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@ SJSU

They seemed to have little trouble getting it down to the goal line in overtime. I thought they had a pretty good chance of punching it in for the win. When they centered it on second down, my first thought was dumbass forgot what down it was. A win is a win, I guess. My confidence in this coaching staff doing the right thing is null.
 
Some folks are missing the risks running another play. A myriad of things could go wrong (and probably would with this staff). Correctly recognized is that fumble has a real chance of happening. In addition - You could have a hold, a personal foul or some other silly penalty that makes the kick more difficult. Risk was reduced by kicking there and not running another play.
 
Some folks are missing the risks running another play. A myriad of things could go wrong (and probably would with this staff). Correctly recognized is that fumble has a real chance of happening. In addition - You could have a hold, a personal foul or some other silly penalty that makes the kick more difficult. Risk was reduced by kicking there and not running another play.
Cody gave some information on that play from the presser today:

Why did the Cowboys kneel the ball and kick the game-winning 21-yard field goal in overtime instead of just pounding it in the end zone? Sawvel said after watching the first-down try by Samuel "Tote" Harris he saw the ball move in his arms after the sophomore running back took a big hit at the goal line. It was really that simple.
 
If he shanks it or gets blocked, i guarantee everyone who says the kick was the correct call would be screaming to high heaven. I'd be curious to know the math. I have a hard time believing that trying to punch it into the endzone, failing and then kicking the fg is worse statistically. It's literally two chances, one being the same thing that we ended up doing.
💯. Two chances vs one. I am dumbfounded
 
💯. Two chances vs one. I am dumbfounded
AI Concludes that you typically have a BETTER chance of winning by kicking than running another play by a small total of 0.38% (but depends on the accuracy of the kicker as well) but results in the times you don't convert being reduced by about 16% (i.e. don't convert 2.38% of the time you run then kick, don't convert 2% of the time you kick early):

Conclusion: "In college football overtime, if the opponent has already been stopped and any field goal wins, I would strongly favor kicking on third down from the 2-yard line."

Mathematical Analysis:
With an above-average college kicker, I estimate that kicking immediately has roughly a 97–98% chance of winning, compared with approximately 96–98% for running another play and then kicking if necessary.

The important distinction is that another offensive play introduces risks that don't exist if you kick immediately: offensive holding, false starts, a bad exchange, a fumble, or a tackle for loss. A penalty doesn't necessarily lose the game, but it can turn a 19-yard field goal into a 29-yard or longer attempt.

These are modeled estimates rather than measured probabilities for this exact situation. Let's incorporate those risks explicitly.

A​

Assume the following for an above-average FBS kicker and a reasonably effective short-yardage offense.

AssumptionProbability
Make a centered 19-yard FG98%
Score a TD on the run50%
Turnover on the run1%
Penalty or significant loss that worsens the kick5%
Other unsuccessful run, leaving an easy FG44%
Make FG after penalty/significant loss90%
The 98% kicking estimate is plausible for a strong college kicker at this distance, although not guaranteed. For perspective, one college-football analysis found 95.1% success on field goals attempted inside the 5-yard line across its study sample.


The other assumptions are illustrative, not verified league-wide rates for this exact play.


Probability of scoring the winning points on this possession

Kick on third down

98.00%​

Run, then kick

97.62%​


Running calculation

\[50\%+(44\%\times98\%)+(5\%\times90\%)\]
\[=97.62\%\]
The kick has a 0.38-percentage-point advantage, or about four additional wins per 1,000 comparable possessions in this simplified model.

How​

A 10-yard holding penalty can move the kick from approximately 19 yards to 29 yards. A 5-yard false start moves it to 24 yards. Both remain manageable, but they reduce the advantage of being at the 2-yard line.

One important nuance: a false start or other pre-snap penalty can also happen when lining up to kick. However, on third down the team generally still has the opportunity to attempt the kick after enforcement. That makes the third-down kick especially attractive.

