Brent Vigen

[McPeachy]

Again, Vigen isn't the playcaller or offensive gameplanner at MSU.

Taylor Housewright calling the plays? A former WYO Offense GA under Vigen...

So, basically Vigen is really calling the plays, or has a plan given to Taylor to follow.

This is a fairly interesting article from earlier in the year detailing the dynamic. Housewright's offenses actually apparently pull a lot more from his time under Moorehead at Mississippi State and then Oregon than anything. The article actually refers to his particular brand of RPO as "Moorehead-inspired", although he tends to tailor it to the personnel he has to work with.

Also note this quote: "Vigen “intervenes when he needs to,” Housewright said, but has empowered his OC during their MSU tenures. Housewright is often struck by how much Vigen listens to a guy who just started his coordinating career."

https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky-conference/montana-state-university/after-uneven-debut-montana-state-oc-taylor-housewright-is-equipped-for-strong-season/article_35d3ffa2-2978-11ed-80d4-7b05922ac6af.html

Again, let's not be revisionist. Vigen was part of the problem here, and he was handed the keys to an MSU program already in decent shape....and to his credit, has surrounded himself with staff that have different backgrounds than he and Bohl and lets them do their thing (within certain general boundaries).

So while Vigen has shown himself to be more flexible and willing to change and be challenged than Bohl, let's not credit him with suddenly being an offensive guru himself.

:thumb:

 

[Cornpoke]

There is a reason Wake Forest is having so much success and it's not because they are overpowering opponents. They have an excellent coaching staff, out scheme their opponents and adjust as needed. A team like Wake Forest should be the doormat of the ACC but they have figured out a way to win.

 

[laxwyo]

I bet Bohl would like my uncles Snake T offense from idaho. I heard it's a combination of Veer and Wing T. Something like 11 state championships now and every school he's coached has won a state championship. Would wyoming fans be ok with not throwing ball if it meant being like Air Force. More success but few NFL players. Personally I don't know if i could handle any kind of option offense which I imagine Wing T and Veer.


Well, Maybe i would be ok. I'm almost ready to be an O coordinator after this video

https://youtu.be/eYQjyGKyyqg

 

[OrediggerPoke]

I bet Bohl would like my uncles Snake T offense from idaho. I heard it's a combination of Veer and Wing T. Something like 11 state championships now and every school he's coached has won a state championship. Would wyoming fans be ok with not throwing ball if it meant being like Air Force. More success but few NFL players. Personally I don't know if i could handle any kind of option offense which I imagine Wing T and Veer.


Well, Maybe i would be ok. I'm almost ready to be an O coordinator after this video

https://youtu.be/eYQjyGKyyqg

I personally think that some type of similar offense is a really good idea in the current college environment of NIL and transfer portal. Successful MWC teams are going to be teams with continuity and teams that bring something unique for the opponent to prepare for. Run a triple option offense and you’re unlikely to have P5 schools recruiting your players for transfer.

 

[ELKMT]

it does makes sense to look at some form of the option. I do think a good defense matched with a spread option or pistol offense makes sense too. It is probably the easiest way to put points up and it can be ran complimentary to a defense. I think of Utah’s offense post Alex Smith. There seems to be high school QBs that can come in an run it right off the bat as well, so that could help with the poaching from other conferences. ACS to Smith could be the blue print for those type of changes.

 

[laxwyo]

it does makes sense to look at some form of the option. I do think a good defense matched with a spread option or pistol offense makes sense too. It is probably the easiest way to put points up and it can be ran complimentary to a defense. I think of Utah’s offense post Alex Smith. There seems to be high school QBs that can come in an run it right off the bat as well, so that could help with the poaching from other conferences. ACS to Smith could be the blue print for those type of changes.

I've run into lots of variations of wing T online where they combine Wing T and Spread offense type stuff with RPO Read option game. From what i've learned, Wing T isn't an option offense but it makes sense to run an offense that has 5 different plays from same exact formation. I think where the ball goes is pre-determined. There is something to having fewer plays that you run really well (aka Air Force) and then mixing in other stuff. Basically, it seems like you either have superior talent or you need to run something different on offense. Air Raid was that for a while until everyone started doing it. It's not like if Saban rolled into laramie and installed his system we'd become champions. When you have superior talent, you can run what he runs. Long story, we need to run an innovative offense. We can't just hire someone that ran what other people are running well and expect them to successful coming here. I think that was Dickface's problem. He knew the spread well, but knowing something well doesn't mean it'll work at wyoming. I'm sure bohl knows the offense he's running pretty damn good as well.

