Who will be back for 23-24

[307bball]

Can you name a team who would have won a conference championship with injuries to half the bench, not to mention a conference pre season POTY pick on the bench?

No. But they wouldn't have finished DFL either. We were awful even when we were at full strength. And if you think it can get even worse with all of these marginal players, then next year may be Linder's last. It cannot be acceptable to win less than 10 games 2 years in a row. Is there one returning player on this team that could start on any other team in the conference? Perhaps. But it's not cut and dried.

Yeah...this was a very bad team. There is no sugar coating what went down. How much of a difference does Ike make on this team? I don't think it would be worst to first by any stretch. He's good but he's not that good. With Ike ....they are probably still bottom half. If I get to choose who to keep..obviously Ike...but If we could swap the entire team for replacement level D1 guys.... we would be better than 9 wins and last place in the conference.

 

[flyfishwyo]

No. But they wouldn't have finished DFL either. We were awful even when we were at full strength. And if you think it can get even worse with all of these marginal players, then next year may be Linder's last. It cannot be acceptable to win less than 10 games 2 years in a row. Is there one returning player on this team that could start on any other team in the conference? Perhaps. But it's not cut and dried.

Yeah...this was a very bad team. There is no sugar coating what went down. How much of a difference does Ike make on this team? I don't think it would be worst to first by any stretch. He's good but he's not that good. With Ike ....they are probably still bottom half. If I get to choose who to keep..obviously Ike...but If we could swap the entire team for replacement level D1 guys.... we would be better than 9 wins and last place in the conference.

The amount of time they spent on the floor had something to do with their performance. DuSell playing 25 a game is better than DuSell playing 40. Same with Oden and Wenzel. They aren't primary scorers, but they can add points. They play great defense. I'd love to see all three back.

I'd like to see Ike back, obviously.

Reynolds can score off the dribble. We missed that when he went down. I don't see him being the featured guy, but he can create his own shots and make them. I hope he stays.

Barnhart and Powell need some work. They'll have to make a big step forward to see more minutes. Both have potential.

We definitely need more talented scorers, guys who can create their own shots. If we can bring in 2 or 3 of those type players we have role players to put around them.

 

[307bball]

The amount of time they spent on the floor had something to do with their performance. DuSell playing 25 a game is better than DuSell playing 40. Same with Oden and Wenzel. They aren't primary scorers, but they can add points. They play great defense. I'd love to see all three back.

I'd like to see Ike back, obviously.

Reynolds can score off the dribble. We missed that when he went down. I don't see him being the featured guy, but he can create his own shots and make them. I hope he stays.

Barnhart and Powell need some work. They'll have to make a big step forward to see more minutes. Both have potential.

We definitely need more talented scorers, guys who can create their own shots. If we can bring in 2 or 3 of those type players we have role players to put around them.

Point of fact: Dusell did just about play 25 minutes per game... Average of 26.

The point you make about minutes played is instructive though. This year's team was full of guys that should not average much more than 20 minutes per game. Go look at the minutes played statistic for the good MW teams. The guys that play 26+ minutes per game are just better than every non- Maldonado player on Wyoming's roster this year. Even Maldo would benefit from about 7 minutes less per game.

Much has been made of the injuries... But really... Take Drake and Ike off of last year's team and you probably get about what we got this year. Now, it's true that any team would do worse when losing your top two guys, but the house of cards in the bottom 4/5's of our roster is, at best, less that mediocre.

This is a huge problem for Linder. I think he's a really good coach in the vein of good modern college basketball coaches. He is very dependent on a baseline level of talent that we have obviously dipped beneath this last season. In contrast, you have coaches like Joe Scott at AFA for whom the threshold of talent is pretty low. No matter how good any individual is at AFA, they will be running that back-cut heavy Princeton style offense that can mask a deficit of raw talent. I know there are folks who never liked Larry Shyatt, but he also had a system and strategy wherein a less than talented team could pick up wins.

