Wyo @ South Dakota part 2

[fromolwyoming]

So Shyatt, who has had to build up from a team that had 4-5 defections (all had in game experience) his very first year and has had to build depth since coming here, said himself that the team "doesn't have its own identity yet" and is building towards that, should be held to the same standard as a guy who had been here 5 years and claimed this was the deepest and best Wyoming team since being here? Do you even think these things through?

 

[ProudWYOAlum]

It's hard to beat a team the second time around, especially when it's on the road. I like Shyatt scheduling this series before conference play.

We have a big one next Sunday against DU!

 

[BeaverPoke]

Right so DC gets 5 years and fails, but Shyatt after 2 is WAY BEHIND THE CURVE?
Haha okay, whatever.

 

[WYCowboy]

The refs were a goddamn joke.
I almost had a stroke during this game.

That's life on the road. Now imagine having to deal with that while going up against Alex Kirk, Kendall Williams, and 18,000 fans, because that's what it takes to win in the MWC. We have a long way to go.

As long as Shyatt keeps scheduling these "power house" teams like SD, then the Pokes may make 20 wins and get into the NIT again. This team is no where close to the caliber of the top teams in the MWC. From looking at the roster, this is entirely his team and his recruits. Welcome to mediocrity in basketball for another couple years. No one has been recruited to replace Nance, JR. when he leaves.

Man shut up and go cry somewhere else.
Aren't you the one that thinks DC got screwed and we should fire Shyatt? Yeah, how drunk are you?

No kidding. Shut up. This whole "mediocrity" term is getting thrown around way too much. The basketball team is on the rise and worlds better than 4years ago. No one said rebuilding was going to quick or easy. Shyatt is a great coach and IS turning our program around.

To start with, fuck you! Next, I never said Shyatt should be fired. I said that all the athletic departments should be held to the same standard. Win conference championships and build on the future. If the standard is" competing for conference championships," then Shyatt is way behind the curve.

To begin with, everybody on this board is entitled to their own opinion, but telling people FU, calling others names, or personally attacking others is not going to be allowed. If it continues, I'll end it.

 

[TheRealUW]

Shyatt is a good X's and O's coach and a tremendous coach when it comes to getting every ounce of potential out of his players and teams. However, I have felt that his recruiting classes have left something to be desired. His most recent recruiting class was better and has me feeling slightly more positive about the future, but I'm still not convinced we are landing the caliber of players to win a MWC championship.

I feel as if Shyatt is still recruiting players similar to when he was at Wyoming the first time. The problem is that the top end of the MWC has gotten significantly better since that point. The MWC champ is typically a top 25 team and at least a threat to make noise in the NCAA tournament. That wasn't a reality on a yearly basis when Shyatt was here in the late 1990's. Take a look at the level of talent that UNLV, San Diego State, and New Mexico are landing and it makes me very pessimistic that we will be competing with them anytime in the near future.

So, how do we fix this? Is it plausible to expect any basketball coach at Wyoming to be able to land multiple 4 and 5 star recruits every year? Well, yes and no. I find it highly unlikely that Wyoming is going to be able to get these guys right out of high school. However, I do think it is plausible to get them as transfer students or coming out of JUCO. If I'm the head basketball coach at UW, I would be looking to land an overlooked transfer and JUCO every single season and would hit the high school ranks to bring in those needed role players and "glue guys". Just my thoughts though.

 

[kdwrightuwyo]

He has been recruiting to build and develop guys to play his game...not the flashy guys who play street ball. His guys are developing into outstanding players. Just look at Grabau. He's a smart player who is now leading the nation in 3pt shooting percentage. Look at Cooke who is now in his third or fourth year of organized ball. He's a good threat now.

 

[TheRealUW]

He has been recruiting to build and develop guys to play his game...not the flashy guys who play street ball. His guys are developing into outstanding players. Just look at Grabau. He's a smart player who is now leading the nation in 3pt shooting percentage. Look at Cooke who is now in his third or fourth year of organized ball. He's a good threat now.

There is no doubt that both Grabau and Cooke are great examples of Shyatt's ability to get his players to reach their maximum potential. I've been very happy with the improvement I've seen players make on a yearly basis since Shyatt arrived. My concern is that the ceiling of these players is not high enough to compete for a MWC championship. Even with maximum development, I don't see a Kendall Williams, Xavier Thames, Roscoe Smith, or Khem Birch on our team. That's the type of talent it's going to take to win a MWC in the current climate.

I'm not saying the guys on our team are bad basketball players. However, I feel most of these guys would be best suited as role players on a MWC championship squad. Think about it...do you think any of our guys would have nearly as big of a role were they playing for Boise State, New Mexico, or San Diego State this year? We need a couple of players who are at the next level talent-wise to carry the program if we want to make the jump to a serious MWC contender. Not all highly talented basketball players are "flashy guys who play street ball", by the way.

