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Wearing Me Very Thin...

McPeachy

McPeachy

Well-known member
Maybe it is the weather and the holidays that are magnifying everything. I woke up this morning, a little depressed about the University of Wyoming - academically & of course athletically (as to the reason for my post). And despite what others here want to believe, I have been a solid booster, contributor, and fan, for over 40 years...and would be happy to take the pepsi challenge with anyone that posts here regarding my loyalty and support.

Basically, I am sick of this shit. I am sick of losing...or being very mediocre to lousy, most of the time. With the exception of some blips:

1987 / 1988 (football), 1996 (football) - the only seasons with 3 or less losses since I have been closely following and contributing...

And a smattering of competitive men's basketball (1981, 82, 87, 88, and maybe 01-02) our only NCAA appearances since I have been closely following...

And maybe the Women's NIT championship run and NCAA ticket a few years ago...

It is just damn difficult at times to stoke the fire. This next football hire is crucial to my generation of fans and boosters - to be a win - a big win. I fear that if this one is a dud like the last 4-5 (and a few before as well), UW is in trouble (and not just athletically - as indicated above). Maybe that is part of the Burman master plan, to continue to dumb-down things to the "manageable level" and status quo of the mid-pack MWC. The cause and effect of a lousy / mediocre hire this go-round, will be detrimental to all things UW. I hope that they (and we all know who they are) are thinking outside of their four walls on this one - and really digging into the process.
 
You are right McP. This is not just another hire, this needs to be the biggest hire they have ever done. I've been here at least as long as you have and I feel the same way you do.
 
Pardner, you said it best...I,m wearing thin, wondering why I should join Cjc again, wondering why I should give a damn about this ".........
 
I feel your pain and had the very same thoughts....but then my mind turned to a different realization. Maybe it isn't the coaches............ how can this many coaches fail at producing a quality team? I think we, fans in particular, are putting the blame where the public traditionally does......on the coaches. It must be their fault that we cant win. I would suggest that it isn't their fault. I have been a coach for twenty years in three different sports at the high school level. I understand the pressure put on the head coach form the public. I was once fired after a 6-3 season and making the playoffs for the first time in 6 years because I didn't play a school board members kids enough. Thankfully the public was outraged and they hired me back two weeks later. I also have the unique perspective of having a son on the current football team at WYO. But if we have a history of losing and the exception is a winning season then maybe something else is broken. I personally believe that it is a combination of things that contribute to the historical performance of our football teams. I also understand that the "good enough" attitude is not acceptable. That desire to win and that competitive spirit is what leads fans to irrational conclusions. From an X an O point of view there was none better than DC! He is and will continue to be one of the nations leading offensive coordinators. So will we get someone better from that perspective........probably not. Will the new coach be better at other things .......probably! So it is a matter of picking your poison and what can you live with. Finally, just because a coach has success at his former school(s) in no way can translate to success at the University of Wyoming. We have seen it before and we will continue to see it. I guarantee that no matter who comes in as the new leader of this program half of you will attack his record, character, recruiting ability, or integrity. So from one coach to the rest of you.......look beyond the coaching staff to try and solve the woeful ways of our only University in the state. Troubles run much deeper than many of you realize and I am not sure it is fixable. So then what are we left with?
 
Yep, something else is broken..no vision, no plan, lousy leaders, good old boys with connections to big money running the place....Burman is just one of several, the BOT is not representative of the state or responsive to my aspirations fior the place
 
