A MWC Championship under Shyatt is unlikely

[LanderPoke]

The Ft. Lewis loss is crippling in terms of attendance. Yeah, it's not quite like losing a real game to a D-2, but it's never a good look. I was at the Ft. Lewis game and you should have heard the things people were saying. Granted people were already salty from getting owned by CSU earlier that day, but when Shyatt moans occasionally about attendance he doesn't have any room to talk after he loses to Ft. Lewis on our celebration night in front of what will easily be our biggest crowd of the year.

 

[PorkerPoke]

A big problem for Wyoming in scheduling is indeed getting teams to come to Laramie. One reason is that Wyoming is constantly low in the RPI's. That is the #1 reason why CU discontinued playing UW.

One could argue that so many "big conference" teams play crappy teams OOC just like UW does so what difference does it make. Let's take a program like Wofford for example. Wofford finished with an RPI of 49 last year. They won their REGULAR season conference title and the TOURNEY to make the NCAA's. They were 3-5 against top 100 RPI rated programs. They had three "heavy" teams on their OOC playing at NC State, West Virginia and Duke. They beat NC State and received big time beatings from WV and Duke. The rest of their OOC schedule looks like one UW would play.

Until UW is willing to play more games on a NO RETURN basis at major programs and find a way to WIN once in a while as well as winning the MWC regular season and WINNING post season games then the program will be relagated to lower RPI's and will be ignored on the national stage.

Want to be on the national stage? You win at least one or more NCAA game when you get there. You at least get to the NIT and make it past two rounds. You NEVER lose opening round CBI games on your home floor.

The whole point of this thread in the first place was to be a serious player in the NCAA D1 basketball arena, you have to win when it is big time. You have to get others to take note of your success. It just is not happening.

RPI's:

2012 - 92 versus top 100 rpi: 3-8
2013 - 87 versus top 100 rpi: 3-12
2014 - 141 versus top 100 rpi: 2-6
2015 - 72 versus top 100 rpi: 5-5

Most of those top 100 rpi games are within the MWC. If you cannot win in your conference and you do not play bad ass teams OOC then you are somewhat irrelevant on the national scene and no - major programs will not travel to a program that is not a simple get off the plane stop and especially take a chance on losing to a program with a near 200 RPI rating. Hat's off to California for doing a 2 for 1 and honoring it.

The key to the future - WIN games. Never schedule Bristol. Win in your conference. Ask Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State, UCLA, Arizona, etc if they would be willing to schedule you at their place for an OOC game without a return and then find a way to beat one of those teams. That is how a program like Wofford - oops I mean Wyoming will find RPI and national attention favor.

 

[TSpoke]

So the complaint with Larry is his recruiting butin his first thrown together recruiting class he brought in and developed a first round draft pick and in his second recruiting class he brought in a potential NBA draft pick. This seems to be counter-intuitive. Both on paper and the eye test recruiting has gotten better each year. He has missed on some but to act like Nance and Josh were the only two recruits he's had worth anything is a huge stretch. I don't think in this system you will see much from freshman and just begin to see some things as sophmores(unless you are a Adams or a James). The problem this staff has is the unbalance of the classes. Unless we get the classes balanced we will continue to have good years followed by tough years when all the seniors graduate.
I think its too early to write off any of the Soph or Fresh they have a lot of room to grow and I see flashes of potential in them all. Its just the question of will they do it. It was encouraging to see Herndon knock down the 3 last game. Hope that continues. Still think the young guys are thinking too much on offense and relying too much on Adams instead of playing their game.

We will be in the hunt for a regular season title in 17-18 or 18-19.

 

[stymeman]

it's all about recruiting to Laramie, Wyoming, who really wants to come and be here, he's one heck of a teacher, motivatior and I'm happy to have him, i just wish this University would want to see where they really should put your resources in, do we want to be a football school or basketball school, i think if we did the latter we'd have a bit more better results, 2017-18 i hope is when we see tourney time again!

