Why are public schools scared of vouchers?

[laxwyo]

It looks to me like the education cartel is scared of competition or democrats are scared of kids getting opposing views.

Wow, for a conservative to actually think and say this is the definition of a lack of self awareness. Not saying that Democrats don't have some issues with this, but Republicans are magnitudes worse today in regards to being afraid of opposing views in education.

Oh yeah, it's republicans protesting on campuses when someone with opposing views comes to speak? lol dude c'mon, your head is buried up your ass if you think Republicans are the ones who can't handle opposing viewpoints. Democrats and their allies are the censorship regime regarding everything. Democrats are no longer advocates of free speech. I think you believe you're an independent thinker but you're the definition of indoctrinated.

 

[laxwyo]

Wow, for a conservative to actually think and say this is the definition of a lack of self awareness. Not saying that Democrats don't have some issues with this, but Republicans are magnitudes worse today in regards to being afraid of opposing views in education.

Yeah, it's conservatives forcing men in women sports or drag queens reading to kids. You can point to the anti crt movement but for every Florida there are hundreds or thousands of forced crt policies.

Besides, wouldn't that be an argument for pro-vouchers? Again, I'm sorry you care more about unions and politics than student success. Of course, I'm sure you'll default to the liberal rallying cry "there might be racism!" :roll:

hey ragtime,

you can't handle opposing viewpoints if you won't allow books about blowjobs and anal sex into 1st grade libraries. westwyo has definitely referred to the florida law as the "don't say gay bill" because thats what puppets do.

 

[WestWYOPoke]

Wow, for a conservative to actually think and say this is the definition of a lack of self awareness. Not saying that Democrats don't have some issues with this, but Republicans are magnitudes worse today in regards to being afraid of opposing views in education.

Oh yeah, it's republicans protesting on campuses when someone with opposing views comes to speak?

So exercising your right to free speech/protest is a bad thing?

lol dude c'mon, your head is buried up your ass if you think Republicans are the ones who can't handle opposing viewpoints.

All the people yelling how education "indoctrinates our kids" are Republicans, not Democrats. Not to mention, last time I checked Republicans were the ones up in arms over differing points: gay marriage, body autonomy, banning books with contrary views. Hell, CRT is literally looking at things through other viewpoints.

Democrats and their allies are the censorship regime regarding everything.

Yes, how could we forget the Dems trying to cancel Kapernick/NFL, Bud Light, Disney, Target, etc. Can't believe i was so confused...

Democrats are no longer advocates of free speech.

Book bans?!

I think you believe you're an independent thinker but you're the definition of indoctrinated.

Boy, you sure told me

 

[WestWYOPoke]

Wow, for a conservative to actually think and say this is the definition of a lack of self awareness. Not saying that Democrats don't have some issues with this, but Republicans are magnitudes worse today in regards to being afraid of opposing views in education.

Yeah, it's conservatives forcing men in women sports or drag queens reading to kids.

No one is doing this, this is a conservative boogie man argument, just like "CRT is shaming you for being white", "all liberals want to take away all our guns", and "illegal immigrants are responsible for (insert problem here)"

You can point to the anti crt movement but for every Florida there are hundreds or thousands of forced crt policies.

I personally think there are some things that CRT does that are good and some that are too much, like many other things moderation is key

Besides, wouldn't that be an argument for pro-vouchers? Again, I'm sorry you care more about unions and politics than student success.

You're projecting your impressions of what you think every "liberal" thinks, I personally think there is too much politics in education and am not a fan of unions at all.

Of course, I'm sure you'll default to the liberal rallying cry "there might be racism!" :roll:

 

[laxwyo]

book bans? oh you mean, anal sex and blowjob books in elementary school? go watch some more MSNBC, you spout nothing but tired DNC talking points.

 

[WestWYOPoke]

book bans? oh you mean, anal the deed and blowjob books in elementary school? go watch some more MSNBC, you spout nothing but tired DNC talking points.

Don't watch MSNBC, don't watch Fox or CNN either. Get my news from a variety of sources.

