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25-26 Basketball Roster

McPeachy said:
No, I don't - that isn't my point. But that is (odds speaking) a much better chance at success, than trying to get 4 or 5 retreads from NAIA or D3, that may or may not even be able to keep up with our competition, and will be here for a year, or maybe two.

Drake was pre NIL. So, really was Kyman and Agbonk. My point stands, if Wyoming wants to make the dance and win a Conf Championship, it isn't going to happen with NAIA / D3 basketball players. I hope to be proven wrong in the future, but I think that is highly unlikely.
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Umm…Kyman and Agbonkpolo came here because of the bag of ‘NIL’ cash. The big programs just weren’t throwing any money their way (and in hindsight it is clear why).

Some on this board were high on Jordan Nesbitt last year simply because he was a 4 star recruit out of high school with big time offers. I’d say his 8 pts a game, 34% from the field and 27.7% from 3 was largely underwhelming and that we can get more from the D2 guys.

I do agree that we could buy a conference championship with D1 transfers if we can divert about $10 million per year to pay the basketball team. I just believe that is a big waste and misuse of funds. People are free to spend their money how they want; I’m not donating to pay the team. But BYU is paying one guy $7 million per year so there’s that.
 
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McPeachy said:
Not all players are going to get paid, there is only so much $$$$ to go around.
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I'm genuinely curious if anyone knows where this dividing line stands currently.

Are the top D2 guys regularly gaining NIL offers? What about low to mid major players that have stats consistent with being a role player? How about mid tier high school recruits?

How low do we have to go before we hit the subset of players that aren't garnering NIL offers? Because it appears those are the players UW basketball is going to be concentrating on.
 
TheRealUW said:
I'm genuinely curious if anyone knows where this dividing line stands currently.

Are the top D2 guys regularly gaining NIL offers? What about low to mid major players that have stats consistent with being a role player? How about mid tier high school recruits?

How low do we have to go before we hit the subset of players that aren't garnering NIL offers? Because it appears those are the players UW basketball is going to be concentrating on.
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Great questions, and I have none of the answers. I just am kind of over-realizing that Linder / Burman really screwed our hoops program. If we were annually winning 20 to 25 games, at the time of NIL, at least we would attract talent like (barf) CSewe (barf) has.
 
OrediggerPoke said:
I do agree that we could buy a conference championship with D1 transfers if we can divert about $10 million per year to pay the basketball team. I just believe that is a big waste and misuse of funds. People are free to spend their money how they want; I’m not donating to pay the team. But BYU is paying one guy $7 million per year so there’s that.
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Who in the MW is paying $10 million a year to win the conference championship? What did Utard State pay out last year? What about New Mexico? $10 million? I don't think that is remotely close to accurate. Maybe $1,000,000 - but that is even a stretch.
 
McPeachy said:
Who in the MW is paying $10 million a year to win the conference championship? What did Utard State pay out last year? What about New Mexico? $10 million? I don't think that is remotely close to accurate. Maybe $1,000,000 - but that is even a stretch.
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The ten million has been reported as the top tier of basketball schools. If Wyoming had that I'm pretty sure we win a conference championship.

What is the actual number to win at Wyoming? I have no idea. I would expect it to be a premium though. As we've discussed... Merely having "as good" of facilities and being able to pay "as much" for coaches as the rest of the conference hasn't yielded good results. If the goal is to win... spend and spend big. Don't want to spend big? Don't be surprised with results like we've seen this century. I think that is Oredigger' point...
At least that's how I take it.
 
307bball said:
The ten million has been reported as the top tier of basketball schools. If Wyoming had that I'm pretty sure we win a conference championship.

What is the actual number to win at Wyoming? I have no idea. I would expect it to be a premium though. As we've discussed... Merely having "as good" of facilities and being able to pay "as much" for coaches as the rest of the conference hasn't yielded good results. If the goal is to win... spend and spend big. Don't want to spend big? Don't be surprised with results like we've seen this century. I think that is Oredigger' point...
At least that's how I take it.
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My point, again, is if we are ok being mediocre (at best), then let's keep doing the same shit we did last year (and the year before I guess). Tossing dollars around can't be the only answer - as to why I asked what did others "pay" for their conference championship this past season (NM and Utard State)? It wasn't $10,000,000 or even close - but curious what it actually was.