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

So the complaint with Larry is his recruiting butin his first thrown together recruiting class he brought in and developed a first round draft pick and in his second recruiting class he brought in a potential NBA draft pick. This seems to be counter-intuitive. Both on paper and the eye test recruiting has gotten better each year. He has missed on some but to act like Nance and Josh were the only two recruits he's had worth anything is a huge stretch. I don't think in this system you will see much from freshman and just begin to see some things as sophmores(unless you are a Adams or a James). The problem this staff has is the unbalance of the classes. Unless we get the classes balanced we will continue to have good years followed by tough years when all the seniors graduate.
I think its too early to write off any of the Soph or Fresh they have a lot of room to grow and I see flashes of potential in them all. Its just the question of will they do it. It was encouraging to see Herndon knock down the 3 last game. Hope that continues. Still think the young guys are thinking too much on offense and relying too much on Adams instead of playing their game.

We will be in the hunt for a regular season title in 17-18 or 18-19.

This is a stretch at best....I would agree on paper they may have improved. I would not agree that on the floor they have improved. He has had a number of his projects not produce yet. That happens in every program but I don't think you can say on the floor were better than that first recruiting class...

 

[TSpoke]

So the complaint with Larry is his recruiting butin his first thrown together recruiting class he brought in and developed a first round draft pick and in his second recruiting class he brought in a potential NBA draft pick. This seems to be counter-intuitive. Both on paper and the eye test recruiting has gotten better each year. He has missed on some but to act like Nance and Josh were the only two recruits he's had worth anything is a huge stretch. I don't think in this system you will see much from freshman and just begin to see some things as sophmores(unless you are a Adams or a James). The problem this staff has is the unbalance of the classes. Unless we get the classes balanced we will continue to have good years followed by tough years when all the seniors graduate.
I think its too early to write off any of the Soph or Fresh they have a lot of room to grow and I see flashes of potential in them all. Its just the question of will they do it. It was encouraging to see Herndon knock down the 3 last game. Hope that continues. Still think the young guys are thinking too much on offense and relying too much on Adams instead of playing their game.

We will be in the hunt for a regular season title in 17-18 or 18-19.

This is a stretch at best....I would agree on paper they may have improved. I would not agree that on the floor they have improved. He has had a number of his projects not produce yet. That happens in every program but I don't think you can say on the floor were better than that first recruiting class...

Well not if you are comparing the first class as seniors to the current class as freshman. Riley Grabau looked like one of the biggests busts I've ever seen as a freshman and even though I thought he would be a very good player I never would have guessed what Nance turned into as a freshman. We forget how lost Cooke looked when he first got here(was part of second class as a soph).
Wait until the sophmores are seniors and freshman are juniors or when the freshman are seniors then compare the classes. I think it will show that recruiting has been getting better every year and hopefully it can continue with some of the big targets we have for 2017.

 

[JimmyDimes]

Dumb thread...and I won't even bother reading the WAY TOO LONG initial post. As a couple have pointed out, Shyatt has won a title. And that is an accomplishment alone considering where the program was when he took over. And, if it weren't for a couple injuries, he could have won a regular season title as well.....swept the regular season champ last year.

In regards to recruiting...this is the greenest team he has had to work with. Of course there have been misses...but this team will grow as the season progresses and will be a player in the tourney. One senior, one junior, some promising sophomores, freshman, and redshirts. Most will agree JJ was our best recruit last year....but on paper it was Austin Conway who will be a very good point guard for us for the next 4 years.

To say Shyatt will never win a MWC basketball title is dumb at best and the sign of a hater. No offense.

Go Pokes!!

 

[JimmyDimes]

it's all about recruiting to Laramie, Wyoming, who really wants to come and be here, he's one heck of a teacher, motivatior and I'm happy to have him, i just wish this University would want to see where they really should put your resources in, do we want to be a football school or basketball school, i think if we did the latter we'd have a bit more better results, 2017-18 i hope is when we see tourney time again!