My​

Under the assumptions above, kicking on third down is mathematically preferable, but only marginally.

I would choose the kick for three reasons:

  1. An above-average kicker should be highly reliable from 19 yards.
  2. Running introduces additional turnover and field-position risks.
  3. Kicking on third down preserves fourth down if a mishandled snap can be recovered without losing possession.
The result is sensitive to the assumptions. If the offense has a 60% chance of scoring a touchdown and very little turnover risk, running could become the better option. Conversely, a team with a 40% touchdown probability should be even more inclined to kick.

Bottom line: For a typical FBS team with an above-average kicker, already having stopped the opponent in overtime, I would send out the field goal unit on third down. The available evidence doesn't establish a definitive universal answer, but a realistic model that accounts for penalties and turnovers gives the kick a slight advantage.
 
AI Concludes that you typically have a BETTER chance of winning by kicking than running another play by a small total of 0.38% (but depends on the accuracy of the kicker as well) but results in the times you don't convert being reduced by about 16% (i.e. don't convert 2.38% of the time you run then kick, don't convert 2% of the time you kick early):

Conclusion: "In college football overtime, if the opponent has already been stopped and any field goal wins, I would strongly favor kicking on third down from the 2-yard line."

Mathematical Analysis:
With an above-average college kicker, I estimate that kicking immediately has roughly a 97–98% chance of winning, compared with approximately 96–98% for running another play and then kicking if necessary.

The important distinction is that another offensive play introduces risks that don't exist if you kick immediately: offensive holding, false starts, a bad exchange, a fumble, or a tackle for loss. A penalty doesn't necessarily lose the game, but it can turn a 19-yard field goal into a 29-yard or longer attempt.

These are modeled estimates rather than measured probabilities for this exact situation. Let's incorporate those risks explicitly.

A​

Assume the following for an above-average FBS kicker and a reasonably effective short-yardage offense.

AssumptionProbability
Make a centered 19-yard FG98%
Score a TD on the run50%
Turnover on the run1%
Penalty or significant loss that worsens the kick5%
Other unsuccessful run, leaving an easy FG44%
Make FG after penalty/significant loss90%
The 98% kicking estimate is plausible for a strong college kicker at this distance, although not guaranteed. For perspective, one college-football analysis found 95.1% success on field goals attempted inside the 5-yard line across its study sample.


The other assumptions are illustrative, not verified league-wide rates for this exact play.


Probability of scoring the winning points on this possession

Kick on third down

98.00%​

Run, then kick

97.62%​


Running calculation

\[50\%+(44\%\times98\%)+(5\%\times90\%)\]
\[=97.62\%\]
The kick has a 0.38-percentage-point advantage, or about four additional wins per 1,000 comparable possessions in this simplified model.

How​

A 10-yard holding penalty can move the kick from approximately 19 yards to 29 yards. A 5-yard false start moves it to 24 yards. Both remain manageable, but they reduce the advantage of being at the 2-yard line.

One important nuance: a false start or other pre-snap penalty can also happen when lining up to kick. However, on third down the team generally still has the opportunity to attempt the kick after enforcement. That makes the third-down kick especially attractive.

My​

Under the assumptions above, kicking on third down is mathematically preferable, but only marginally.

I would choose the kick for three reasons:

  1. An above-average kicker should be highly reliable from 19 yards.
  2. Running introduces additional turnover and field-position risks.
  3. Kicking on third down preserves fourth down if a mishandled snap can be recovered without losing possession.
The result is sensitive to the assumptions. If the offense has a 60% chance of scoring a touchdown and very little turnover risk, running could become the better option. Conversely, a team with a 40% touchdown probability should be even more inclined to kick.