1) I don't have a problem with graphic stuff being removed from children's sections or elementary schools.
2) The vast majority of stuff that is being petitioned to be removed isn't grossly graphic, it's books that have gay characters or talk about having 2 dads or 2 moms. Basically it isn't pornographic, it's "I think homosexuality is a sin, so bold shouldn't talk about it".
3) Ultimately, as long as point #1 is being followed, the onus is on the parents to be involved and aware of what their children are ingesting. Books should be the least of your concerns.
4) Within reason, I want my children to be aware of differing viewpoints, beliefs, etc. Ignorant people that only believe what they are told to believe are a huge problem in our world, I'm talking from all angles: conservative, liberal, religious, non-religious, etc. If we had more educated and tolerant people, things would go a lot smoother.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Yeah, it's conservatives forcing men in women sports or drag queens reading to kids. You can point to the anti crt movement but for every Florida there are hundreds or thousands of forced crt policies.

Besides, wouldn't that be an argument for pro-vouchers? Again, I'm sorry you care more about unions and politics than student success. Of course, I'm sure you'll default to the liberal rallying cry "there might be racism!" :roll:

hey ragtime,

you can't handle opposing viewpoints if you won't allow books about blowjobs and anal the deed into 1st grade libraries. westwyo has definitely referred to the florida law as the "don't say gay bill" because thats what puppets do.

It's sickening

 

[ragtimejoe1]

book bans? oh you mean, anal the deed and blowjob books in elementary school? go watch some more MSNBC, you spout nothing but tired DNC talking points.

Don't watch MSNBC, don't watch Fox or CNN either. Get my news from a variety of sources.

1) I don't have a problem with graphic stuff being removed from children's sections or elementary schools.
2) The vast majority of stuff that is being petitioned to be removed isn't grossly graphic, it's books that have gay characters or talk about having 2 dads or 2 moms. Basically it isn't adult tv, it's "I think the deed is a sin, so bold shouldn't talk about it".
3) Ultimately, as long as point #1 is being followed, the onus is on the parents to be involved and aware of what their children are ingesting. Books should be the least of your concerns.
4) Within reason, I want my children to be aware of differing viewpoints, beliefs, etc. Ignorant people that only believe what they are told to believe are a huge problem in our world, I'm talking from all angles: conservative, liberal, religious, non-religious, etc. If we had more educated and tolerant people, things would go a lot smoother.

The problem is what's allowed. 2 dads, moms, 1 mom, 1 mom 1 dad, gay, gender identity, or whatever in the hell the twisted left wants to discuss simply doesn't belong in schools especially for elementary. It is asinine to argue otherwise. Boys in girls sports is asinine. That's what is happening and if you vote Democrat, you support it no matter what the hell you say.

 

[WestWYOPoke]

Don't watch MSNBC, don't watch Fox or CNN either. Get my news from a variety of sources.

1) I don't have a problem with graphic stuff being removed from children's sections or elementary schools.
2) The vast majority of stuff that is being petitioned to be removed isn't grossly graphic, it's books that have gay characters or talk about having 2 dads or 2 moms. Basically it isn't adult tv, it's "I think the deed is a sin, so bold shouldn't talk about it".
3) Ultimately, as long as point #1 is being followed, the onus is on the parents to be involved and aware of what their children are ingesting. Books should be the least of your concerns.
4) Within reason, I want my children to be aware of differing viewpoints, beliefs, etc. Ignorant people that only believe what they are told to believe are a huge problem in our world, I'm talking from all angles: conservative, liberal, religious, non-religious, etc. If we had more educated and tolerant people, things would go a lot smoother.

The problem is what's allowed. 2 dads, moms, 1 mom, 1 mom 1 dad, gay, gender identity, or whatever in the hell the twisted left wants to discuss simply doesn't belong in schools especially for elementary.

Says who? Why not, none of those things is bad. Are there no kids in elementary school with 2 dads/moms, 1 mom, etc? Are they not allowed to feel "normal" just because they don't have a 1 mom/1 dad household. Some kids have questions about their gender identity at a young age, that's not a bad thing. Having books that discuss these things doesn't "make kids gay" or "warp their minds", it just shows that it's OK to be "different".