jarhead said:
I feel your pain and had the very same thoughts....but then my mind turned to a different realization. Maybe it isn't the coaches............ how can this many coaches fail at producing a quality team? I think we, fans in particular, are putting the blame where the public traditionally does......on the coaches. It must be their fault that we cant win. I would suggest that it isn't their fault. I have been a coach for twenty years in three different sports at the high school level. I understand the pressure put on the head coach form the public. I was once fired after a 6-3 season and making the playoffs for the first time in 6 years because I didn't play a school board members kids enough. Thankfully the public was outraged and they hired me back two weeks later. I also have the unique perspective of having a son on the current football team at WYO. But if we have a history of losing and the exception is a winning season then maybe something else is broken. I personally believe that it is a combination of things that contribute to the historical performance of our football teams. I also understand that the "good enough" attitude is not acceptable. That desire to win and that competitive spirit is what leads fans to irrational conclusions. From an X an O point of view there was none better than DC! He is and will continue to be one of the nations leading offensive coordinators. So will we get someone better from that perspective........probably not. Will the new coach be better at other things .......probably! So it is a matter of picking your poison and what can you live with. Finally, just because a coach has success at his former school(s) in no way can translate to success at the University of Wyoming. We have seen it before and we will continue to see it. I guarantee that no matter who comes in as the new leader of this program half of you will attack his record, character, recruiting ability, or integrity. So from one coach to the rest of you.......look beyond the coaching staff to try and solve the woeful ways of our only University in the state. Troubles run much deeper than many of you realize and I am not sure it is fixable. So then what are we left with?
Click to expand...

I have to agree with a lot of this, for one it is environmental, part of that is purely location. I look at it like this, If I were being recruited in the MWC right now by all current schools, where would I go first choice? And, where would UW rate overall with all those choices available? It ain't pretty fans.

:doh:
 
Players play for coaches. Location, amnetities are important, but many even most recruits commit to play for coaches and to win football games.
 
LasCrucesPoke said:
Players play for coaches. Location, amnetities are important, but many even most recruits commit to play for coaches and to win football games.
Click to expand...

That depends largely on what level of recruit you are seeking. If that was the case my son most definitely would have been in Helena playing for Coach VanDIest. 7 National championships in the last 11 years. More goes into a recruits decision than the coach and the record. I think what you are saying is true of the top level programs but I guarantee recruits aren't coming to Laramie because Of our storied past or even the dynamic coaching staff. For my son it was about the possibility of playing D1 and he is born and bred in brown and gold!
 
Well, and also they usual want to play at the highest level possibly. Didn't say anything about history, but what I was getting at I guess isn't just coaches per se but about relationships. Other things supplement that, and clearly you cannot fit every kid into the same box. I think there are many coaches who recruit lights out no matter where they are because they relate well to the kids. Your son has a relationship with UW. Carroll College versus MW, yeah pretty easy choice, although I realize it's not as easy if you're going the walk on route. If you're talking straight up? yeah. I guess what I'm trying to say is the right coach, the right recruiter, can out recruit most other schools in the MW and land players in Laramie for what it is and because of the relationship they can develop with the kid and their family. Boise I think being the only real exception, as the pereception and reality is they are consistently a level above and equal to at least the bottom half of BCS conference teams.
 
Wyoming fans:
I am in complete agreement. The story that Mike Vorel put out concerning the emails back and forth with our previous (and awesome) president the the BOT blew my mind. I sat there and stared at it for 20 minutes in complete shock at how our BOT handled that. How are you not excited to have a president that wants to have success. If a president or BOT for that matter is happy with the status qou...with just being "good enough" then what in the world is the University of Wyoming trying to accomplish? I am not just talking about athletics. I am talking about its charge as an academic institution! Educating the students, research, developing and molding young men and women to contribute to our society and the GLOBAL society! Their reaction to the president's email suggests to me that they are content. THEY ARE THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES!!!! THEY SHOULD NEVER BE CONTENT!!! Their role is to continue to push, ask questions, seek ways to make Wyoming better in every facet of their existence. That is their JOB!!! And clearly....and it has never been so clear to me until now...that they really suck at their jobs.

so what do we do to get change. It's easy to sit here and bitch. What do we do to spark change?


On a side note: Mike Vorel. That dude is awesome! He (un)covers things and tells it like it is. He is a true "information giver" and I appreciate his standpoint on Wyoming athletics. Keep up the good work. What you do is appreciated.
 
Dutch there are people on here and around Poke Nation that won't agree with you, I however, agree completely. You NEVER stop improving, or seeking to improve, and you are never content. The BOT are smart successful people that certainly believe that, but they have sucked at it lately.
 
