LOL, with UNM only scoring 34 and us 48, I think 1st one to 50 should win this game...lol....sure hope the adjustments are made to not live by that dreaded 3 all the time, take it to Kirk, and get Snell in foul trouble and we should be ok, it's going to be interesting, Who'll be there?? myself and 1 other as usual...GO POKES
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1st one to 50 wins Wed
- Thread starter stymeman
- Start date
BeaverPoke
Well-known member
I will be there. We have got to win these next 2 games in mwc play....
Bryoming
Well-known member
My support is done for a while. I'm sick of watching this team just pass the ball around the perimeter for 34 seconds and heave up a prayer as the clock expires. Until we can find some offense I'm done. Sorry, but if they're going to waste my time they aren't going to get it.
ItSucksToBeACSURam
Well-known member
+6. I'm a Cowboy fan through losing and winning. Wouldn't mind some more of the latter though...
seattlecowboy
Well-known member
The people that say they are sick of watching the team pass the ball around for the whole shot clock i'm not sure what you want them to do? That's how they play. They run a motion offense and work clock to make the other team guard them and try to get a shot out of it. Part of the offense is to slow the pace and work the shot clock.
The problem is not them working the shot clock, the problem is the shots that were falling earlier in the year when we were winning games were going in and now the same shots are not going in. That is the simple fact of the matter. As we all know part of the reason they aren't going in as much is because Martinez who is the teams best shooter isn't playing so it clogs up the middle more but not only does it clog up the middle it also takes away one less guy on the perimeter to swing the ball to so it allows for perimeter guys to get trapped more and makes it easier to double up guys on the perimeter as well because no one can consistently knock down a shot from outside.
Gilmore was shooting 42% from 3 before he got to the Fresno game and ever since he has shot probably about 15% from 3. Grabau was knocking more shots down and shooting over 40% from 3 as well but now his shots aren't falling and his percentage is probably 20% or less that last couple of games. Adams hasn't been able to throw it in the ocean either. Now the last game I noticed that it is starting to become more of a mental block and now even if someone does have an open shot for quick second they are second guessing themselves and not taking it because they don't want to miss. It is turning into a vicisious cycle.
Until someone can knock down some 3's consistently we are screwed. All this talk of taking quicker shots isn't going to do the team any good either because that is not the way they play. If they start taking quicker shots and they miss them then it will speed up the game and will turn into an advantage for the other teams we play in this conference that like to get out and run more such as UNLV, CSU, Boise and even SDSU and New Mexico are better uptempo teams than Wyoming is. So instead of losing by 10 we will lose by 20 or 25 because the game gets sped up with bad quick shots.
The bottomline is the team needs to start knocking down 3's when they get the chance to take them in their halfcourt sets. If they don't it won't matter. Coming down and jacking up 3's earlier in the shot clock will only get us beat by more. Teams aren't going to let us get the ball inside anymore either.
If I'm coaching the opposing team playing Wyoming I tell them to just pack in a zone and don't let Nance or Washington get the ball and make us shoots 3's and if we make a few of them so what just keep making us shoot more of them because over the course of a game we will only shoot 20% or worse and shoot ourselves out of the game. Wyoming is going to have to prove they can consistently knock them down.
Taking quicker shots is not the answer in my opinion.
The problem is not them working the shot clock, the problem is the shots that were falling earlier in the year when we were winning games were going in and now the same shots are not going in. That is the simple fact of the matter. As we all know part of the reason they aren't going in as much is because Martinez who is the teams best shooter isn't playing so it clogs up the middle more but not only does it clog up the middle it also takes away one less guy on the perimeter to swing the ball to so it allows for perimeter guys to get trapped more and makes it easier to double up guys on the perimeter as well because no one can consistently knock down a shot from outside.
Gilmore was shooting 42% from 3 before he got to the Fresno game and ever since he has shot probably about 15% from 3. Grabau was knocking more shots down and shooting over 40% from 3 as well but now his shots aren't falling and his percentage is probably 20% or less that last couple of games. Adams hasn't been able to throw it in the ocean either. Now the last game I noticed that it is starting to become more of a mental block and now even if someone does have an open shot for quick second they are second guessing themselves and not taking it because they don't want to miss. It is turning into a vicisious cycle.