 

[kdwrightuwyo]

He has been recruiting to build and develop guys to play his game...not the flashy guys who play street ball. His guys are developing into outstanding players. Just look at Grabau. He's a smart player who is now leading the nation in 3pt shooting percentage. Look at Cooke who is now in his third or fourth year of organized ball. He's a good threat now.

There is no doubt that both Grabau and Cooke are great examples of Shyatt's ability to get his players to reach their maximum potential. I've been very happy with the improvement I've seen players make on a yearly basis since Shyatt arrived. My concern is that the ceiling of these players is not high enough to compete for a MWC championship. Even with maximum development, I don't see a Kendall Williams, Xavier Thames, Roscoe Smith, or Khem Birch on our team. That's the type of talent it's going to take to win a MWC in the current climate.

I'm not saying the guys on our team are bad basketball players. However, I feel most of these guys would be best suited as role players on a MWC championship squad. Think about it...do you think any of our guys would have nearly as big of a role were they playing for Boise State, New Mexico, or San Diego State this year? We need a couple of players who are at the next level talent-wise to carry the program if we want to make the jump to a serious MWC contender. Not all highly talented basketball players are "flashy guys who play street ball", by the way.

Nance would play for the other teams. I think our guys will surprise everyone come conference play. Our style will frustrate the other teams as we force them to play our game. Just look at how we did AWAY against CU and Ohio. I know that all the highly talented players aren't "flashy guys who play street ball", but that's UNLV and the guys we had recruited under McCain and Schroyer tried to get it done with.

 

[BeaverPoke]

Shyatt's recruits have been getting better and better.
As someone else noted, Joakim Noah didn't do much his freshman year, and is now obviously a premier center in the NBA.
Our players are just getting better and better.
Only Sobey and Granberry graduate this season.
The Pokes have a good chance to do some damage this season in the MWC.
Then next season, Nance, Hankerson, Cooke, and Grabau will all be seniors.
Adams, and Haldorson will be juniors.
McManamen and Washington will be sophomores.

This season the Pokes have a decent chance at a MWC title, more likely in the Tourney, but next season I would say Wyo has a real good chance at a MWC title, regular and tourney.

 

[NowherePoke]

Shyatt's recruits have been getting better and better.
As someone else noted, Joakim Noah didn't do much his freshman year, and is now obviously a premier center in the NBA.
Our players are just getting better and better.
Only Sobey and Granberry graduate this season.
The Pokes have a good chance to do some damage this season in the MWC.
Then next season, Nance, Hankerson, Cooke, and Grabau will all be seniors.
Adams, and Haldorson will be juniors.
McManamen and Washington will be sophomores.

This season the Pokes have a decent chance at a MWC title, more likely in the Tourney, but next season I would say Wyo has a real good chance at a MWC title, regular and tourney.

I like it when other posters take my suggestion to heart.

Doesn't everything feel better when we pretend the Rapid City debacle never happened?

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Shyatt's recruits have been getting better and better.
As someone else noted, Joakim Noah didn't do much his freshman year, and is now obviously a premier center in the NBA.
Our players are just getting better and better.
Only Sobey and Granberry graduate this season.
The Pokes have a good chance to do some damage this season in the MWC.
Then next season, Nance, Hankerson, Cooke, and Grabau will all be seniors.
Adams, and Haldorson will be juniors.
McManamen and Washington will be sophomores.

This season the Pokes have a decent chance at a MWC title, more likely in the Tourney, but next season I would say Wyo has a real good chance at a MWC title, regular and tourney.

I like it when other posters take my suggestion to heart.

Doesn't everything feel better when we pretend the Rapid City debacle never happened?

About as good as a being a cynical negative ass

 

[TheRealUW]

Shyatt's recruits have been getting better and better.
As someone else noted, Joakim Noah didn't do much his freshman year, and is now obviously a premier center in the NBA.
Our players are just getting better and better.
Only Sobey and Granberry graduate this season.
The Pokes have a good chance to do some damage this season in the MWC.
Then next season, Nance, Hankerson, Cooke, and Grabau will all be seniors.
Adams, and Haldorson will be juniors.
McManamen and Washington will be sophomores.

This season the Pokes have a decent chance at a MWC title, more likely in the Tourney, but next season I would say Wyo has a real good chance at a MWC title, regular and tourney.

I feel like you are missing my point. Again, I'm in complete agreement that we've seen improvement from the majority of players since Shyatt's arrival. As I've stated several times, I believe player development is one of Shyatt's greatest strengths. I'm just not convinced that even with reaching their maximum potential that his recruits have the level of talent to actually win a MWC championship. Knocking off a couple of the big boys or "giving them a scare" every year is much different from beating them on a consistent basis, which is what it is going to take to win a MWC championship. The top end of the MWC is quite a bit better than the middle of the pack right now, and it's going to take a significant improvement for a team in the middle of the pack to make the transition to a serious conference contender.