It is asinine to argue otherwise. Boys in girls sports is asinine.

This is such a boogie man for the right. Let me let you in on a secret: No one...NO ONE...is changing their gender in order to win at sports. Plus, who the fuck cares, my guess is it doesn't affect you or anyone you know, so why get your undies in a twist.

That's what is happening and if you vote Democrat, you support it no matter what the hell you say.

So based on this reasoning, if you vote Republican, you are supporting white supremacy, election denial, all book banning, etc. I don't believe all that and know that many people are far more nuanced than that, but that is the kind of one-sideism you are advocating.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

The problem is what's allowed. 2 dads, moms, 1 mom, 1 mom 1 dad, gay, gender identity, or whatever in the hell the twisted left wants to discuss simply doesn't belong in schools especially for elementary.

Says who? Why not, none of those things is bad. Are there no kids in elementary school with 2 dads/moms, 1 mom, etc? Are they not allowed to feel "normal" just because they don't have a 1 mom/1 dad household. Some kids have questions about their gender identity at a young age, that's not a bad thing. Having books that discuss these things doesn't "make kids gay" or "warp their minds", it just shows that it's OK to be "different".

It is asinine to argue otherwise. Boys in girls sports is asinine.

This is such a boogie man for the right. Let me let you in on a secret: No one...NO ONE...is changing their gender in order to win at sports. Plus, who the f-word cares, my guess is it doesn't affect you or anyone you know, so why get your undies in a twist.

That's what is happening and if you vote Democrat, you support it no matter what the hell you say.

So based on this reasoning, if you vote Republican, you are supporting white supremacy, election denial, all book banning, etc. I don't believe all that and know that many people are far more nuanced than that, but that is the kind of one-sideism you are advocating.

Got it. You agree with promoting se.x.ua. lity to elementary kids and allowing males to beat females in women's sports.

We fundamentally disagree.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Talk about great examples for justification of vouchers and the real world scenarios of what the liberal left wants to indoctrinate kids with. Straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[WestWYOPoke]

Got it. You agree with promoting se.x.ua. lity to elementary kids and allowing males to beat females in women's sports.

We fundamentally disagree.

Only EQUAL s.e.xu.ality. If it is ok to have books talking about hetero.se.x.ual relationships then I'm sure you would agree that there is no problem with having books talking about ho.mo.s.e.xual relationships. It's just reality. Children that are too young for one are too young for both, yes? I'm fine with that. But I don't think there are too many people asking to ban books about mom and dad kissing.

Again, males in female sports is such a small issue in the world, but Republicans act like it is a threat to our society. There are so many issues that are actual real problems in this country than this: gun violence/deaths, mental health, income discrepancy, health care costs, etc.

 

[WestWYOPoke]

Talk about great examples for justification of vouchers and the real world scenarios of what the liberal left wants to indoctrinate kids with. Straight from the horse's mouth.

Am I the horse? Because I'm not sure what I said that has anything to do with vouchers. I think I've made very cogent points here and instead of attempting to address them or justify your viewpoint, you are bitching out with the typical "liberals are bad" argument.
Hilariously, I'm not even a liberal, just more liberal than you.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Got it. You agree with promoting se.x.ua. lity to elementary kids and allowing males to beat females in women's sports.

We fundamentally disagree.

Only EQUAL s.e.xu.ality. If it is ok to have books talking about hetero.se.x.ual relationships then I'm sure you would agree that there is no problem with having books talking about ho.mo.s.e.xual relationships. It's just reality. Children that are too young for one are too young for both, yes? I'm fine with that. But I don't think there are too many people asking to ban books about mom and dad kissing.

Again, males in female sports is such a small issue in the world, but Republicans act like it is a threat to our society. There are so many issues that are actual real problems in this country than this: gun violence/deaths, mental health, income discrepancy, health care costs, etc.

S.e.x.uality doesn't belong in the hands of schools or elementary teachers for any reason. Period. 1st graders don't need to learn about it at all. That is not the proper age group. I'm fine with removing books about mom and dad kissing. Stick to their lane. STEM, government structure, etc. Social sciences are bring too politicized and need checks and balances. All pointing to a need for vouchers.

