Vigen has to go

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Oredigger, ok, I get it now and we just disagree. You think the O is fine against some of the worst defenses WYO has ever faced. I think the O needs a lot of improvement to beat teams with a pulse.

Agree to disagree.

No one has said the offense is just fine.
They are just saying let the dude with Tom Osborne in his speed dial make the decision on if the OC is up to snuff

Bingo. Not sure why ragtime struggles so much understanding that is my belief because I don’t want to run Bohl off like micromanaging inevitably will accomplish.

If criticizing an offensive output that is consistently in the bottom 1/4 of college football runs Bohl off, then he isn't very Cowboy tough...

 

[calpoke25]

How are we going to run Bohl off? He has essentially as close to a lifetime deal in CFB as possible, and is paid rather handsomely (highest in the conference this year with retention bonus). For better or worse we’re tied together for a long time, unless he actually becomes good enough to get a better job, which to date he hasn’t been. But you think if he becomes good enough to get a Big 10 job he would maybe turn that down if we were all a little nicer to him???? Please.

His salary is roughly middle of the road for a good P5 coordinator... Don't fool yourself.

Additionally...he doesn't need the money and is probably at the point in his life where he may question if it is even worth it anymore.
[/quote]

I’m still confused how we’re going to run him off. You’re suggesting he’d ditch our HC job, buy himself out (nobody buys out HC to be a coordinator) forgo all that guaranteed money, to become a P5 coordinator because he’s tired of the (very mild by big time football standards) criticism leveled at his offense.

Please enlighten me how Bohl is going to get run off given his lengthy contract and good salary.

 

[SheepSlayer]

Oredigger, ok, I get it now and we just disagree. You think the O is fine against some of the worst defenses WYO has ever faced. I think the O needs a lot of improvement to beat teams with a pulse.

Agree to disagree.

No one has said the offense is just fine.
They are just saying let the dude with Tom Osborne in his speed dial make the decision on if the OC is up to snuff

Bingo. Not sure why ragtime struggles so much understanding that is my belief because I don’t want to run Bohl off like micromanaging inevitably will accomplish.

If criticizing an offensive output that is consistently in the bottom 1/4 of college football runs Bohl off, then he isn't very Cowboy tough...

What's sad is that fans aren't even asking for an above average offense, we're simply asking for a slightly better than terrible offense, and somehow this is controversial. If it truly isn't Vigen's fault and he's actually a better than terrible OC in disguise then we would support keeping him on board. However, all evidence and everyone who watches this team agrees that is not the case.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Oredigger, ok, I get it now and we just disagree. You think the O is fine against some of the worst defenses WYO has ever faced. I think the O needs a lot of improvement to beat teams with a pulse.

Agree to disagree.

No one has said the offense is just fine.
They are just saying let the dude with Tom Osborne in his speed dial make the decision on if the OC is up to snuff

Bingo. Not sure why ragtime struggles so much understanding that is my belief because I don’t want to run Bohl off like micromanaging inevitably will accomplish.

If criticizing an offensive output that is consistently in the bottom 1/4 of college football runs Bohl off, then he isn't very Cowboy tough...

What's sad is that fans aren't even asking for an above average offense, we're simply asking for a slightly better than terrible offense, and somehow this is controversial. If it truly isn't Vigen's fault and he's actually a better than terrible OC in disguise then we would support keeping him on board. However, all evidence and everyone who watches this team agrees that is not the case.

No kidding... It wouldn't take much. Be a bottom half offense instead of a bottom quarter offense and this team is 10-0 this season. It's incredible more people can't understand this.

And there are two areas greatly hurting this team right now..... 1. Suspect Play Calling and 2. QB play. I wonder who is in charge of those two areas?

 

[WestWYOPoke]

How are we going to run Bohl off? He has essentially as close to a lifetime deal in CFB as possible, and is paid rather handsomely (highest in the conference this year with retention bonus). For better or worse we’re tied together for a long time, unless he actually becomes good enough to get a better job, which to date he hasn’t been. But you think if he becomes good enough to get a Big 10 job he would maybe turn that down if we were all a little nicer to him???? Please.

His salary is roughly middle of the road for a good P5 coordinator... Don't fool yourself.