As far as Joakim Noah is concerned, the guy was a top 100 recruit coming out of high school. There is a big difference between a player like Noah and Cooke (or even Nance). All three of those players made major improvements from year to year, but Noah's ceiling was much higher than either Cooke's or Nance's. At this same point in his basketball career, Noah had already turned down being a lottery pick in the NBA draft to return to Florida to be one of the most dominating college basketball players in the entire country. While the MWC may not have a Joakim Noah, it's top teams are filled with elite talent. We have good to fair talent. We need elite talent to make that jump to MWC contender.

Let's compare 2013 recruiting classes. Wyoming signed Trey Washington, Keonta Vernon, and Alan Herndon.

San Diego State signed Dakarai Allen who was a 4 star recruit and offered by UCLA amongst multiple other offers. As a true freshman on a very talented MWC contender, he is already averaging over 10 minutes per game.

New Mexico signed Cullen Neal, an ESPN top 100 recruit, who as a true freshman is fourth on the team in scoring despite backing up the reigning MWC player of the year.

UNLV signed Kendall Smith, a ESPN top 100 recruit with offers from many teams including UConn, who is averaging 25 minutes per game as a true freshman and shooting over 50% from the field, including 50% exactly from beyond the arc.

Now, while I think it's perfectly reasonable to believe that Washington, Vernon, and Herndon will develop into good basketball player's under Shyatt, I find it very hard to expect them to ever reach the level of the players mentioned above. That's where the problem is. While Shyatt has brought in good recruits, the top of the MWC has continualy brought in elite recruits. I think many of you underestimate how good the upper end of the MWC is and the level of players it's going to take to be a contender in this conference. Will Nance, Cooke, Grabau, Adams, etc be better next year? Yeah, probably so...but so will the returners on New Mexico, San Diego State, and UNLV.

 

[stymeman]

dude it's not our fault bigger teams don't want to come to Laramie, we can't schedule anyone that wants to come to the high tundra in Dec. Jan....we'll be fine as long as we progress in the Conf season, because that truly what matters, these early games just build confidence etc.
As for Sat's game, man did those refs have it out for us or what, listened to most of the 2nd half and it should not have even went into OT, but I'm glad we got this one b4 finals, DU isn't what they used to be, but it's always a battle. Everyone please try to show up for the SMU game on the 20th, it's as big as it gets for Laramie, and get to see a hall of fame coach in Larry Brown. Hope our players have a good week with finals(a week I don't miss at all)...GOOD WIN

 

[JimmyDimes]

Shyatt's recruits have been getting better and better.
As someone else noted, Joakim Noah didn't do much his freshman year, and is now obviously a premier center in the NBA.
Our players are just getting better and better.
Only Sobey and Granberry graduate this season.
The Pokes have a good chance to do some damage this season in the MWC.
Then next season, Nance, Hankerson, Cooke, and Grabau will all be seniors.
Adams, and Haldorson will be juniors.
McManamen and Washington will be sophomores.

This season the Pokes have a decent chance at a MWC title, more likely in the Tourney, but next season I would say Wyo has a real good chance at a MWC title, regular and tourney.

I feel like you are missing my point. Again, I'm in complete agreement that we've seen improvement from the majority of players since Shyatt's arrival. As I've stated several times, I believe player development is one of Shyatt's greatest strengths. I'm just not convinced that even with reaching their maximum potential that his recruits have the level of talent to actually win a MWC championship. Knocking off a couple of the big boys or "giving them a scare" every year is much different from beating them on a consistent basis, which is what it is going to take to win a MWC championship. The top end of the MWC is quite a bit better than the middle of the pack right now, and it's going to take a significant improvement for a team in the middle of the pack to make the transition to a serious conference contender.

As far as Joakim Noah is concerned, the guy was a top 100 recruit coming out of high school. There is a big difference between a player like Noah and Cooke (or even Nance). All three of those players made major improvements from year to year, but Noah's ceiling was much higher than either Cooke's or Nance's. At this same point in his basketball career, Noah had already turned down being a lottery pick in the NBA draft to return to Florida to be one of the most dominating college basketball players in the entire country. While the MWC may not have a Joakim Noah, it's top teams are filled with elite talent. We have good to fair talent. We need elite talent to make that jump to MWC contender.

Let's compare 2013 recruiting classes. Wyoming signed Trey Washington, Keonta Vernon, and Alan Herndon.

San Diego State signed Dakarai Allen who was a 4 star recruit and offered by UCLA amongst multiple other offers. As a true freshman on a very talented MWC contender, he is already averaging over 10 minutes per game.

