to evaluate where we are, where we can be, and what it would take. SJSU did a budget analysis and were slammed for what they were trying to do to support athletics. If we would have to take such avenues, then I would agree with avoiding those.

I ask again, what do you have against transparency and why is it okay to criticize athletes (as you did in the post I quoted) but not administrators?
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Because I know our defense as a unit tends to suck. I also understand the difficulties related to budgetary issues within college athletics and know it's not a personnel issue.
 
VisorHair said:
I googled him - the VP of General Counsel?

Either way, Tom has no reason to care what he says. Rick can worry about student conduct or whatever he does.
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From your posts, I'm assuming you're very close to the Athletics Department. It's interesting to me the attitude that seems to be pervasive that the AD's office shouldn't care about what the University's General Counsel says.

I'm not a big fan of Tom Burman and I'm probably reaching here because my objectivity is admittedly very clouded but is Athletics in that much of a vacuum that the General Counsel's office that deals with most legal matters on campus, in particular athletics compliance, should be treated as a non-entity? The office headed by the man who used to serve as UW's Vice President of Government, Community and Legal Affairs seems like a good of a resource as any to get tips from on how to get money out of the legislature. Because, you know, having anything to do with athletics administration at UW is so gosh darn hard.

Is the whole athletics department this ignorant, or just you? Because this is a message board after all and I like to run my mouth off here sometimes too. Or does Rick Miller just have a nice title and serves as little more than a figurehead? It's more than likely I'm ignorant about his role as well. Anyone besides VisorHair know?

But somehow it wouldn't surprise me if the AD's office does indeed have this somewhat cavalier attitude and continues to preach hard work while continuing to fail... because they/you know best on how to continue to not win?
 
I don't know if you can completely blame budgets for our lack of success.

"But Kansas, we see teams with greater budgets succeed."

- True, we do. And for every Alabama and Florida St., there is an Ohio or Southern Alabama, or Western Kentucky who tend to constantly do well.

"But Kansas, if we increase our budget we can have better recruiting, hence better success on the field."

- Again, could be true, but money doesn't always matter. Hence Kansas, Iowa St., Washington St. Your overall bottom dwellers, who struggle to succeed. Money may bring in recruits, but on our current budget, we've proven to bring in some pretty great recruits.
Yarbrough, Smith, Wick, Moore, Wendling, Gipson.
The point is Money does not buy success on the field. Money cannot make certain catches, runs, passes, blocks or tackles. That is sheer determination. And I think our budget has finally brought in a coach who is going to pull that out of these players. That is the difference.
 
Our AD has two plans: 1) hopefully hire the right coach and 2) hopefully get more money from the State.

Burman himself acknowledged we are falling behind our peers:

“It makes sense that we’re not keeping up with our counterparts as far as spending," Burman said. "When you take a million dollars out of your budget, you’re going backwards.
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If the plan to get money from the State fails?

"This market won’t sustain, by itself, a Division I athletics program without the state of Wyoming and the Legislature.”
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One Independent Committee (of Sports Professionals) already made several observations. Two of which are:
"It is not a secret that UW has real challenges that influence competitiveness in athletics. However, there appears to be an attitude that UW Athletics has simply accepted this as the reality of today’s world instead of focusing on improvement."
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And..
Another of the consultants' recommendations proposed that the athletics program re-brand itself, changing the way it presents itself to recruits and fans nationally, notably via uniforms and advertising campaigns.
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You can say what you want, but I think our AD needs critical evaluation. When you've gone through as many coaches as we have, you have to start to wonder if bad coaching is a symptom of other underlying illnesses. More importantly, are there treatments for those illnesses.

http://trib.com/sports/college/wyoming/university-of-wyoming-athletics-director-resents-mediocrity-claim/article_8720c9b9-edee-5d98-9a4b-bedd010626d2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
One of my favorite all-time quotes that I wish we would steal...

“Our mantra is ‘Entitled to Nothing"; We never talk about what we don’t have, but rather live by the maxim ‘Win Anyway,”--Bob Walsh
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The article the quote came from http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer/2014/03/18/how-college-athletics-teaches-us-to-win-with-less/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not a bad read and perhaps some things we could learn or experiment with.
 
One of my favorite all-time quotes that I wish we would steal...

“Our mantra is ‘Entitled to Nothing"; We never talk about what we don’t have, but rather live by the maxim ‘Win Anyway,”--Bob Walsh


The article the quote came from http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... with-less/

Not a bad read and perhaps some things we could learn or experiment with.
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Good quote, good attitude.

And it might be possible to do what Rhode Island College and VCU have done, if we did the biggest thing they did: eliminate football.

But I doubt that would go down very well.
 
SnowyRange said:
Good quote, good attitude.

And it might be possible to do what Rhode Island College and VCU have done, if we did the biggest thing they did: eliminate football.

But I doubt that would go down very well.
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Or we take some of their other practices and try to see if those work first. I know your comment is tic, but you've hit on something a lot of G5 teams will be evaluating in the near future. I don't think we will have to, or at least hope not.

If Burman's prophecy is correct, we don't get another plan, and the State doesn't pony up, then according to Burman we will be facing that very question.
 
Or we take some of their other practices and try to see if those work first. I know your comment is tic, but you've hit on something a lot of G5 teams will be evaluating in the near future. I don't think we will have to, or at least hope not.

If Burman's prophecy is correct, we don't get another plan, and the State doesn't pony up, then according to Burman we will be facing that very question.
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A bit tongue-in-cheek, but more like a thought experiment.

And I was just reacting to the article, which did have some good psychological observations, but which observations might not really deal with the real world elephant in the room: football. That's why the article had to choose as its two shining examples schools which have gone all-in on Olympic sports, and are able to do so because they don't have football.

What do I think about football generally? I think you're right. As more and more schools confront that elephant, there will gradually be more discussions about dropping football. (No, I am NOT advocating for UW.)
 
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