Additionally...he doesn't need the money and is probably at the point in his life where he may question if it is even worth it anymore.

I’m still confused how we’re going to run him off. You’re suggesting he’d ditch our HC job, buy himself out (nobody buys out HC to be a coordinator) forgo all that guaranteed money, to become a P5 coordinator because he’s tired of the (very mild by big time football standards) criticism leveled at his offense.

Please enlighten me how Bohl is going to get run off given his lengthy contract and good salary.

I believe what they are trying to say is that Bohl is the type of individual, that if you start dictating how he should run his program, he is just as likely to quit as he is to do what you want. Yes he has a good amount of money on the table, but they are inferring that he already has money and walking away from more would not be that big of a deal for him.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

How are we going to run Bohl off? He has essentially as close to a lifetime deal in CFB as possible, and is paid rather handsomely (highest in the conference this year with retention bonus). For better or worse we’re tied together for a long time, unless he actually becomes good enough to get a better job, which to date he hasn’t been. But you think if he becomes good enough to get a Big 10 job he would maybe turn that down if we were all a little nicer to him???? Please.

His salary is roughly middle of the road for a good P5 coordinator... Don't fool yourself.

Additionally...he doesn't need the money and is probably at the point in his life where he may question if it is even worth it anymore.

I’m still confused how we’re going to run him off. You’re suggesting he’d ditch our HC job, buy himself out (nobody buys out HC to be a coordinator) forgo all that guaranteed money, to become a P5 coordinator because he’s tired of the (very mild by big time football standards) criticism leveled at his offense.

Please enlighten me how Bohl is going to get run off given his lengthy contract and good salary.

I believe what they are trying to say is that Bohl is the type of individual, that if you start dictating how he should run his program, he is just as likely to quit as he is to do what you want. Yes he has a good amount of money on the table, but they are inferring that he already has money and walking away from more would not be that big of a deal for him.

Exactly! All of those contracts typically have 'retirement' clauses that allow the coach to walk away without a buyout in the event of medical issues or retirement. At Bohl's age and with his personality, he is exactly the type of person I can see saying enough is enough.

And a P5 may be willing to say Bohl if you want to come be a coordinator here, we like the way you handle defenses and we will pay your buyout.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

How are we going to run Bohl off? He has essentially as close to a lifetime deal in CFB as possible, and is paid rather handsomely (highest in the conference this year with retention bonus). For better or worse we’re tied together for a long time, unless he actually becomes good enough to get a better job, which to date he hasn’t been. But you think if he becomes good enough to get a Big 10 job he would maybe turn that down if we were all a little nicer to him???? Please.

His salary is roughly middle of the road for a good P5 coordinator... Don't fool yourself.

Additionally...he doesn't need the money and is probably at the point in his life where he may question if it is even worth it anymore.

I’m still confused how we’re going to run him off. You’re suggesting he’d ditch our HC job, buy himself out (nobody buys out HC to be a coordinator) forgo all that guaranteed money, to become a P5 coordinator because he’s tired of the (very mild by big time football standards) criticism leveled at his offense.

Please enlighten me how Bohl is going to get run off given his lengthy contract and good salary.

I believe what they are trying to say is that Bohl is the type of individual, that if you start dictating how he should run his program, he is just as likely to quit as he is to do what you want. Yes he has a good amount of money on the table, but they are inferring that he already has money and walking away from more would not be that big of a deal for him.

Exactly! All of those contracts typically have 'retirement' clauses that allow the coach to walk away without a buyout in the event of medical issues or retirement. At Bohl's age and with his personality, he is exactly the type of person I can see saying enough is enough.

And a P5 may be willing to say Bohl if you want to come be a coordinator here, we like the way you handle defenses and we will pay your buyout.

If he'd be willing to walk away because the fan base/administration isn't willing to swallow another dose of "Good Enough", then maybe he should go. I love Bohl and am grateful for where the program is now versus where it was when he got here but no one with a sane look at this team can be happy with the offensive performance. If he can't handle that, he probably shouldn't be a head coach anywhere.

 

[calpoke25]

LOL Bohl already had his shot at a P5 coordinator job and it didn’t pan out. Some P5 isn’t buying him out to be their DC. That’s ridiculous. He’s been a HC now for 20 some years.