 

[ELKMT]

LAX, I agree. Tiller and Roach were innovative and in all reality so was Dimel. Dickfaces offense was actually better when he was more flexible and willing to play complimentary football. What I mean by that is he slowed his offense at times in his early years. His last year I believe his offense was the fastest snap offense in the country but when they didn’t make first downs this killed the defense which was talented but poorly coordinated. It is almost the reverse from what we are seeing with Bohl and Glenn.

 

[Itsux2beaewe]

Again, Vigen isn't the playcaller or offensive gameplanner at MSU.

Does that mean the play caller at Wyoming isn’t running Bohls offensive scheme?

 

[doreno5]

I bet Bohl would like my uncles Snake T offense from idaho. I heard it's a combination of Veer and Wing T. Something like 11 state championships now and every school he's coached has won a state championship. Would wyoming fans be ok with not throwing ball if it meant being like Air Force. More success but few NFL players. Personally I don't know if i could handle any kind of option offense which I imagine Wing T and Veer.


Well, Maybe i would be ok. I'm almost ready to be an O coordinator after this video

https://youtu.be/eYQjyGKyyqg

I personally think that some type of similar offense is a really good idea in the current college environment of NIL and transfer portal. Successful MWC teams are going to be teams with continuity and teams that bring something unique for the opponent to prepare for. Run a triple option offense and you’re unlikely to have P5 schools recruiting your players for transfer.

My high school - Cheyenne St. Mary's- was running that offense or something very similar in the early 70s. 10- 0 and State champs in 1972.

 

[LanderPoke]

Reminds me of Laramie High's straight T a little bit. Belly 32!!!

Anyway, the above seems 10000x more complicated, sophisticated and harder to defend than Bohl's offense. But Bohl would say that I am a Little League coach.

 

[DamThatRiver22]

Does that mean the play caller at Wyoming isn’t running Bohls offensive scheme?

Housewright runs a pretty variable read option scheme, as opposed to Bohl's standard run-first Pro-style scheme.

Now, Vigen ran a lot more of a hybrid RPO scheme with JA17 in 2016 (basically ran Bohl's preferred pro-style offense but with a TON of RPO concepts), but got away from that a little bit in 2017 and then we abandoned it almost completely.

Polasek seems to be trying to incorporate it (some RPO concepts) again a little bit this year, which is...unsurprisingly...when we've seen Peasley have the most success. But our base offense is still the same pro-style offense that has been a miserable failure here since 2017 (outside of JA17 doing JA17 things).

In general...other than Wyoming, the only D1 teams that really run a strict pro-style scheme are a handful of FCS teams and a couple of Big 10 teams. One of whose coaches is on the hot seat for having one of the worst offenses in the country (Ferentz at Iowa, who only still has his job because he's still fielding one of the nation's top defenses and has a long, successful history at Iowa) and another who just got fired (Chryst at Wisconsin). Lol.

 

[Itsux2beaewe]

Does that mean the play caller at Wyoming isn’t running Bohls offensive scheme?

Moorehead runs a pretty variable read option scheme, as opposed to Bohl's standard run-first Pro-style scheme.

Now, Vigen ran a lot more of a hybrid RPO scheme with JA17 in 2016 (basically ran Bohl's preferred pro-style offense but with a TON of RPO concepts), but got away from that a little bit in 2017 and then we abandoned it almost completely.

Polasek seems to be trying to incorporate it (some RPO concepts) again a little bit this year, which is...unsurprisingly...when we've seen Peasley have the most success. But our base offense is still the same pro-style offense that has been a miserable failure here since 2017 (outside of JA17 doing JA17 things).

In general...other than Wyoming, the only D1 teams that really run a strict pro-style scheme are a handful of FCS teams and a couple of Big 10 teams. One of whose coaches is on the hot seat for having one of the worst offenses in the country (Ferentz at Iowa, who only still has his job because he's still fielding one of the nation's top defenses and has a long, successful history at Iowa) and another who just got fired (Chryst at Wisconsin). Lol.

So that’s my question, is this Bohl’s offensive scheme? I don’t believe for a second that Vigen or Polasik have been given free reign to run their offense. I think that proves out when you look at the offense Vigen is running at Mt St. This is the same miserable failure of an offense we’ve seen at UW since Bohl came. When everyone was blaming Vigen, I always said he’s running the offense Bohl insists on.

 

[DamThatRiver22]

So that’s my question, is this Bohl’s offensive scheme? I don’t believe for a second that Vigen or Polasik have been given free reign to run their offense. I think that proves out when you look at the offense Vigen is running at Mt St. This is the same miserable failure of an offense we’ve seen at UW since Bohl came. When everyone was blaming Vigen, I always said he’s running the offense Bohl insists on.