What ISN'T my point, again, is that we need to pay to play - we just need to keep up with the Joneses - the Utard States or CSewes of the MW. If we can't do that, we need to find another way, or close up shop. And I simply am NOT convinced going the NAIA / D3 route for "talent" is the way.

As was discussed here in great length (and I happen to be on the same page as Oredigger) - my money has way more important areas to be involved in, than paying 18 or 19 year old athletes, at the college level.

Wicks got a pass last year, because of the Linder timing. Does he get a pass this year as well?
 
307bball said:
The ten million has been reported as the top tier of basketball schools. If Wyoming had that I'm pretty sure we win a conference championship.

What is the actual number to win at Wyoming? I have no idea. I would expect it to be a premium though. As we've discussed... Merely having "as good" of facilities and being able to pay "as much" for coaches as the rest of the conference hasn't yielded good results. If the goal is to win... spend and spend big. Don't want to spend big? Don't be surprised with results like we've seen this century. I think that is Oredigger' point...
At least that's how I take it.
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I read Boise's basketball NIL budget was $2 million, just for hoops.
 
307bball said:
What is the actual number to win at Wyoming? I have no idea. I would expect it to be a premium though. As we've discussed... Merely having "as good" of facilities and being able to pay "as much" for coaches as the rest of the conference hasn't yielded good results.
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Interestingly, NIL helps level the playing field for UW in regards to recruiting. Before NIL, UW had to try to convince kids to come to UW with traditional pitches of facilities, coaching, location, history, etc. Those recruiting battles are hard to win for a school like UW.

But money is the ultimate equalizer. I get the feeling that kids will go anywhere as long as they get paid. And for basketball in particular, it might only take $5-10k extra per year to sway a kid away from another school. If UW could find a way to outspend their conference opponents, they would almost be guaranteed to consistently win.

I have no idea what the top of the MWC is spending per year for basketball recruits, but UW and Tom Burman sure as hell should. Shoot for 20% over that and you have a yourself a winning formula. I know, I know...getting the funds is the hard part.
 
I kind of have a foot in both camps. I agree we really don't know what we have until the season begins, but am I excited we are signing guys from Lake Superior State? Not hardly.

I genuinely question if Wyoming will ever challenge for a conference championship in football or men's basketball ever again. That's a depressing sentence to type. At the same time, I'm not paying some teenager a dime to play a sport. They can f**k all the way off with that.
 
McPeachy said:
Who in the MW is paying $10 million a year to win the conference championship? What did Utard State pay out last year? What about New Mexico? $10 million? I don't think that is remotely close to accurate. Maybe $1,000,000 - but that is even a stretch.
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As 307 indicates, $10 million per year is about the going rate for the top programs in the country. Top mid majors are paying roughly $2-$3 million according to nil-ncaa.com. BYU will be paying one player $7 million for one year next year.

To be comfortable that we could ‘buy’ a championship, I believe $10 million is the number. Simply spending the same amount of money as San Diego State guarantees nothing.
 
307bball said:
The ten million has been reported as the top tier of basketball schools. If Wyoming had that I'm pretty sure we win a conference championship.

What is the actual number to win at Wyoming? I have no idea. I would expect it to be a premium though. As we've discussed... Merely having "as good" of facilities and being able to pay "as much" for coaches as the rest of the conference hasn't yielded good results. If the goal is to win... spend and spend big. Don't want to spend big? Don't be surprised with results like we've seen this century. I think that is Oredigger' point...
At least that's how I take it.
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Yes - you nailed my point. Although I believe every dollar of NIL is basically a waste of money given the current arm’s race and the ROI.
 
TheRealUW said:
Interestingly, NIL helps level the playing field for UW in regards to recruiting. Before NIL, UW had to try to convince kids to come to UW with traditional pitches of facilities, coaching, location, history, etc. Those recruiting battles are hard to win for a school like UW.