I guess if he wants to retire because he doesn’t like a little criticism ok but I don’t foresee anyone walking away from that kind of money. It’s not like he’s 75 or something, so that’s an equally ridiculous fear. If you think this criticism is bad try looking at the criticism that major coaches endure. Not exactly Cowboy Tough. So we shouldn’t criticize (rightfully) the offense on the field that the HC is ultimately responsible for out of some fear that our HC (who has a losing record) is going to walk away from years and years of guaranteed money? Please stop with this nonsense. Nobody is saying he should be fired.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

LOL Bohl already had his shot at a P5 coordinator job and it didn’t pan out. Some P5 isn’t buying him out to be their DC. That’s ridiculous. He’s been a HC now for 20 some years.

I guess if he wants to retire because he doesn’t like a little criticism ok but I don’t foresee anyone walking away from that kind of money. It’s not like he’s 75 or something, so that’s an equally ridiculous fear. If you think this criticism is bad try looking at the criticism that major coaches endure. Not exactly Cowboy Tough. So we shouldn’t criticize (rightfully) the offense on the field that the HC is ultimately responsible for out of some fear that our HC (who has a losing record) is going to walk away from years and years of guaranteed money? Please stop with this nonsense. Nobody is saying he should be fired.

I've seen literally no one say that Bohl shouldn't be subject to criticism.

I've seen multiple posters say that personnel decisions should be left to Bohl and no one else should dictate who he chooses for his staff.

Believe it to be nonsense but the moment Bohl is micromanaged he is gone.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

LOL Bohl already had his shot at a P5 coordinator job and it didn’t pan out. Some P5 isn’t buying him out to be their DC. That’s ridiculous. He’s been a HC now for 20 some years.

I guess if he wants to retire because he doesn’t like a little criticism ok but I don’t foresee anyone walking away from that kind of money. It’s not like he’s 75 or something, so that’s an equally ridiculous fear. If you think this criticism is bad try looking at the criticism that major coaches endure. Not exactly Cowboy Tough. So we shouldn’t criticize (rightfully) the offense on the field that the HC is ultimately responsible for out of some fear that our HC (who has a losing record) is going to walk away from years and years of guaranteed money? Please stop with this nonsense. Nobody is saying he should be fired.

I've seen literally no one say that Bohl shouldn't be subject to criticism.

I've seen multiple posters say that personnel decisions should be left to Bohl and no one else should dictate who he chooses for his staff.

Believe it to be nonsense but the moment Bohl is micromanaged he is gone.

Haha.... Thats ridiculous. Bohl does not come off as that thin skinned.

And more importantly, how is someone like Tom Burman telling Bohl his offense is putrid and wholly unacceptable micromanaging? It's the truth.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

I got it. Vigen for assistant AD.

Seriously, Bohl is responsible for his staff. If he thinks Vigen is fine, then so be it. Let's see if they can make the offense better. Josh Allen isn't on the roster. My biggest worry about criticism isn't Bohl leaving but Bohl sticking with Vigen another year just to "show" everyone. I don't think he's wired that way but his defense of the offense is a bit mind blowing.

I personally think Vigen is exactly like the Stanard situation. Good head coach too loyal to an offensive coordinator? Now where have I heard that story?

 

[JimmyDimes]

Love our power run game. Chambers is only a freshman and is showing signs of improvement when it comes to passing. The past couple coaches, even one who was supposed to be an offensive wizard, tried to implement a more passing oriented offense....they didn't work. But, hey, let's fire Vigen because we run the ball.

 

[Cornpoke]

Love our power run game. Chambers is only a freshman and is showing signs of improvement when it comes to passing. The past couple coaches, even one who was supposed to be an offensive wizard, tried to implement a more passing oriented offense....they didn't work. But, hey, let's fire Vigen because we run the ball.

I don't think anyone is upset that we run the ball. It's the suspect play calling in situations that do not lend well to sustained drives and the lack of variety when needed. I'm all for a power running game and that's been Bohl's philosophy back to his Nebraska days, except they could hang 50+ points on anyone

 

[fromolwyoming]

Love our power run game. Chambers is only a freshman and is showing signs of improvement when it comes to passing. The past couple coaches, even one who was supposed to be an offensive wizard, tried to implement a more passing oriented offense....they didn't work. But, hey, let's fire Vigen because we run the ball.