New Mexico signed Cullen Neal, an ESPN top 100 recruit, who as a true freshman is fourth on the team in scoring despite backing up the reigning MWC player of the year.

UNLV signed Kendall Smith, a ESPN top 100 recruit with offers from many teams including UConn, who is averaging 25 minutes per game as a true freshman and shooting over 50% from the field, including 50% exactly from beyond the arc.

Now, while I think it's perfectly reasonable to believe that Washington, Vernon, and Herndon will develop into good basketball player's under Shyatt, I find it very hard to expect them to ever reach the level of the players mentioned above. That's where the problem is. While Shyatt has brought in good recruits, the top of the MWC has continualy brought in elite recruits. I think many of you underestimate how good the upper end of the MWC is and the level of players it's going to take to be a contender in this conference. Will Nance, Cooke, Grabau, Adams, etc be better next year? Yeah, probably so...but so will the returners on New Mexico, San Diego State, and UNLV.

It is more about coaching than talent. And rankings mean little unless you are a top of the line recruit. It is mostly speculation and subjectivity. Shyatt is building something hear and it takes time. There will be bumps in the road and they will be things to get excited about. I remember SDSU barely scoring 10 point in a half against us last year. UNLV lost to Dixie State with all their talent. They have a shitty coach and all the talent in the world isn't going to fix that. Wyoming is improving and the latest recruiting class is a testament to that.

Peace,.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

I think basketball is different than football. Football is basically all about talent and all about recruiting. Upsets happen far less frequently on a football field than they do on a basketball court. You can make up for lack of talent in basketball by playing smart, disciplined, and shooting lights out.

I very highly doubt Butler when they played Duke in the national championship game had many, if any, 4 star recruits on their roster.

 

[TheRealUW]

I very highly doubt Butler when they played Duke in the national championship game had many, if any, 4 star recruits on their roster.

Matt Howard was a top 100 recruit. He had offers from Indiana, Purdue, and Xavier amongst others coming out of high school. Gordon Hayward and Willie Veasley held offers from programs in the Big 10 and Big East, respectively.

I get your point, though. Talent isn't everything. However, when the talent gap between the top of the MWC and the mid-tier teams is as significant as it is, I don't think its something that can be overcome by coaching alone. That talent gap needs to be closed somewhat in order for us to have a legitimate chance at a MWC crown. That only happens one of two ways: the top tier teams start signing less talented players or we start signing more talented players. Since UW only has control over the latter, I would suggest that we concentrate our efforts there.

 

[TSpoke]

Getting better recruits doesn't happen overnight. How long did it take Fisher at SDSU to get these recruits or NM to get the recruits they get now. HTe key is to every year recruit better players than the year before. I would say looking at this last signing class we have the best group we have ever had. So we are headed in the right direction.

 

[stymeman]

that's why i so much better like the NCAA tourney, anything can and does happen year in year out, love parity

 

[wyokoke]

The refs were a goddamn joke.
I almost had a stroke during this game.

That's life on the road. Now imagine having to deal with that while going up against Alex Kirk, Kendall Williams, and 18,000 fans, because that's what it takes to win in the MWC. We have a long way to go.

As long as Shyatt keeps scheduling these "power house" teams like SD, then the Pokes may make 20 wins and get into the NIT again. This team is no where close to the caliber of the top teams in the MWC. From looking at the roster, this is entirely his team and his recruits. Welcome to mediocrity in basketball for another couple years. No one has been recruited to replace Nance, JR. when he leaves.

Man shut up and go cry somewhere else.
Aren't you the one that thinks DC got screwed and we should fire Shyatt? Yeah, how drunk are you?

No kidding. Shut up. This whole "mediocrity" term is getting thrown around way too much. The basketball team is on the rise and worlds better than 4years ago. No one said rebuilding was going to quick or easy. Shyatt is a great coach and IS turning our program around.

To start with, fuck you! Next, I never said Shyatt should be fired. I said that all the athletic departments should be held to the same standard. Win conference championships and build on the future. If the standard is" competing for conference championships," then Shyatt is way behind the curve.

He's also been here for not even half of how long we had Dave

 

[ProudWYOAlum]

I really like the most recent class Shyatt has put together. We aren't ever going to get top 100 recruits to come to Laramie... Don't need to.

Marcus Bailey, Josh Davis, Fennis Dembo, Jay straight, Brandon Ewing.... None of them would have been higher than 3 stars. Who cares.

Shyatt is getting guys that he feels can compete at this level, buy into the system, play defense, and win basketball games. All those highly recruited and rated athletes from SDSU lost in Laramie to a bad Wyoming team.

College basketball is truly the sport where you can create something special with some talent, guys who buy in, and a great home court.