As I've mentioned before, it's not that simple and they both share blame.

You can't give Vigen credit for Housewright running an offense he learned from Moorehead at Mississippi State and Oregon, on a Montana State team that was already in a good spot talent- and recruiting-wise before Vigen even got there. You can, however, give him credit for hiring Housewright and giving him leeway.

You can't blame Bohl for Vigen's bad playcalling and inability to adjust either in-game or to adjust the offense as a whole, especially when both parties have repeatedly stated Vigen had almost total leeway in that regard. (Keep in mind much of the criticism of Vigen was over playcalling, not necessarily just overall scheme.) You can, however, blame Bohl for bad overall game management, surrounding himself with yes men, pushing his preferred overall philosophy, and for bad staff hires and player development in general.

Also keep in mind there are other factors involved too, like our absolute ineptitude when it comes to developing WR talent. This is where Mike Grant's continued rise in the program is absolutely baffling.

Would I prefer Vigen over Bohl as HC here if those were the only two options available? Maybe; probably. Vigen shows a flexibility and a willingness to hire staff around him that do things differently and let them do their thing. However, Bohl has a defensive mind, prowess, and philosophy that we don't really know Vigen possesses. And overall, I think there are better options out there than either of them.

 

[laxwyo]

Reminds me of Laramie High's straight T a little bit. Belly 32!!!

Anyway, the above seems 10000x more complicated, sophisticated and harder to defend than Bohl's offense. But Bohl would say that I am a Little League coach.

I think Wing offenses are considered "high school" offenses but that doesn't mean a variation of this couldn't be good. I think they call the spread version, Wing T out of the shotgun, "Gun T" or something like that. There's no reason you couldn't be a pass first Wing/Spread offense. We see how difficult it is to remain assignment sound just by how successful Air Force has been. I think everyone has to be perfect on D or you get gashed. there's no reason you couldn't mix in RPO or Read Option into a Pass heavy wing T.

 

[Itsux2beaewe]

So that’s my question, is this Bohl’s offensive scheme? I don’t believe for a second that Vigen or Polasik have been given free reign to run their offense. I think that proves out when you look at the offense Vigen is running at Mt St. This is the same miserable failure of an offense we’ve seen at UW since Bohl came. When everyone was blaming Vigen, I always said he’s running the offense Bohl insists on.

As I've mentioned before, it's not that simple and they both share blame.

You can't give Vigen credit for Housewright running an offense he learned from Moorehead at Mississippi State and Oregon, on a Montana State team that was already in a good spot talent- and recruiting-wise before Vigen even got there. You can, however, give him credit for hiring Housewright and giving him leeway.

You can't blame Bohl for Vigen's bad playcalling and inability to adjust either in-game or to adjust the offense as a whole, especially when both parties have repeatedly stated Vigen had almost total leeway in that regard. (Keep in mind much of the criticism of Vigen was over playcalling, not necessarily just overall scheme.) You can, however, blame Bohl for bad overall game management, surrounding himself with yes men, pushing his preferred overall philosophy, and for bad staff hires and player development in general.

Also keep in mind there are other factors involved too, like our absolute ineptitude when it comes to developing WR talent. This is where Mike Grant's continued rise in the program is absolutely baffling.

Would I prefer Vigen over Bohl as HC here if those were the only two options available? Maybe; probably. Vigen shows a flexibility and a willingness to hire staff around him that do things differently and let them do their thing. However, Bohl has a defensive mind, prowess, and philosophy that we don't really know Vigen possesses. And overall, I think there are better options out there than either of them.

Actually it is that simple. The offensive scheme that produces a run, run, long pass punt is Bohls power run that is not successful. Vigen wasn’t given free reign- he ran what Bohl dictated, no different than we’re seeing under the OC this year. It really isn’t that difficult to put a defensive scheme too. The offense is to predictable and pretty easy to defend. It’s just fact.

 

[DamThatRiver22]

Lol; okay.

 

[laxwyo]

https://youtu.be/eApPD1Os4Tg

interesting video. Has some info on Erickson and Tiller etc. Basically, the last time we won 10 games, we had an innovative offense that tiller learned from erickson. It might not be bad idea for burman to keep feelers out and pay attention to who is running something different and new.

 

[sandiegopoke]

https://youtu.be/eApPD1Os4Tg

interesting video. Has some info on Erickson and Tiller etc. Basically, the last time we won 10 games, we had an innovative offense that tiller learned from erickson. It might not be bad idea for burman to keep feelers out and pay attention to who is running something different and new.

Thanks for that video. It was fun to watch.