Here's what really galls me: csewe is actually spending money. Their coaches make more than ours and they will probably have a new stadium in a few years. Now we are the cheap ones. And it's showing on the playing fields.

Why spend 20 million or whatever on that Wilcatter addition and then spend peanuts for the product on the field? It makes no sense.

Also, we could use some chair back seating in the War. I'm like you McPeachy. I've seen enough of this crap. And I don't think DC was the whole problem. We are turning into a coaches graveyard, just like csewe was before and after Lubick.

If we go cheap and hire some d2 guy or some position coach from the NFL ( remember Embry at CU?), I will really start to question my committment to the CJC. If Tedford would come here, great. If not, we need a proven D1 coach and I don't mean Mangino. I can't get behind a guy whose own school sold shirts that read "our coach can eat your coach".
 
Dutchnation said:
Wyoming fans:
I am in complete agreement. The story that Mike Vorel put out concerning the emails back and forth with our previous (and awesome) president the the BOT blew my mind. I sat there and stared at it for 20 minutes in complete shock at how our BOT handled that. How are you not excited to have a president that wants to have success. If a president or BOT for that matter is happy with the status qou...with just being "good enough" then what in the world is the University of Wyoming trying to accomplish? I am not just talking about athletics. I am talking about its charge as an academic institution! Educating the students, research, developing and molding young men and women to contribute to our society and the GLOBAL society! Their reaction to the president's email suggests to me that they are content. THEY ARE THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES!!!! THEY SHOULD NEVER BE CONTENT!!! Their role is to continue to push, ask questions, seek ways to make Wyoming better in every facet of their existence. That is their JOB!!! And clearly....and it has never been so clear to me until now...that they really suck at their jobs.

so what do we do to get change. It's easy to sit here and bitch. What do we do to spark change?


On a side note: Mike Vorel. That dude is awesome! He (un)covers things and tells it like it is. He is a true "information giver" and I appreciate his standpoint on Wyoming athletics. Keep up the good work. What you do is appreciated.
Click to expand...
You've got to make the BOT directly accountable to the folks. It's time to tear down our state's tradition of clubby leadership. This traces all the way back to the Stockgrowers Association and the tobacco stained oak-paneled walls of the Cheyenne Club. Wyoming is considered one of the states most enabling of corruption due to the lack of transparency and organization of chums who have managed to keep the old Northern money's fists on the reins and have perpetuated the dog-wagging tail our state has been for over a century. The one institution extant in the state that would have the greatest impact on ending Wyoming's #1 export being it's young adults, is the University of Wyoming. But as long as its under the boot heels of the North, it will be status quo.

Any lawyers on this board willing to draft a ballot initiative changing the status of the BOT?
 
Wow, I can hardly believe it; actually see others above spouting some of what I have been saying for years--i.e, put the product on the floor/field and the fans will come, then the so called necessary improvements, etc. should take place. I would argue, and have for some time, that a winning tradition has more to do with drawing a recruit to a college/coach than do having the nice facilities for our rich donors (you know, that taking care of our buddies element). I always liked that I could attend our basketball games (as I have said in previous posts, I was/am more into basketball than football) home games and rub elbows with our governors/elected officials and UW administers sitting in the stands or standing in concession lines with us common ticket holders.

Quite frankly I have to admit that I do not know what TB's vision for UW athletics is. Only thing that sticks in my mind is that a few years back it was to get the box seats (Wildcatter) completed and the past couple of years it has been to renovate the AA (because it is "just a hole in the ground with cement in it" that was built too big in the first place)--darn legislature them UW too much money or it would have been built smaller! And TB has me wondering when he makes statements about the stadium upgrades being complete when one sees that the concession stands under the stadium on the west side look like they have over the past many, many years. And then to have a coffee buddy tell me that he heard that our latest night football game had generators running to power the TV broadcast--seems to me there was a report about the power problems to the stadium after that infamous game (I think it was Utah but my memory does slip up more frequently as the years add up). So stadium upgrades are completed and we move on to the renovation/downsizing of the AA. Well as I often say, I am old school--the product is more important than the packaging. Sort of sorry to see President Sternberg leave; sounds to me like he was the type who could have put some fire and spirit back in UW (not just its athletics).
 