Both and there is no reason we can't be. When I was in school I had the privilege of watching a top 10 football team one year and a top 4 basketball team the next. It can and has happened. In fact, the pieces are in place to make Wyoming a football and basketball program going forward.. And the facilities are being upgraded for both sports as well.

 

[Wyokie]

Both and there is no reason we can't be. When I was in school I had the privilege of watching a top 10 football team one year and a top 4 basketball team the next. It can and has happened. In fact, the pieces are in place to make Wyoming a football and basketball program going forward.. And the facilities are being upgraded for both sports as well.

O.K. how much beer have you been drinking? Have you even seen our football program lately? We royally stink! WE. ARE. NEVER. EVER. GOING. TO BE. A. TOP 10. FOOTBALL TEAM AGAIN! Why? Because we have complete jackasses and morons running the asylum i.e. UW some of which probably have loyalties to BYU but that's for another day of bitching from me!!!! :tickedoff:

Our basketball team might be regular again in the NCAA Tourny & Top 25 but we need to WIN there (March Madness) to get ANY respect!!!! Seriously doubt Shyatt can do it!!!

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

So the complaint with Larry is his recruiting butin his first thrown together recruiting class he brought in and developed a first round draft pick and in his second recruiting class he brought in a potential NBA draft pick. This seems to be counter-intuitive. Both on paper and the eye test recruiting has gotten better each year. He has missed on some but to act like Nance and Josh were the only two recruits he's had worth anything is a huge stretch. I don't think in this system you will see much from freshman and just begin to see some things as sophmores(unless you are a Adams or a James). The problem this staff has is the unbalance of the classes. Unless we get the classes balanced we will continue to have good years followed by tough years when all the seniors graduate.
I think its too early to write off any of the Soph or Fresh they have a lot of room to grow and I see flashes of potential in them all. Its just the question of will they do it. It was encouraging to see Herndon knock down the 3 last game. Hope that continues. Still think the young guys are thinking too much on offense and relying too much on Adams instead of playing their game.

We will be in the hunt for a regular season title in 17-18 or 18-19.

This is a stretch at best....I would agree on paper they may have improved. I would not agree that on the floor they have improved. He has had a number of his projects not produce yet. That happens in every program but I don't think you can say on the floor were better than that first recruiting class...

Well not if you are comparing the first class as seniors to the current class as freshman. Riley Grabau looked like one of the biggests busts I've ever seen as a freshman and even though I thought he would be a very good player I never would have guessed what Nance turned into as a freshman. We forget how lost Cooke looked when he first got here(was part of second class as a soph).
Wait until the sophmores are seniors and freshman are juniors or when the freshman are seniors then compare the classes. I think it will show that recruiting has been getting better every year and hopefully it can continue with some of the big targets we have for 2017.

I agree with you on comparing these freshman to last years seniors, duh. But the misses he's had seem to be big misses. Trey was hailed by Fraschilla, on a national scale, as one of the next great point guards and he's done nothing. Lieberman has greatly underperformed in games compared to what hear of him in practice. Barnes looks like he may have actually regressed. As seniors these kids could be ballers, but right now, this season, they have been complete misses.

 

[seattlecowboy]

I waited until today to respond to the original post as I saw it last night but was watching the Laker game.

So here is my thoughts on it. First off if you are going to make a post like this it is best to use ALL of the facts and not pick and choose them to make your case to lean to one side. Which is what the original post has done. Not trying to pick on the original poster but let's look at everything.

Well if we go back to Shyatt's 2nd year the 2nd time he has been back Wyoming. Wyoming was 12-0 OOC and then because of a really dumb mistake a player gets suspended from the team. Not just any player but the best or 2nd best player on the team depending on who you talk to. He was the best shooter on the team and the best perimeter defender that opened up the offense and spaced it out a huge amount. If Wyoming doesn't lose him then Wyoming is going to finish in the top 3 in the MWC that year. Then they either get a NCAA or at worst an NIT bid. BUT instead we go to the CBI instead.