But money is the ultimate equalizer. I get the feeling that kids will go anywhere as long as they get paid. And for basketball in particular, it might only take $5-10k extra per year to sway a kid away from another school. If UW could find a way to outspend their conference opponents, they would almost be guaranteed to consistently win.

I have no idea what the top of the MWC is spending per year for basketball recruits, but UW and Tom Burman sure as hell should. Shoot for 20% over that and you have a yourself a winning formula. I know, I know...getting the funds is the hard part.
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We up it an extra $5-$10k, then SDSU matches and the beat goes on. None of it is related to economic returns. Where do you draw the line in the hunt to buy championships?

For me - it’s $0. I don’t believe my hard earned dollars nor any public funds should go to 18-22 year olds so they can drive vehicles I can only dream about.

For Phil Knight and the billionaire donors at SMU, etc … - There is no limit. Knight said he will spend as much as it takes to buy a football championship and he has the means to do so.

Overall - the theory that Wyoming could or should buy championships is not based in reality. We don’t have any billionaire donors that loose with their money and Wyoming fans are by and large fiscal conservatives who aren’t going to be throwing money away like that and for sure aren’t going to vote in the legislature to divert funds to pay players as they have in football crazy Georgia and Alabama.
 
McPeachy said:
My point, again, is if we are ok being mediocre (at best), then let's keep doing the same shit we did last year (and the year before I guess). Tossing dollars around can't be the only answer - as to why I asked what did others "pay" for their conference championship this past season (NM and Utard State)? It wasn't $10,000,000 or even close - but curious what it actually was.

What ISN'T my point, again, is that we need to pay to play - we just need to keep up with the Joneses - the Utard States or CSewes of the MW. If we can't do that, we need to find another way, or close up shop. And I simply am NOT convinced going the NAIA / D3 route for "talent" is the way.

As was discussed here in great length (and I happen to be on the same page as Oredigger) - my money has way more important areas to be involved in, than paying 18 or 19 year old athletes, at the college level.

Wicks got a pass last year, because of the Linder timing. Does he get a pass this year as well?
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NO! If Utah State, CSU and other similarly situated schools can reload after being depleted and win (and go to the Dance), we should expect the same. Native son or not.
 
bladerunnr said:
Here's a NCAA link I found to NIL and other forms of revenue (ticket sales, donations) for MW schools. Have no idea to its validity.

NCAA Revenue Sharing & NIL Collectives – Mountain West Schools – NCAA Revenue Sharing & NIL Estimates 2025

nil-ncaa.com nil-ncaa.com
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Everything I've seen has Wyoming in the meaty middle of all of this stuff in the current MW....That will roughly remain in the New MW. I still think the road to Wyoming actually being dominant in an athletic conference either involves some wealthy folks paying the players or getting into a group of schools that have a sane model for this involving something like a salary and a cap.
 
The decision was made a long time ago. For us and by us. Between the persistence of the big conference/big school cartels and small thinking in WY and at UW, we are cooked. It’s just reality. Objects at rest stay at rest - unless acted on by an outside force. Until leadership and thinking changes, we will just fall further and further behind. Like nil/hate nil or like the portal/hate the portal- what we think doesn’t matter. It’s what we do that matters. And by all outward facing signs, we are doing all we need to do to be a middling Big Sky or Missouri Valley team.
 
307bball said:
Everything I've seen has Wyoming in the meaty middle of all of this stuff in the current MW....That will roughly remain in the New MW. I still think the road to Wyoming actually being dominant in an athletic conference either involves some wealthy folks paying the players or getting into a group of schools that have a sane model for this involving something like a salary and a cap.
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Agree. It’s a fool’s errand to chase the Joneses and I am fine with Wyoming being in a conference with like minded fiscally conservative spenders when it comes to paying athletes.

I do point out that Grand Canyon has a very different objective than Wyoming and I wish they weren’t in the conference. They will spend money on athletes to continue to build a ‘brand’ in the hopes to attract more students willing to pay for their relatively worthless online degrees.
 
OrediggerPoke said:
Agree. It’s a fool’s errand to chase the Joneses and I am fine with Wyoming being in a conference with like minded fiscally conservative spenders when it comes to paying athletes.
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In other words, you are fine with UW being perpetually mediocre. Great.
 
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