Until someone can knock down some 3's consistently we are screwed. All this talk of taking quicker shots isn't going to do the team any good either because that is not the way they play. If they start taking quicker shots and they miss them then it will speed up the game and will turn into an advantage for the other teams we play in this conference that like to get out and run more such as UNLV, CSU, Boise and even SDSU and New Mexico are better uptempo teams than Wyoming is. So instead of losing by 10 we will lose by 20 or 25 because the game gets sped up with bad quick shots.
The bottomline is the team needs to start knocking down 3's when they get the chance to take them in their halfcourt sets. If they don't it won't matter. Coming down and jacking up 3's earlier in the shot clock will only get us beat by more. Teams aren't going to let us get the ball inside anymore either.
If I'm coaching the opposing team playing Wyoming I tell them to just pack in a zone and don't let Nance or Washington get the ball and make us shoots 3's and if we make a few of them so what just keep making us shoot more of them because over the course of a game we will only shoot 20% or worse and shoot ourselves out of the game. Wyoming is going to have to prove they can consistently knock them down.
Taking quicker shots is not the answer in my opinion.
Well the opponents from now on out (and in the last few games) have been watching the Poke's tapes and know exactly what to do: 1) don't waste energy putting pressure on until clock down to about 25 seconds, 2) clog up the post defensively, 3) apply some pressure right at half-court (like AFA did to get turnovers). On offense drive to the basket as much as possible - it's usually good for a foul. Don't let the Pokes know when you're going to shoot (as the Pokes do - with 5 or 6 on the clock)
I think our guards were not as good as we thought to be.
If Cowboys want to pull W out of next coming up UNM game, our guards should come up and find a way to shoot 3.
At least shouldn't be outplayed by the opponent.
It is the major issue I noticed over the last two games vs UNLV and AFA.
I still go to a game and root for my team.
If Cowboys want to pull W out of next coming up UNM game, our guards should come up and find a way to shoot 3.
At least shouldn't be outplayed by the opponent.
It is the major issue I noticed over the last two games vs UNLV and AFA.
I still go to a game and root for my team.
Bryoming
Well-known member
Running the motion offense results in mismatches, defenders out of position, and good open looks. They've been running motion sets all year, and they've mostly been successful. We just need the shots to fall. It would also help if they'd get into their offense right away and not stand around for 10 seconds.seattlecowboy said:
What they have run against zone defense is NOT a motion offense. A motion offense doesn't work well against a zone. You beat a zone with quick passes to get the defense out of their rotation. Wyoming didn't come down and make quick passes, they came down and dicked around until there were 10 seconds left of the shot clock (which essentially let Air Force rest up), made 2 or 3 passes, tried and failed a dribble drive, and heaved up a prayer. That isn't an offense in any level of the sport.
I'll give Air Force a lot of credit for playing solid defense, but we haven't had an offense to speak of for weeks now. Something needs to change, and until it does I'll be perfectly content watching the games on tv where I can change the channel when I get tired of the ineptitude.
BeaverPoke
Well-known member
Our guard play is really suffering. Yes it is because we do not have Martinez but instead of just calling him stupid I'm gonna try and not just blame it all on him.
Josh Adams is a stud, we all love him but he is a HORRIBLE 3 point shooter.
10-52 on the season.
Sobey looks like he has the confidence to shoot the 3s, unfortunately his 3s don't drop like Lukes.
Grabau needs to start shooting the 3 better. His last 3 games he is a combined 2/11. The 4 games before that he is 12/24.
Gilmore, man he takes so many from Jimmer range...that is the worst thing ever. He actually hit that one towards the end of the game that surprised everyone in the AA, but that is the only clutch thing he has done lately.
Shyatt wants us to shoot the 3. And I am not opposed to Leonard and Larry tossing up a combined 4-6 per game, but it has to start with the guards hitting the 3s.
McManamen probably isn't coming off the bench to become our savior of the season, so I think it has to start with Grabau and Sobey. Make it so the opposing teams HAVE to guard us heavy outside so Adams can get through by slashing or we can give it Leonard and Larry.
Josh Adams is a stud, we all love him but he is a HORRIBLE 3 point shooter.
10-52 on the season.
Sobey looks like he has the confidence to shoot the 3s, unfortunately his 3s don't drop like Lukes.