The answer for Linder is to make sure and get better players (like...duh ). It's not just better top guys though .... it's better guys in that less than 22 minutes per game category. That was very bad this year. I think he knew the situation was tenuous going into the last season and the opportunity to add some guys (the now infamous Cali-3) presented itself. That went sideways in a bad way, but even before that happened....they just weren't that good. Linder is early in his career and he can learn but if he can't get better players in the 3 through 7 slots, we may not finish last but the top of the conference will be pretty out of reach.

 

[McPeachy]

No. But they wouldn't have finished DFL either. We were awful even when we were at full strength. And if you think it can get even worse with all of these marginal players, then next year may be Linder's last. It cannot be acceptable to win less than 10 games 2 years in a row. Is there one returning player on this team that could start on any other team in the conference? Perhaps. But it's not cut and dried.

Yeah...this was a very bad team. There is no sugar coating what went down. How much of a difference does Ike make on this team? I don't think it would be worst to first by any stretch. He's good but he's not that good. With Ike ....they are probably still bottom half. If I get to choose who to keep..obviously Ike...but If we could swap the entire team for replacement level D1 guys.... we would be better than 9 wins and last place in the conference.

Jeff Linder and I completely disagree. As Jeff has mentioned (in the press by the way) - there isn't a player in the country that can guard him. He is a HUGE difference maker. With him on the floor, the entire game changes. Clear as day.

 

[307bball]

Yeah...this was a very bad team. There is no sugar coating what went down. How much of a difference does Ike make on this team? I don't think it would be worst to first by any stretch. He's good but he's not that good. With Ike ....they are probably still bottom half. If I get to choose who to keep..obviously Ike...but If we could swap the entire team for replacement level D1 guys.... we would be better than 9 wins and last place in the conference.

Jeff Linder and I completely disagree. As Jeff has mentioned (in the press by the way) - there isn't a player in the country that can guard him. He is a HUGE difference maker. With him on the floor, the entire game changes. Clear as day.

Whether Ike is dominant or not is separable from a "what would have been" if Ike is healthy. I don't think worst to first is defensible. You might believe that but I doubt Linder does. I happen to agree with him that he can be borderline un-guardable, but it's a team sport and the rest of the team is just not good. Any argument for Wyoming contending for the conference title this last year hinges not just on him being dominant (most likely true), but on the rest of the team also elevating their play. While players who play with great players do better than players that don't, this years supporting cast was not good. It would have been like the previous year, just without Jeffries. Since no body emerged with a decent outside game, teams would have completely skewed their defenses towards Graham. This last years team with Ike would not have been first place. For them to have finished in the top half (5th place or higher), they would have had to win 6 or 7 more conference games depending on tie breakers. Looking back, that is where I would place the over/under with a healthy Ike.

 

[Bryoming]

I have heard rumors that there is at least one player that is out. I have nothing but rumors to substantiate this, but here are my thoughts on who is coming back:

• Barnhart: May be looking for other opportunities

• DuSell: Staying

• Foster: Staying

• Ike: Staying

• Oden: May be looking to get closer to home

• Powell: Staying

• Reynolds: Being pushed to go elsewhere by outside advisors

• Roberson: Staying

• Talich: Staying

• Wenzel: Has confirmed that he is staying

Again, I have zero sources to post for any of this information. Just what I've heard. Wicks did say during the press conference after the New Mexico game that they're going to talk to every player and re-recruit them. Hopefully it goes well!

 

[McPeachy]

Jeff Linder and I completely disagree. As Jeff has mentioned (in the press by the way) - there isn't a player in the country that can guard him. He is a HUGE difference maker. With him on the floor, the entire game changes. Clear as day.

