I know what you mean but it's not Laramie that I hate. It's Cheyenne I can't stand and I'm extremely loyal to all things WYOMING!!!!!!
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Study - CFB team value
- Thread starter Poke in New England
- Start date
I know what you mean but it's not Laramie that I hate. It's Cheyenne I can't stand and I'm extremely loyal to all things WYOMING!!!!!!
I'm not old enough to know much about the 70s, 80s, and early 90s of college football. So, I am probably missing some historical context.
That being said, I don't really think these athletes were ever truly "college students".
Where, exactly, do you think I'm wrong? I'm still waiting for the dialogue.
What's with all the hate for towns in Wyoming? There's already enough hate coming from the assholes in cacarado, utah, idaho and elsewhere, without us hating ourselves. Wyoming towns aren't like the plastic towns in cacarado, and I like it that way. Be proud. Relish the tacky bars and cafes. They give Wyoming the character that's been lost in other states. Brown and Gold all the way!!
Looking directly at the preferences that have been revealed by the transfer portal decisions we have seen is a third rail topic around here. For some reason people can't hold the fact that they love Wyoming in one hand and also observe the fact that it's not seen as a great place to spend your college years for a large percentage of college athletes. This is a classic gut feel topic...you are never going to convince somebody that Laramie (or Wyoming) is something that they are not temperamentally interested in.
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
The idea that location from a social life/metropolis/night life, etc. is a big influence on recruits is mostly ridiculous. Could it influence a decision? Maybe slightly but certainly not a big one.
Location from a perspective of playing close to home? Sure. That is probably a big one. Laramie is in a location that is mostly devoid of recruits for hundreds of miles. That's the location limitation. Take every characteristic of Laramie and place it within 200-300 miles of recruiting hotbeds, and all the recruits don't like Laramie nonsense is out the window. We're bordered by the SD, Nebraska, Montana, Idaho, Utah, and CO. Not exactly fertile recruiting grounds much less in our home state.
Location from a perspective of playing close to home? Sure. That is probably a big one. Laramie is in a location that is mostly devoid of recruits for hundreds of miles. That's the location limitation. Take every characteristic of Laramie and place it within 200-300 miles of recruiting hotbeds, and all the recruits don't like Laramie nonsense is out the window. We're bordered by the SD, Nebraska, Montana, Idaho, Utah, and CO. Not exactly fertile recruiting grounds much less in our home state.
Forget the why...just observe the choices that are being made. Recruits and transfer players with options are not choosing Laramie over similar options. Set aside why that is...it certainly is happening. If a player can leave, they pretty much do. Now...there are more kids that want to play sports in college than there are roster spots so I don't think we are in danger of not fielding a team any time soon.
None of this comes down to just one thing. There are a host of factors that go into the decisions that recruits are making. The best you can do is assess the flow of talent as time goes by and see what can be observed. Good observable talent never came to Laramie before the transfer restrictions were lifted...and now even that talent that manifests here is walking out. This is happening at every school at our level. Over time we will (and are already seeing) see some of those schools having more success than others even as raw roster turnover is about the same...That will be because those schools, somehow, will be preferable to recruits and transfers by a slight amount than the schools that don't do as well. It won't be a "big influence". These decisions are being made on the margins....and they can be razor thin and still create big differences in outcomes.
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
Every g5 team sans bsu has troubles getting recruits. bsu has coaches, budget, and history of excellence. Guaranteed those 3 are FAR bigger reasons that recruits choose bsu over WYO as opposed to the Boise Metro vs Laramie.
I'm studiously avoiding comparison to programs like BSU....Obviously they are recruiting a different class than Wyoming is.
Getting wins starts and ends with having better players than the other guy. Wyoming, for the last 20+ years has been at a talent deficit with the top of the conference. Going forward in the new conference configuration, there will be a re-shuffling. Some group of teams will have more success than the rest. Those will be the schools where the best players will want to be, compared to the other teams in that group. I could see UNLV becoming the BSU of the new MWC (in terms of consistent dominance) pretty easily. Wyoming has not been out-talented by the rest of that group really...so we'll see where it goes.
laxwyo
Well-known member
I think they might need a few guys to go to make roster limit.
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
Unlv is interesting. Located in the center of the entertainment industry. The epitome of venue to allow advancement of self promotion, marketing, night life, and every other thing that recruits desire and despise about Laramie.
You'd almost think that if all those things mattered, they'd dominate. Instead, like all G5, it's dependent on investment and coaching.
It's time to put the "recruits don't like little ole Laramie" excuse to bed. We don't recruit at a high level because we haven't built the right mix of investment and coaches. Now, portal expands recruiting opportunities where position situation and coaches are even more important for recruits af our level (not big nil deals).
rocket city poke
Well-known member
I don't agree with all the commentary on how "remote" Laramie is and that is a disadvantage. Laramie is 2.5 hours from the biggest city between Chicago and Los Angeles. Before Phil Knight came along Eugene had much the same reputation as Laramie (remote college town stuck in a conference where it couldn't compete with Washington, UCLA, USC). With the NIL, the schools that are benefitting / improving have the most loyal fan bases and high dollar NIL budgets. You are seeing it at BYU particularly, but Baylor, Texas Tech, Houston, Memphis, Iowa State are all doing better in this era. (yes Brett Yormark had something to do with this). SOme of those programs suffer from many of these same problems as UW (see Texas Tech).
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If you're not willing to take a critical look at the city, culture, and environment surrounding a university, I honestly don’t know what to tell you. Pretending like it doesn’t, just because it’s your school or your town, is version a of gold-tinted glasses that would make Coach Prime jealous.