The very next year Wyoming is again humming along and are in 3rd place in the MWC and would have finished in 3rd and been one of the hottest teams going into the MWC tournament and had a chance to win the thing but again disaster strikes and the best player on the team is gone with an ACL injury. So instead of at worst going to the NIT we end up again in the CBI.

Then last year comes along and even though the best player on the team isn't 100% healed from his injury the team still is in first place and the team is playing well when the best player on the team again along with the 6th man or one of the top bench players at the time both get sick with Mono. They are both out at least 2 to 4 games and they both end up being effected by it for probably closer to about 6 games as it takes time to get back to normal from a sickness like that. Still with all that they end up going into the MWC tournament and winning the thing.

So in reality this team without your best player every single year of the last 3 years getting injured, sick or suspended would have finished in the top 3 in the conference each year and at worst would have had two NIT bids and one NCAA tournament bids with a possibility of one nit bid and two NCAA bids.

Now I know every team has sickness and injuries and so forth but not many teams have it where the very best player on the team is rendered completely useless for the team 2 or 3 years in a row. Any team loses the very best player it has it is going to affect them a lot unless maybe you are Kentucky on most years or Duke.

I don't think Shyatt is a basketball god by any means as the OP put it. I will say though Shyatt is one of the top 2 coaches in the MWC. His in game coaching and adjustments and development of players is as good as anyone in the conference and his defensive philosophies are some of the best in the nation. If you don't believe me look it up for yourself. He is very highly respected as a defensive coach by everyone across the country. He is brought in to numerous camps and clinics to teach defense by many people.

Now we come to this year. Wyoming has the 4th youngest team in the country. When you have the 4th youngest team in the country you are probably going to have a rebuilding year most years unless you are Kentucky and Duke and get one and done's which Wyoming will never get and either will a lot of other teams. If Shyatt was getting the same recruits that SDSU or UNLV was getting we would be going to the sweet 16 every year.

Honestly I don't have a problem that this is a rebuilding year or a down year when I look at all the facts which the OP should have done as well as everyone else. Next year Wyoming is going to be very good with a lot more experience.

I agree that I think Marshall and Naughton should get more playing time but that is the only gripe I have with the coaching staff to be honest. You can sit there and list all these players that were listed and grade them out but every school has players that leave and has attrition so I don't really see the big deal. This last recruiting class Shyatt got was very good and you will see it in the future. It would have been nice to get a JC big man for this year but other than that I don't really think the coaching staff has whiffed on anything other than that.

I told everyone at the beginning of the year when everyone was talking about all this depth this year that Wyoming would not have depth this year because the talent was too young and that next year would be the year you would notice it more. I still hold to that and as you can see this year is not the year for the depth. After losing 4 senior starters I knew we would have a rebuilding year this year. Again unless you are one of the blue blood programs it is going to be hard to have a good year the year after you lose 4 senior starters.

Sure Wyoming can be more consistent but I think that lies more with making sure players stay healthy and not getting injured more than anything with this staff . You can call it bad karma , bad luck or whatever you want but Wyoming just got unlucky 3 straight years with having their best player go down. If not for that this thread wouldn't have even been created and the over reaction wouldn't be there. Honestly I have to chuckle a little bit at everyone who thought this team this year was going to make an NCAA or NIT run after losing so many senior starters off of last years team as it just wasn't going to happen.

There is talk about consistency like Ben Jacobson or Bryce Drew . Well Bryce Drew is in a one bid league every year the Horizon league so I don't really think that is a very good comparison and he also hasn't had his best player go down 3 years in a row.