It's an arms race.
You have to keep up with upgrades to be good.
You want a good product and then do the upgrades?
Well what kind of product are you going to get when the competitors have the nicer upgrades that the future athletes would go to before here?
You need to have good facilities to win. You need to win to have good facilities.
It's not as simple as "just win then upgrade". How can you expect to win with nothing to get good athletes here?
 
BeaverPoke said:
It's an arms race.
You have to keep up with upgrades to be good.
You want a good product and then do the upgrades?
Well what kind of product are you going to get when the competitors have the nicer upgrades that the future athletes would go to before here?
You need to have good facilities to win. You need to win to have good facilities.
It's not as simple as "just win then upgrade". How can you expect to win with nothing to get good athletes here?
Click to expand...

Facilities aren't the problem right now.
 
wylrae said:
Wow, I can hardly believe it; actually see others above spouting some of what I have been saying for years--i.e, put the product on the floor/field and the fans will come, then the so called necessary improvements, etc. should take place.... So stadium upgrades are completed and we move on to the renovation/downsizing of the AA.
Click to expand...

I think that part of the problem is that kids in Wyoming do not, as a whole, aspire to the whole package that is U.W. Is it a dream school or a safety school? The same question can be asked athletically and academically.

Athletically, especially in basketball--which every school in the state sponsors at the varsity level--I think the Athletic Department should be more invested in putting a product on the floor that will require 14,000+ seats during the in-conference portion of the schedule than trying to downsize the arena to make it seem full.

From the perspective of a parent of young children, I am beginning to think that the next athletic facility project should be to enclose the War under a retractable dome and put a track around the field (if possible). This might also enable the university's facilities to serve as home for more WHSAA championship events and get more Wyoming high school students exposed to campus for a weekend. I know there are hotel capacity and other issues involved as well, but if we are talking about elevating the entire university, then we need to see it improve its game with kids around the state. (I would also argue that we need a couple other colleges in Cheyenne and Casper that would be options for kids and apply pressure on U.W. to hustle a little harder on the academic recruitment circuit.
 
Wyovanian said:
Dutchnation said:
Wyoming fans:
I am in complete agreement. The story that Mike Vorel put out concerning the emails back and forth with our previous (and awesome) president the the BOT blew my mind. I sat there and stared at it for 20 minutes in complete shock at how our BOT handled that. How are you not excited to have a president that wants to have success. If a president or BOT for that matter is happy with the status qou...with just being "good enough" then what in the world is the University of Wyoming trying to accomplish? I am not just talking about athletics. I am talking about its charge as an academic institution! Educating the students, research, developing and molding young men and women to contribute to our society and the GLOBAL society! Their reaction to the president's email suggests to me that they are content. THEY ARE THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES!!!! THEY SHOULD NEVER BE CONTENT!!! Their role is to continue to push, ask questions, seek ways to make Wyoming better in every facet of their existence. That is their JOB!!! And clearly....and it has never been so clear to me until now...that they really suck at their jobs.

so what do we do to get change. It's easy to sit here and bitch. What do we do to spark change?


On a side note: Mike Vorel. That dude is awesome! He (un)covers things and tells it like it is. He is a true "information giver" and I appreciate his standpoint on Wyoming athletics. Keep up the good work. What you do is appreciated.
Click to expand...
You've got to make the BOT directly accountable to the folks. It's time to tear down our state's tradition of clubby leadership. This traces all the way back to the Stockgrowers Association and the tobacco stained oak-paneled walls of the Cheyenne Club. Wyoming is considered one of the states most enabling of corruption due to the lack of transparency and organization of chums who have managed to keep the old Northern money's fists on the reins and have perpetuated the dog-wagging tail our state has been for over a century. The one institution extant in the state that would have the greatest impact on ending Wyoming's #1 export being it's young adults, is the University of Wyoming. But as long as its under the boot heels of the North, it will be status quo.

Any lawyers on this board willing to draft a ballot initiative changing the status of the BOT?
Click to expand...

If I were a lawyer and about 20 years younger, I would do it.
 
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