Running the ball is fine. But the regression our QBs go through while here is worrisome. Our inability to have a reliable (not great, but reliable) has handicapped our offense.

 

[CowboyNV]

LOL Bohl already had his shot at a P5 coordinator job and it didn’t pan out. Some P5 isn’t buying him out to be their DC. That’s ridiculous. He’s been a HC now for 20 some years.

I guess if he wants to retire because he doesn’t like a little criticism ok but I don’t foresee anyone walking away from that kind of money. It’s not like he’s 75 or something, so that’s an equally ridiculous fear. If you think this criticism is bad try looking at the criticism that major coaches endure. Not exactly Cowboy Tough. So we shouldn’t criticize (rightfully) the offense on the field that the HC is ultimately responsible for out of some fear that our HC (who has a losing record) is going to walk away from years and years of guaranteed money? Please stop with this nonsense. Nobody is saying he should be fired.

There were a lot of reasons, but watching Nebraska shit can Bo even though he averaged 9 wins a year should tell Bohl or any other coach who thinks they have it tough just how nasty this business can be. At the end of the day, it is a business - big business with millions of dollars at stake. Bohl gets paid a boatload of money, and criticism from his customers (the Wyoming fans) is part of the deal if they aren't happy with the product he puts forth. I don't know if Vigen is the issue, or if it's something else. I do know the buck stops with Bohl and if he can't handle a little criticism from the fans, then maybe he needs to slink back to North Dakota where's he's still worshiped like some god. I can tell you he's still doesn't have a .500 winning percentage at Wyoming (he's 34/39 for a .466), so that makes him below average in his performance over the past six years. Is he better than Dave, yeah by a hair (Dandy Dave left Wyoming with a .435 winning percentage). Bohl is a lot more solid of an individual with a way better track record and I'm not endorsing getting rid of him. But I'm all for putting a little heat on his ass because after all, he is the big Kahuna. :twocents:

 

[WestWYOPoke]

LOL Bohl already had his shot at a P5 coordinator job and it didn’t pan out. Some P5 isn’t buying him out to be their DC. That’s ridiculous. He’s been a HC now for 20 some years.

I guess if he wants to retire because he doesn’t like a little criticism ok but I don’t foresee anyone walking away from that kind of money. It’s not like he’s 75 or something, so that’s an equally ridiculous fear. If you think this criticism is bad try looking at the criticism that major coaches endure. Not exactly Cowboy Tough. So we shouldn’t criticize (rightfully) the offense on the field that the HC is ultimately responsible for out of some fear that our HC (who has a losing record) is going to walk away from years and years of guaranteed money? Please stop with this nonsense. Nobody is saying he should be fired.

I've seen literally no one say that Bohl shouldn't be subject to criticism.

I've seen multiple posters say that personnel decisions should be left to Bohl and no one else should dictate who he chooses for his staff.

Believe it to be nonsense but the moment Bohl is micromanaged he is gone.

Haha.... Thats ridiculous. Bohl does not come off as that thin skinned.

And more importantly, how is someone like Tom Burman telling Bohl his offense is putrid and wholly unacceptable micromanaging? It's the truth.

There's a big difference between being thin-skinned and having pride in running your program the way you see fit without being micromanaged.

No one should have a problem with Bohl being criticized. I'm just saying that if Burman starts dictating Bohl's staff, Bohl will NOT be ok with that.

 

[SheepSlayer]

Love our power run game. Chambers is only a freshman and is showing signs of improvement when it comes to passing. The past couple coaches, even one who was supposed to be an offensive wizard, tried to implement a more passing oriented offense....they didn't work. But, hey, let's fire Vigen because we run the ball.

"Love our power run game."