Grabau needs to start shooting the 3 better. His last 3 games he is a combined 2/11. The 4 games before that he is 12/24.
Gilmore, man he takes so many from Jimmer range...that is the worst thing ever. He actually hit that one towards the end of the game that surprised everyone in the AA, but that is the only clutch thing he has done lately.
Shyatt wants us to shoot the 3. And I am not opposed to Leonard and Larry tossing up a combined 4-6 per game, but it has to start with the guards hitting the 3s.
McManamen probably isn't coming off the bench to become our savior of the season, so I think it has to start with Grabau and Sobey. Make it so the opposing teams HAVE to guard us heavy outside so Adams can get through by slashing or we can give it Leonard and Larry.
fromolwyoming
Well-known member
Yep. Adams is a slasher type who can dunk like a post player. Sobey is usually in range of the 3, but he's usually just a bit off. Gilmore, well, his 3s tend to be way strong or not strong enough (minus the rare exception). Grabau, he will have time to develop, but he will need to work on his 3s in the off-season. Nance, he can knock them down, but he;s much better down low an he knows that. Washington is the same (usually). The 2 down low make a great duo, with Adams as a good slasher, but without the consistent outside shooter like what we had with Martinez, well, the last few games speak for themselves.BeaverPoke said:
seattlecowboy
Well-known member
WYO1016 said:
I know a motion offense doesn't work against a zone. They need to be able to dribble drive, that's how you beat a zone and flashing someone to the high post and make good passes out of it. The problem is even if they dribble drive and kick out for a 3 nobody is hitting anything from out there. They should probably have Adams and Sobey driving since they seem to be the two best at it and kicking out to Grabau and Gilmore for three's and looking for Nance and Washington cutting to the basket. None of it matters though unless Grabau or Gilmore can knock some shots down. They need to hit atleast 35% from 3 minimum or teams will just keep packing it in.
It won't do any good to come down and pass it around real quick and jack up a quick shot since if it misses then off to the races the other team goes and we are in an up and down game (which we don't play) and like i said before we lose by 25 instead of 10. This team isn't built to play an up and down game and come down and pass it fast and jack up a quick 3.
I understand what you're saying about trying to come down and pass it around real fast and take the first open look but I don't think this team can play like that over the coarse of a whole game. I think the pace of the game would end up to fast and they would get blown out. JMHO.
BeaverPoke
Well-known member
calpoke25 said:
I bet Hankerson can. Too bad he is in street clothes for every game til next season.
seattlecowboy
Well-known member
calpoke25 said:
I agree that Grabau can't dribble drive but Sobey can. I've seen him do it multiple times this year. He just did it a couple of times last week against UNLV and made a couple of shots and got fouled on one of them. I have seen him do it against Colorado and a few other teams as well. Adams is athletic enough to do it also. They don't have to get all the way to the hoop anyways, they just need to draw the defense to them when they get into the zone defense and be able to find the open man.
it's all frustrating, but we know it can be done!!! What I'd like to see is more penetration to the hole, even if you get blocked or not, there's 4 things that can happen when that's done, score, draw a foul, get blocked or miss, so it's 50% for 50% against. take chances, and try new things, the glamour of the 3 has hurt the game i.m.o. Larry Nance needs to really start finding his shot, posting up and getting tough down low. We usually win when we get to the foul line more often, also, if the 3 isn't working, get it to a 15-18 ft jumper, hey 2 points is better than 0 imo again. We all know we can beat a top 25 team and man oh man another upset tomorrow would be just what the doctor ordered. Give Derek Cooke more time down low as well. GO POKES
stymeman said:
Since we don't have any good 3 point shooting going on right now, I would give Derek Cooke more PT. We could definitely use some more muscle in the middle to battle what all the teams are doing against us now. If he fouls out, no problem, but we need more than one big strong presence under the basket. I'm not talking about playing dirty - I'm just saying we need to be as physical as the other team. The game plan of all the opposing teams right now is to pack it in under the basket and be very physical.
ItSucksToBeACSURam
Well-known member
A thought that has been discussed to great lengths by myself and the group I go with, why not run two guards (Gillmore and Adams), a modified slasher/punisher forward (Leonard) and two power forwards (Larry and Cooke)? Can it really be any different or worse? WE cant shoot threes why not make it even harder on teams to control the paint?
