What is Sawful?

[307bball]

Hear me out...Something about Sawfull's program makes me think he's not completely awful. Last season and this season we have seen a program with glaring deficiencies. He makes boneheaded personell decisions and is not helped out at all by his erstwhile OC. Even given all that, the CSU game shows us what a true train-wreck looks like. Say what you want about Sawful's shortcomings (and we have said plenty), he's running something that "can" win games. It's kind of becoming a poor-man's version of a Bohl program. He's not as good of a coach as Bohl...but he's not completely hapless. He's good enought to not be awful.

Does that make sense?

 

[Wyolie Coyote]

Hear me out...Something about Sawfull's program makes me think he's not completely awful. Last season and this season we have seen a program with glaring deficiencies. He makes boneheaded personell decisions and is not helped out at all by his erstwhile OC. Even given all that, the CSU game shows us what a true train-wreck looks like. Say what you want about Sawful's shortcomings (and we have said plenty), he's running something that "can" win games. It's kind of becoming a poor-man's version of a Bohl program. He's not as good of a coach as Bohl...but he's not completely hapless. He's good enought to not be awful.

Does that make sense?

No

 

[TheRealUW]

Definitely don’t agree.

One game, especially a rivalry game which the team had clearly identified as a ‘redemption game’, is not going to change my opinion on Sawvel.

Outside of the opening offensive drive, CSU outplayed us in the 2nd half.

Now, if he can get this team to win out or even win 3 out of the last 4, I might start to consider your point.

 

[flyfishwyo]

Hear me out...Something about Sawfull's program makes me think he's not completely awful. Last season and this season we have seen a program with glaring deficiencies. He makes boneheaded personell decisions and is not helped out at all by his erstwhile OC. Even given all that, the CSU game shows us what a true train-wreck looks like. Say what you want about Sawful's shortcomings (and we have said plenty), he's running something that "can" win games. It's kind of becoming a poor-man's version of a Bohl program. He's not as good of a coach as Bohl...but he's not completely hapless. He's good enought to not be awful.

Does that make sense?

Be careful. You're going to get killed on here for statements like that.

His game management/clock management have been atrocious. It's like he's learning on the job. Also, we're seeing that he stuck with the wrong offensive guy for way too long. Those two things clearly lost us 2 game this year (UNLV and AF) and maybe kept us from being competitive with CU.

He's brought in some good players. We're more talented on offense than any time since JA and Brian Hill were around. The defense is playing pretty well. Aaron Bohl has shown he can call a game and I'm willing to roll with him at DC.

The rest of the season will tell whether he can clean up the coaching mistakes.

 

[flyfishwyo]

Outside of the opening offensive drive, CSU outplayed us in the 2nd half.

Now, if he can get this team to win out or even win 3 out of the last 4, I might start to consider your point.

Totally disagree. CSU didn't outplay us at any point in that game. The script really went about as well as can be expected. We scored early and kept the pressure on through the first half and most of the 3rd quarter. The defense did what it's designed to do. It kept the ball in front and waited for them to make mistakes. We played some backups when it was a 4 score game. Special teams was decent. I have no idea how you could possibly think we were outplayed.

If we win 3 of the last 4, that would be amazing. SDSU is probably the 2nd best team we'll play all year. Winning at Fresno or Hawaii is tough.

 

[307bball]

thanks for the responses...it is interesting to see what others are seeing. I know by even trying to describe this, it could be construed that I think he's a good coach (I do not think that). All coaches make mistakes, even the great ones. I guess I've seen enough such that I don't place him in the "awful" coach category. That doesn't make him good but there are a lot of dumpster fire programs out there (we just saw one on Saturday) that are ran more poorly than Wyoming. This is the definition of "damning with faint praise".

 

[TheRealUW]

Totally disagree. CSU didn't outplay us at any point in that game. The script really went about as well as can be expected. We scored early and kept the pressure on through the first half and most of the 3rd quarter. The defense did what it's designed to do. It kept the ball in front and waited for them to make mistakes. We played some backups when it was a 4 score game. Special teams was decent. I have no idea how you could possibly think we were outplayed.

If we win 3 of the last 4, that would be amazing. SDSU is probably the 2nd best team we'll play all year. Winning at Fresno or Hawaii is tough.

"Outplayed" may not have been the best word choice. However, I maintain that the 2nd half was a pretty even half overall. We had a couple great moments on defense with the INT in the end zone and the turnover on downs in the red zone. The offense had the one good drive to start the half.

Total yards in the 2nd half were 219 to 142 in favor of CSU. After our initial scoring drive, we only had 64 total yards of offense in the 2nd half. Three of our four non-scoring drives in the 2nd half were 3-and-out. The fourth was 4-and-out.

The 2nd half felt better than it really was because we had already built a large lead and we were able to stop them from scoring. In reality, I felt like we lost our intensity once we felt like we had the game in hand and reverted back to the same Poke team I had seen for the first seven games of the season.