You can scream until you are bluev in the face about small percentages being insignificant. Do you take the same approach to COVID risk vs vaccine use or gun deaths vs gun owners or gun deaths vs alcohol related deaths. I doubt you do. The point is it is being allowed and even encouraged in some areas. Vouchers give parents an option if they don't agree with that.

To the topic at hand, do you oppose giving parents options to avoid these situations through a voucher system if they think it's better for their kid? If you are correct regarding small percentages, then public schools should flourish with an abundance of students. I say let parents have a choice and eliminate the public debate.

 

[CowboyNV]

Here's a good article on rural Republicans who are against vouchers.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/04/rural-republicans-revolt-against-school-voucher-plans.html

For the 2023-24 school year, there are 39 private schools serving 2,648 students in Wyoming (there are 359 public schools, serving 92,909 students). Since a large majority of schools in Wyoming are rural, I fail to see how the voucher helps a parent in Ten Sleep, or Big Piney or Dubois or (insert small school here). All vouchers will do is harm these smaller rural schools. One other thing, the majority of private schools in Wyoming are affiliated with a church or religion. Seems that would cause issues with a separation of church and state, but smarter people than me can figure it out.

I do agree that something needs to change with the public education in this country. I'm not sure this is the answer.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

I could definitely see an LDS-dominant private school situation rising up in small towns in WYO. I really don't think that'll happen but you never know. However, if the LDS parents think that is the best option, then I still say go for it. I do think you need to draw clear lines for extracurricular events. The private schools would need their own leagues, gyms, fields, etc. They should get 0 benefit from public schools.

There may not be a 1 size fits all but as schools become more politicized, parents need options. No, it is not isolated incidents. Example: many schools are teaching that the Americas were peaceful places living in harmony until European arrival. They are scrubbing the reality of war, rape, human sacrifice, slavery, and genocide prior to Europeans. Of course the scale changed significantly with European technology but the world was a brutal place. This is but one example of indoctrination occurring.

In short, I think the risks in rural WYO are there but not justification to avoid a national voucher program.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Just for the record the Supreme Court already ruled that as long as a voucher system is neutral, it can be used for religious schools.

 

[LanderPoke]

Dems are the OG book banners

 

[Itsux2beaewe]

[/quote]

Am I the horse? Because I'm not sure what I said that has anything to do with vouchers. I think I've made very cogent points here and instead of attempting to address them or justify your viewpoint, you are bitching out with the typical "liberals are bad" argument.
Hilariously, I'm not even a liberal, just more liberal than you.
[/quote]

How are you not a liberal? You hold every one of the same views as they do. I am a proud Constitutional Conservative and I’ll admit it. Proudly. It’s comical most liberals, who hold liberal views, carry the torch, state the mantra, say, I’m not a liberal - just more liberal than you. Why no pride to admit your views?

 

[Itsux2beaewe]

Only EQUAL s.e.xu.ality. If it is ok to have books talking about hetero.se.x.ual relationships then I'm sure you would agree that there is no problem with having books talking about ho.mo.s.e.xual relationships. It's just reality. Children that are too young for one are too young for both, yes? I'm fine with that. But I don't think there are too many people asking to ban books about mom and dad kissing.

Again, males in female sports is such a small issue in the world, but Republicans act like it is a threat to our society. There are so many issues that are actual real problems in this country than this: gun violence/deaths, mental health, income discrepancy, health care costs, etc.
[/quote]

Can you name one woman who wants to compete in male swimming? Or tennis? Or golf? One! There’s a reason it’s going one way! And it’s odd, the party that believe women are disenfranchised, are silent - when woman are really being disenfranchised or disadvantaged. Just like none of the me too movement will EVER bring up women who have been assaulted by a D. Tara Reade? So hypocritical. Democrats are silent about Hunter Biden lying on a gun application while wailing about wanting more checks when buying a gun. You are the most hypocritical group I’ve ever witnessed when it doesn’t fit you quest for control.