Bottom line: For a typical FBS team with an above-average kicker, already having stopped the opponent in overtime, I would send out the field goal unit on third down. The available evidence doesn't establish a definitive universal answer, but a realistic model that accounts for penalties and turnovers gives the kick a slight advantage.
In the presser Sawvel was asked and he said when Tote ran on first down he saw the ball move in his arms when he was hit so he saved the team from themselves
 
In the presser Sawvel was asked and he said when Tote ran on first down he saw the ball move in his arms when he was hit so he saved the team from themselves
I saw that. Seems Sawvel’s decision was made on a subjective belief watching the game. I just wanted to point out that objective math probabilities appear to support his decision as well (although doubt that was on his mind).

If I ran a college football team - I’d personally probably rely heavily on mathematical probability models.
 
Then you are choosing the greater chance of losing the game. The stats are pretty clear on that.

I'm not sure what else I can say. To each their own, I guess.
LOL, you are using a false statement to justify your opinion
AI Concludes that you typically have a BETTER chance of winning by kicking than running another play by a small total of 0.38% (but depends on the accuracy of the kicker as well) but results in the times you don't convert being reduced by about 16% (i.e. don't convert 2.38% of the time you run then kick, don't convert 2% of the time you kick early):

Conclusion: "In college football overtime, if the opponent has already been stopped and any field goal wins, I would strongly favor kicking on third down from the 2-yard line."

Mathematical Analysis:
With an above-average college kicker, I estimate that kicking immediately has roughly a 97–98% chance of winning, compared with approximately 96–98% for running another play and then kicking if necessary.

The important distinction is that another offensive play introduces risks that don't exist if you kick immediately: offensive holding, false starts, a bad exchange, a fumble, or a tackle for loss. A penalty doesn't necessarily lose the game, but it can turn a 19-yard field goal into a 29-yard or longer attempt.

These are modeled estimates rather than measured probabilities for this exact situation. Let's incorporate those risks explicitly.

A​

Assume the following for an above-average FBS kicker and a reasonably effective short-yardage offense.

AssumptionProbability
Make a centered 19-yard FG98%
Score a TD on the run50%
Turnover on the run1%
Penalty or significant loss that worsens the kick5%
Other unsuccessful run, leaving an easy FG44%
Make FG after penalty/significant loss90%
The 98% kicking estimate is plausible for a strong college kicker at this distance, although not guaranteed. For perspective, one college-football analysis found 95.1% success on field goals attempted inside the 5-yard line across its study sample.


The other assumptions are illustrative, not verified league-wide rates for this exact play.


Probability of scoring the winning points on this possession

Kick on third down

98.00%​

Run, then kick

97.62%​


Running calculation

\[50\%+(44\%\times98\%)+(5\%\times90\%)\]
\[=97.62\%\]
The kick has a 0.38-percentage-point advantage, or about four additional wins per 1,000 comparable possessions in this simplified model.

How​

A 10-yard holding penalty can move the kick from approximately 19 yards to 29 yards. A 5-yard false start moves it to 24 yards. Both remain manageable, but they reduce the advantage of being at the 2-yard line.

One important nuance: a false start or other pre-snap penalty can also happen when lining up to kick. However, on third down the team generally still has the opportunity to attempt the kick after enforcement. That makes the third-down kick especially attractive.

My​

Under the assumptions above, kicking on third down is mathematically preferable, but only marginally.

I would choose the kick for three reasons:

  1. An above-average kicker should be highly reliable from 19 yards.
  2. Running introduces additional turnover and field-position risks.
  3. Kicking on third down preserves fourth down if a mishandled snap can be recovered without losing possession.
The result is sensitive to the assumptions. If the offense has a 60% chance of scoring a touchdown and very little turnover risk, running could become the better option. Conversely, a team with a 40% touchdown probability should be even more inclined to kick.

Bottom line: For a typical FBS team with an above-average kicker, already having stopped the opponent in overtime, I would send out the field goal unit on third down. The available evidence doesn't establish a definitive universal answer, but a realistic model that accounts for penalties and turnovers gives the kick a slight advantage.
Your analysis is flawed. We had two downs to try and score from the 1 yard line. We spent 2nd down centering the ball. The decision did not start with the 3rd down, it was after 1st down.
 

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