First half was fantastic. Like MWC champion fantastic. If we had played like that consistently for the entire season, I think we would be 7-1 right now (L to Utah). 2nd half, in my opinion, was nowhere close to that level.

 

[TheRealUW]

thanks for the responses...it is interesting to see what others are seeing. I know by even trying to describe this, it could be construed that I think he's a good coach (I do not think that). All coaches make mistakes, even the great ones. I guess I've seen enough such that I don't place him in the "awful" coach category. That doesn't make him good but there are a lot of dumpster fire programs out there (we just saw one on Saturday) that are ran more poorly than Wyoming. This is the definition of "damning with faint praise".

I see where you are coming from, but it's all relative.

Yes, CSU is currently a dumpster fire and Norvel was the head man that lead them there. But that CSU team is devoid of talent at pretty much every position. Norvel obviously messed up on the recruiting front, but if we separate recruiting from coaching, then I'd say it's a minor miracle that he got that team to beat Fresno State the way they did.

My main problem with Sawvel is that I feel like we have underperformed in relationship to the talent we have on the team. Are we the most talented team in the conference? No. But we have had enough talent on the team these last two years that we should not be losing at home to Idaho, or losing at home to a 1-7 Utah State team, or squeaking by a pretty bad Akron team, or needing a furious 4th quarter rally to beat a mediocre SJSU team at home, or losing to a 1-5 Air Force team. All these performances have happened in not even two full seasons. In my opinion, the dismantling of CSU this year or the road win against WSU last year don't make up for all of these flops.

Let me ask you this, if Sawvel was the head man at CSU this year, do you think CSU would have won any more than the 2 wins they have under Norvel? I don't. Honestly, I think he likely finds a way to lose both the Northern Colorado and Fresno State games. Obviously, we will never know, but I'm curious as to your take on that thought experiment.

 

[McPeachy]

Total yards in the 2nd half were 219 to 142 in favor of CSU. After our initial scoring drive, we only had 64 total yards of offense in the 2nd half. Three of our four non-scoring drives in the 2nd half were 3-and-out. The fourth was 4-and-out.

The roll-over from Bohl maybe? Go ultra-conservative and vanilla when you have a lead?!

 

[307bball]

I see where you are coming from, but it's all relative.

Yes, CSU is currently a dumpster fire and Norvel was the head man that lead them there. But that CSU team is devoid of talent at pretty much every position. Norvel obviously messed up on the recruiting front, but if we separate recruiting from coaching, then I'd say it's a minor miracle that he got that team to beat Fresno State the way they did.

My main problem with Sawvel is that I feel like we have underperformed in relationship to the talent we have on the team. Are we the most talented team in the conference? No. But we have had enough talent on the team these last two years that we should not be losing at home to Idaho, or losing at home to a 1-7 Utah State team, or squeaking by a pretty bad Akron team, or needing a furious 4th quarter rally to beat a mediocre SJSU team at home, or losing to a 1-5 Air Force team. All these performances have happened in not even two full seasons. In my opinion, the dismantling of CSU this year or the road win against WSU last year don't make up for all of these flops.

Let me ask you this, if Sawvel was the head man at CSU this year, do you think CSU would have won any more than the 2 wins they have under Norvel? I don't. Honestly, I think he likely finds a way to lose both the Northern Colorado and Fresno State games. Obviously, we will never know, but I'm curious as to your take on that thought experiment.

That is a great question....my guess is that Sawful would not move the needle. I think the program we have seen since Sawful took over is not as good as the one left to him by Bohl. He's not as good of a coach as Bohl so we see the program taking a step back. I have not followed CSU like I have the Cowboys...The CSU team I saw on Saturday was disorganized, demoralized, and ill-prepared. Sawful is at least good enough that his team can take that team behind the woodshed and administer a beating.

How the team finishes out this year will reall tell. It's possible that we go 0-fer and any thoughts I have that he's at least competent will turn out to have been an error. If they somehow pull a bowl game out of this season, I have to uprade him to "competent"....that is sort of the bar. Nobody is confusing that with excellence.

 

[TheRealUW]

That is a great question....my guess is that Sawful would not move the needle. I think the program we have seen since Sawful took over is not as good as the one left to him by Bohl. He's not as good of a coach as Bohl so we see the program taking a step back. I have not followed CSU like I have the Cowboys...The CSU team I saw on Saturday was disorganized, demoralized, and ill-prepared. Sawful is at least good enough that his team can take that team behind the woodshed and administer a beating.

How the team finishes out this year will reall tell. It's possible that we go 0-fer and any thoughts I have that he's at least competent will turn out to have been an error. If they somehow pull a bowl game out of this season, I have to uprade him to "competent"....that is sort of the bar. Nobody is confusing that with excellence.

I think that's a pretty fair assessment.

I always worry about putting too much stock into rivalry games. Weird things happen in those games. The one thing I will give Sawvel credit for is having the team highly motivated, pissed off, and locked in mentally for this game...at least in the first half.