Whether Ike is dominant or not is separable from a "what would have been" if Ike is healthy. I don't think worst to first is defensible. You might believe that but I doubt Linder does. I happen to agree with him that he can be borderline un-guardable, but it's a team sport and the rest of the team is just not good. Any argument for Wyoming contending for the conference title this last year hinges not just on him being dominant (most likely true), but on the rest of the team also elevating their play. While players who play with great players do better than players that don't, this years supporting cast was not good. It would have been like the previous year, just without Jeffries. Since no body emerged with a decent outside game, teams would have completely skewed their defenses towards Graham. This last years team with Ike would not have been first place. For them to have finished in the top half (5th place or higher), they would have had to win 6 or 7 more conference games depending on tie breakers. Looking back, that is where I would place the over/under with a healthy Ike.

That is pure hindsight - who knows. Your opinion is that we would have been better than last, but not first with Graham. Ok, I can see that. I can also see the dynamics changing SO much, that first could have still been in sight. The changes (TO THE TEAM) his presence makes when he is healthy and playing, are too many to mention here, including the 3 assholes not quitting, Reynolds not having to shoulder too much, etc., etc., etc.

 

[303cowboy]

[media]https://twitter.com/VerbalCommits/status/1635360643766452224?s=20[/media]

 

[Bryoming]

With the news about Reynolds I'm going to be very nervous about Oden

 

[LanderPoke]

Ike automatically makes us a top 3 team. He PROVED it last year.

 

[LanderPoke]

[media]https://twitter.com/VerbalCommits/status/1635360643766452224?s=20[/media]

Wow. So much for loyalty. We were his only offer iirc, then he spits in our faces by bolting. He would have been possibly the top dog next year. Guess he couldn't handle that type of pressure. See ya

 

[Bryoming]

https://twitter.com/VerbalCommits/status/1635371638287110147

 

[PokeTransplant]

https://twitter.com/VerbalCommits/status/1635371638287110147

This may be an indication that Ike is going to stay, which would limit any playing time for Barnhart.

 

[Bryoming]

https://twitter.com/VerbalCommits/status/1635371638287110147

This may be an indication that Ike is going to stay, which would limit any playing time for Barnhart.

Good point. As a side note, this one really surprises me. Barnhart could slip right in to the role Thompson was playing. I'll be curious to see where he lands and how he does.

 

[PokeTransplant]

This may be an indication that Ike is going to stay, which would limit any playing time for Barnhart.

Good point. As a side note, this one really surprises me. Barnhart could slip right in to the role Thompson was playing. I'll be curious to see where he lands and how he does.

I'm really hoping Powell develops and takes that role. More athletic and much higher ceiling than Thompson.

 

[flyfishwyo]

The amount of time they spent on the floor had something to do with their performance. DuSell playing 25 a game is better than DuSell playing 40. Same with Oden and Wenzel. They aren't primary scorers, but they can add points. They play great defense. I'd love to see all three back.

I'd like to see Ike back, obviously.

Reynolds can score off the dribble. We missed that when he went down. I don't see him being the featured guy, but he can create his own shots and make them. I hope he stays.

Barnhart and Powell need some work. They'll have to make a big step forward to see more minutes. Both have potential.

We definitely need more talented scorers, guys who can create their own shots. If we can bring in 2 or 3 of those type players we have role players to put around them.

Point of fact: Dusell did just about play 25 minutes per game... Average of 26.

I knew you would take that out of context. He averaged 34 minutes per game over the last 10.

I agree with the rest of your post. Rising tide and all of that. But I don't want to minimize what those guys are capable of if put into the correct role.

 

[laxwyo]

We really needed Reynolds, damn.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

Nate Barnhart to the portal…wtf. We were big barnhart fans.

 

[LanderPoke]

https://twitter.com/VerbalCommits/status/1635371638287110147

Damn. I kind of liked his game. He was not a favorite of the coaching staff so I can't say I blame the player here.

 

[LanderPoke]

We really needed Reynolds, damn.

Disagree. An undersized, nonathletic scoring guard should be pretty easy to come by. I will bet Reynolds makes a lateral move at best as a result of his entering the portal. And throw in the fact he didn't want to be here... see ya. And his defense sucked. Won't be missed.