Being 2.5 hours away from the biggest city between Chicago and LA isn’t the recruiting pitch you think it is. I would love to be wrong, but I've heard, witnessed, and experienced this firsthand.
Anywhoo, the next round of portals opens later this week, and with the debacle that happened in Tennessee, it'll be interesting.
Go Pokes
Being 2.5 hours away from the biggest city between Chicago and LA isn’t the recruiting pitch you think it is. I would love to be wrong, but I've heard, witnessed, and experienced this firsthand.
Anywhoo, the next round of portals opens later this week, and with the debacle that happened in Tennessee, it'll be interesting.
Go Pokes
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
The impact of perceived reservations about Laramie are overblown.
If I get time, I'll go find several articles that have looked at recruit decisions. At our level, coaches are #1 by far then position situation/program culture then academic programs. Distance to family is in there somewhere.
Nightlife, town, girls, etc. may play a role slightly. If you win the aforementioned categories, the latter won't matter.
Of course it's harder to recruit to Laramie, for all the reasons PAPoke has talked about. There are certainly strategies to overcome that handicap, used by us and other schools in a similar boat, and every so often you see the success of those strategies. But that's spotty. The whole issue would have been overcome if UW had at some point turned into a premier football or basketball school. I mean, have you ever been to South Bend? Good God.
But we never got there, not even close.
Happily, that no longer matters. Now, if you want good players to come to your school, all it takes is money to pay them. Laramie's disadvantages become completely irrelevant when you give a kid a good good chunk of change.
I have no idea about what our NIL program looks like or how much cash it can distribute. I also don't know where/if we'll get the money to disburse under a profit-sharing program. I finally don't know what it would take every year to assemble a competitive roster. (We could be in the Sweet Sixteen every year with a billionaire who wanted it to happen...I'm looking at you, St. John's.)
I do know that is the college sports world now: decide who you want to compete with and then figure out the market for the players you need to do that. If we can't or won't, there's nothing wrong with that. We just will need to lower our expectations.
But we never got there, not even close.
Happily, that no longer matters. Now, if you want good players to come to your school, all it takes is money to pay them. Laramie's disadvantages become completely irrelevant when you give a kid a good good chunk of change.
I have no idea about what our NIL program looks like or how much cash it can distribute. I also don't know where/if we'll get the money to disburse under a profit-sharing program. I finally don't know what it would take every year to assemble a competitive roster. (We could be in the Sweet Sixteen every year with a billionaire who wanted it to happen...I'm looking at you, St. John's.)
I do know that is the college sports world now: decide who you want to compete with and then figure out the market for the players you need to do that. If we can't or won't, there's nothing wrong with that. We just will need to lower our expectations.
rocket city poke
Well-known member
I get the culture of Laramie issue (and have agreed that UW fits better in the Big Sky) but i just disagree that there isnt a recruiting base. Again Denver is 2 hours away.
I would add that coaching hires are more important than ever. A bad hire and you sink the NIL contributions, recruiting and conference affiliation quickly. Frankly Bohls highly compensated mediocrity established an acceptable baseline that most other programs wouldnt have embraced. And the follow up hire is struggling to meet even that level.
PorkerPoke
Well-known member
On one hand the Bohl tenure produced the most consistent results Wyoming football has enjoyed as a member of the MWC. On the other hand, his refusal to put a seriously good offense on the field relegated the program to near 50-50 ho hum status.
Basketball has floundered in MWC play ever since 2003 with only a spark here and there (3 winning seasons in conference play the last 22 years). Who gives a flying flip about winning 20+ games against Johnson and Wales only winning 4-6 conference games and failing to hold home court pretty much defines most basketball seasons the past 22 years.
The level of mediocrity is equivalent to being happy with a D on the report card. Nothing has really been done to improve the level of competitiveness in the conference in over 20 years. A faint ray of hope here and there once or twice per decade is about all there has been.
In retrospect it’s been tough to get excited about the year after year struggles while watching Utah State win substantially more MWC games in both football and basketball than Wyoming has since 2013. Wyoming manages to stay competitive as one of the better teams in the middle to bottom half of the MWC year after year.
Can’t say I see an imminent big leap in the standings anytime soon. It’s about the missing expectation of winning when it doesn’t happen.
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
What's an example of a few mediocre to bad teams in g6 that's easy to recruit to?
Flip side. Do you think Burman, PBJ, and crew could sustain bsu success if they took over bsu (all bsu people removed and replaced with WYO people) for a 10 year span?
Flip side. Do you think Burman, PBJ, and crew could sustain bsu success if they took over bsu (all bsu people removed and replaced with WYO people) for a 10 year span?
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You are very adept at arguing against the point you want to argue against while avoiding to topic you don't want to talk about.
The effect on recruiting and talent retention of UW's position on a theoretical list that captures where young people want to spend their college years either exists or it doesn't. If you are saying it doesn't matter or doesn't exist....be explicit about that and I'll happily engage with you about other topics where you actually make some sense. I assume that is not your position since that is somewhat ludicrous but feel free to surprise me.
Now.....assuming that effect exists and goes in the direction that we all think it does. What does that mean? You brought up Urban Meyer and the "what-if" world where he chose to come to UW over Utah back in '03. The compensation was roughly similar...Glenn even made slightly more at that time according to the small bit of searching I did. You made the statement that maybe if we had tripled that number then we would have had a chance at landing him and that he was very selective....both statements that are probably true. Why would it take triple the money (that might be hyperbolic but I'm just using your example) to get a guy to come to Laramie to coach football over Utah at the time? Why would a "selective" coach not choose to come to Laramie? I assume the answers to these questions are real....why are these effects on what it would take to get coaches here real and impactful but not for athletes?