Here is Ben Jacobson's record ...tell me how it is any better than Shyatt's and again he never has had his best player go down 3 years in a row:

2006–07 Northern Iowa 18–13 9–9 5th
2007–08 Northern Iowa 18–14 9–9 T–5th
2008–09 Northern Iowa 23–11 14–4 T–1st NCAA First Round
2009–10 Northern Iowa 30–5 15–3 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2010–11 Northern Iowa 20–14 10–8 T–4th CIT Quarterfinals
2011–12 Northern Iowa 20–14 9–9 T–3rd NIT Second Round
2012–13 Northern Iowa 21–15 11–7 3rd CIT Semifinals
2013–14 Northern Iowa 16–15 10–8 3rd
2014–15 Northern Iowa 31–4 16–2 2nd NCAA Third Round
2015–16 Northern Iowa 8–5 0–0
Northern Iowa: 205–109 (.653) 103–59 (.636)

As you can see he has had two really good years. If you were a fan of N. Iowa at the end of 2013-14 you would be over reacting because he only went 20-14 , 20-14, 21-15 and 16-15 4 straight years in a row in the MVC which is usually a 2 bid conference but the MVC is a good basketball conference. Not really any different than what Shyatt has done at Wyoming other than he has been there longer and never had Seth Tuttle go down with Mono or an ACL injury.

People are welcome to their opinions but make sure you list all the facts before you make an over reaction post.

As Shyatt gets these classes more evened out there will be more consistency and you will start to see it with next years team. Go look at Steve Fishers record his first few years at SDSU and tell me how long it took him to start being consistent. Not until year 7 of him being there were they consistent. He had one good year before that. We are in year 5 of Shyatt being back and I see a similar trend but Shyatt may beat him by a year being more consistent.

Honestly with the 4th youngest team in the country this year and the fact Wyoming didn't get blown out by Cal or Houston i think shows just how good this coaching staff is and that for the players being so young they aren't that bad. They just need this year of Experience. They do need to get another big guy but the guys we have will be a lot better next year. Also if you look at Shyatt's games he rarely ever gets blown out by anyone unless he is missing a bunch of guys. The fact we have been in pretty much every game this year speaks volumes to me more so than the fact we lost some of them.

Anyways I will end my rant and I would hope that people would look at everything and not leave some of the bigger details out. One last thing as far as scheduling goes Larry Eustachy already confirmed what Shyatt has said and that is he tried to get teams to do 3 for 1's coming to CSU and nobody would do it. The fact is no one wants to come play CSU or Wyoming on their home courts. As far as on the road I am not sure. Maybe going on the road is something they can do.

I'll let you guys get back to your fun. :thumb:

We all want the same thing and I understand some people frustrations but you have to look at the whole picture.

Go Pokes!!!

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

Feels like this thread is really about where you think the Pokes belong on the national scale. Do you think we should be a top 50 team every year? Top 75? Top 100? Is it ok if we slip into the 170's during rebuilding seasons? Do you expect us to be in the top 125 during rebuilding seasons? All of this stuff takes some time to establish but think about what Shyatt has done. He probably should have been in the big dance twice by now but we've been snake bit in those past years. That said here's a quick Sagarin rating breakdown of our finished end of year rankings on his scale since Shy took over.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sagarin/2015/conference/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2011-12- 101
2012-13- 102
2013-14- 127
2014-15- 111
2015-16- 111

Certainly to me that's nothing to bitch about even though I still have a tendency to bitch on here. That's pretty fucking awesome work really and think back to how tumultuous those seasons were. We had a lot of bad breaks go our way in almost every one of those seasons. Do you think Sagarin ratings are bullshit? Well that's up to you but here's our boy Schroydaddy's numbers for comparison.

2007-08- 193
2008-09- 124
2009-10- 237
2010-11- 231

I'm not totally wine and roses with Shyatt but I might be close. He's dealt with bad breaks and been a LEADER throughout. He's got the program back on track with the possibility of getting us firmly established by the time he leaves. "You don't know what you got till its gone"- Larry Shyatt...guess what he was fucking right about that too look at Nance, that team, that shit was special and the state didn't get behind it enough either.

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

I've also gotta wonder if some of these voices are the same people that thought Tiller wasn't worth the money or effort to hold him here :roll: :roll: :roll:
I remember that shit and it turned out fucking awesome :thumb:

 

[Arthur Fonzerelli]

OK GUYS IT Was me OK??!? it was me. IT WAS MEEEE!!!! Crickies and stuff the chairs come OUT NOW WHAT THE WORLD. basketBALL!!!! BASKETBALL!! Who HASN'T triED it?! I LIKE STUFF and ate an ORANGE AND NOW THIS?