 

[flyfishwyo]

My main problem with Sawvel is that I feel like we have underperformed in relationship to the talent we have on the team. Are we the most talented team in the conference? No. But we have had enough talent on the team these last two years that we should not be losing at home to Idaho, or losing at home to a 1-7 Utah State team, or squeaking by a pretty bad Akron team, or needing a furious 4th quarter rally to beat a mediocre SJSU team at home, or losing to a 1-5 Air Force team. All these performances have happened in not even two full seasons. In my opinion, the dismantling of CSU this year or the road win against WSU last year don't make up for all of these flops.

I'd agree with that statement 100%. He's improved the talent level on offense from the last 5 or so years of Craig Bohl football, but hasn't improved the production. We've only seen 2 teams this year that had a better roster overall than us. The coaching mistakes are killing us. The blocked punts, the strange situational play calls, the clock management issues. All of those things can be fixed. We'll see if they are.

 

[Bryoming]

Hear me out...Something about Sawfull's program makes me think he's not completely awful. Last season and this season we have seen a program with glaring deficiencies. He makes boneheaded personell decisions and is not helped out at all by his erstwhile OC. Even given all that, the CSU game shows us what a true train-wreck looks like. Say what you want about Sawful's shortcomings (and we have said plenty), he's running something that "can" win games. It's kind of becoming a poor-man's version of a Bohl program. He's not as good of a coach as Bohl...but he's not completely hapless. He's good enought to not be awful.

Does that make sense?

He has done some truly boneheaded things during games, but from what I hear from current and former players he is a great motivator. I tend to agree that he's learning on the job and has a LONG ways to go. I also think he should probably let the coordinators run their respective sides of the ball and not get involved with personnel decisions. We saw that on display last weekend with Sims getting snaps, Deen seeing looks at WR, the running back rotation being situational rather than scripted, and Svoboda not sniffing the backfield.

TLDR; we could absolutely do worse than Sawvel. It would be hard to find someone that resonates with the players better.

 

[Hotkarl]

If he is lucky he found a good oc in bouknight. Is he any good as a HC? Idk he seems to recruit ok. We have two incidences where he waisted a season when he should of made a change, thats pretty bad. I guess he will get a chance to learn on the job tho. I hope he turns out

 

[OrediggerPoke]

No. He isn’t a good head coach. As others have said, his strength is his ability to relate to players. Other than that, he is awful in accessing the team and needed changes, worst game and clock manager that Wyoming has ever had, struggles to make adjustments and all that does lead to losses that frankly should be wins (Air Force is example numero uno). Can he get this team to 6-6? I think so if Bouknight continues to call a great game like he did against CSU and the players bring a similar intensity.

 

[phxpoke]

He is the metaphorical pilot of our airplane. I wish him only the best and I hope he is successful. I’m not sure if six wins will get us to a bowl because there are so many mountain West teams this season with winning records. I think the magic number is seven.

 

[Bear Claw]

Hard to put any faith in a coach that refused to make an obvious quarterback change until 2/3 of the season had passed. Then, he didn’t make an OC change for 1 1/2 seasons when it was clearly evident JJ wasn’t getting it done. Also, don’t know how you can neglect the CU debacle when he purposely didn’t try to win the game and only played to make it closer. His game management skills are severely lacking. I think he’s a respectable DC. Sawful is not cut out to be an FBS head coach.

 

[doreno5]

Sawvel was a better dc . I suspect that the reason he stuck with Johnson had more to do with friendship than anything else. As a head coach I am still not satisfied that he is good fit for the job. He reminds me of Fritz Shumur, great dc but a bad head coach.
PS Sawvel was an ok dc , not great like Fritz

 

[Cowboy20]

If he goes 4-0 or even 3-1 the rest of the way, yes. I do have to admit that he has improved since last year in multiple phases. I appreciate that he doesn’t micromanage his coordinators. Players love him and he has recruited well. I know nobody likes to be patient, but he is trying to change up our offensive identity since Bohl. This takes time. I’m not saying he’s a world beater by any means…yet. I do think he has the potential to do some great things. Gotta give him a chance. Plus, who wants to be in a position like the sheep right now? Owing millions and hoping for an FCS coach to take us to another level? With so many P4 opportunities, there aren’t even any up and comers from coordinator positions right now. Let Sawvel have a chance, maybe he surprises us. Just win Pokes!

 

[ragtimejoe1]

How much did that on-the-job training cost UW for both PBJ and Junior? Brilliant strategy. Do so awful your first year that a potential 6 year win the next looks good.

It was sold as a continuity hire. It was sold as a means to build on a 9 win season and that it wasn't rational to conduct a national search because it was too big of risk of attrition, stepping back, etc. In other words, fans were sold (and some fans sold) a line of bullshit. Not building on the 9 win season makes this hire a failure. POKES aren't to 6 wins yet either.

I'd say, overall, failure. The recent win over csu keeps it from being an epic and spectacular failure. Wins over 3-6 Akron, 2-6 Northern Iowa, 2-5 SJSU, and 2-6 csu has a lot to do with how bad the other teams are. Could it be worse, well, yeah, I guess we could be those guys. I'm not sure that is the best measuring stick.