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

OK GUYS IT Was me OK??!? it was me. IT WAS MEEEE!!!! Crickies and stuff the chairs come OUT NOW WHAT THE WORLD. basketBALL!!!! BASKETBALL!! Who HASN'T triED it?! I LIKE STUFF and ate an ORANGE AND NOW THIS?

I was really waiting for Fonze's take on this one. Thanks for the insight Fonzo. I totally agreedlized with you but THEN THE PURPLE TOOK OVER. WHISZZIPPDEE WHOOOZAPPITY HOOPCITY DO. WHAT'S WITH THE FUSSCITY BUSITTY? Who hasn't tried it right? RIGHT!!!!

 

[LanderPoke]

OK GUYS IT Was me OK??!? it was me. IT WAS MEEEE!!!! Crickies and stuff the chairs come OUT NOW WHAT THE WORLD. basketBALL!!!! BASKETBALL!! Who HASN'T triED it?! I LIKE STUFF and ate an ORANGE AND NOW THIS?

I was really waiting for Fonze's take on this one. Thanks for the insight Fonzo. I totally agreedlized with you but THEN THE PURPLE TOOK OVER. WHISZZIPPDEE WHOOOZAPPITY HOOPCITY DO. WHAT'S WITH THE FUSSCITY BUSITTY? Who hasn't tried it right? RIGHT!!!!

I highly value the astute observations of the Fonz. His knowledge and insights are indispensable to this forum. Wahoo!

 

[bladerunnr]

I never would have believed you if you told me we would win a MWC tourney this soon after HS left the program in ashes. What Shyatt has done is just a little short of turning water into wine.

This team is going to need a little time. Justin James is going to be really really good. Jmac needs to find his shot and Herndon needs to be more assertive. We are not that far away from being pretty good.

Shyatt is the best thing that's happened to this program since Brandenberg. I hope he stays for a long time.

 

[SDPokeFan]

I don't get all the pessimism. When's the last time we won a conference tournament before last year? Do you all want to return to Heath Schroyer's glory days? How quickly we forget. I agree Shyatt or whomever has got to stop scheduling horrid teams at home, and they need to quit losing at home every time the start to gain some momentum. The fact is, Schroyer buried this team so far I don't know if attendance will ever recover. The casual fan just stopped caring about Wyoming basketball (and I fear football is headed down the same path). But this is a young team that has been in every game. It's not like it's getting pasted by 30 points every game. It just needs to learn to win, and learn to finish. And it DESPERATELY needs to find a post player with a pulse. Sooner or later the team will start winning these close games. We just need a player or two to step up so Josh Adams doesn't have to play hero ball every game.

 

[castlerocker]

OMG!

Cosmic Cowboy wrote:
Arthur Fonzerelli wrote:
OK GUYS IT Was me OK??!? it was me. IT WAS MEEEE!!!! Crickies and stuff the chairs come OUT NOW WHAT THE WORLD. basketBALL!!!! BASKETBALL!! Who HASN'T triED it?! I LIKE STUFF and ate an ORANGE AND NOW THIS?

I was really waiting for Fonze's take on this one. Thanks for the insight Fonzo. I totally agreedlized with you but THEN THE PURPLE TOOK OVER. WHISZZIPPDEE WHOOOZAPPITY HOOPCITY DO. WHAT'S WITH THE FUSSCITY BUSITTY? Who hasn't tried it right? RIGHT!!!!

The Cosmic Cowboy (solarsystem dude) and the Fonz are comparing notes and Fred Flintstone is waiting for his prediction to come true (the end of the world no less).

and the score........OMG, the score!!!!!

 

[McPeachy]

The fact is, BURMAN buried this team so far I don't know if attendance will ever recover. The casual fan just stopped caring about Wyoming basketball (and I fear football is headed down the same path).

FIFY

Don't get me wrong Heath is a piece of shit...but let's put responsibility where it needs to be put.