Haven't seen a single comment disagreeing with that sentiment. That was one of the biggest complaints with Dave was that even in short yardage goal line situations we would stay in shotgun and try something fancy. Vigen has a power run game on 1st and 2nd down no matter what the defense shows. And as long as that has at least mediocre success it is a good strategy and will eventually wear down the defense. But calling dive left and dive right can be done by anybody with access to a headset. Situational play calls in crucial situations are where OCs make their money. No, he did not call "scramble backwards 20 yards and fumble" or "roll out and throw across your body to the defense", but he did call a jet sweep on 4th and 1 from the 2 yard line at a time where we were dominating in every aspect of the game besides the scoreboard. Who knows how the game turns out if we got out to a 17-0 lead and broke their spirit. He also calls a flea flicker at the 25 yard line where by the time the QB gets the ball back the WR could already have run to the locker room and the defense has had more than enough time to recover. As a result we only had two downs to get a first down and at least get into better field position or possibly score a TD. These are just two glaring examples from recent games that had a slightly worse than 0% chance of success. Most Wyoming fans love the power run game and would be upset if Vigen were to go and we brought in an air raid OC, we just want someone to give our players a chance to succeed. If the players then make a mistake, that we can live with.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

LOL Bohl already had his shot at a P5 coordinator job and it didn’t pan out. Some P5 isn’t buying him out to be their DC. That’s ridiculous. He’s been a HC now for 20 some years.

I guess if he wants to retire because he doesn’t like a little criticism ok but I don’t foresee anyone walking away from that kind of money. It’s not like he’s 75 or something, so that’s an equally ridiculous fear. If you think this criticism is bad try looking at the criticism that major coaches endure. Not exactly Cowboy Tough. So we shouldn’t criticize (rightfully) the offense on the field that the HC is ultimately responsible for out of some fear that our HC (who has a losing record) is going to walk away from years and years of guaranteed money? Please stop with this nonsense. Nobody is saying he should be fired.

I've seen literally no one say that Bohl shouldn't be subject to criticism.

I've seen multiple posters say that personnel decisions should be left to Bohl and no one else should dictate who he chooses for his staff.

Believe it to be nonsense but the moment Bohl is micromanaged he is gone.

Haha.... Thats ridiculous. Bohl does not come off as that thin skinned.

And more importantly, how is someone like Tom Burman telling Bohl his offense is putrid and wholly unacceptable micromanaging? It's the truth.

There's a big difference between being thin-skinned and having pride in running your program the way you see fit without being micromanaged.

No one should have a problem with Bohl being criticized. I'm just saying that if Burman starts dictating Bohl's staff, Bohl will NOT be ok with that.

I don't understand how potentially addressing the issue of Bohl-led UW teams consistently having AWFUL offenses is micromanaging, but if it is than micromanage away. There is no excuse for being one of the worst offensive teams in the country in year 5. Anyone defending this offense or running interference for Bohl claiming he shouldn't be held responsible or have to answer for this offense and his insistence on deflecting blame from Vigen is crazy to me.

The amount of posters on this board who are excited for another bowl of "Good Enough" is scary. I love the Cowboys but casual mediocrity is not something I am interested in. The whole argument of "well look where we were 5 years ago blah blah blah" seems so strange to me. This team is SO close to being special but are being sabotaged from within. To claim anything else is Bohl/Vigen homerism and not being objective to the situation.

 

[WestWYOPoke]

I've seen literally no one say that Bohl shouldn't be subject to criticism.

I've seen multiple posters say that personnel decisions should be left to Bohl and no one else should dictate who he chooses for his staff.

Believe it to be nonsense but the moment Bohl is micromanaged he is gone.

Haha.... Thats ridiculous. Bohl does not come off as that thin skinned.

And more importantly, how is someone like Tom Burman telling Bohl his offense is putrid and wholly unacceptable micromanaging? It's the truth.

There's a big difference between being thin-skinned and having pride in running your program the way you see fit without being micromanaged.

No one should have a problem with Bohl being criticized. I'm just saying that if Burman starts dictating Bohl's staff, Bohl will NOT be ok with that.

I don't understand how potentially addressing the issue of Bohl-led UW teams consistently having AWFUL offenses is micromanaging, but if it is than micromanage away. There is no excuse for being one of the worst offensive teams in the country in year 5. Anyone defending this offense or running interference for Bohl claiming he shouldn't be held responsible or have to answer for this offense and his insistence on deflecting blame from Vigen is crazy to me.

The amount of posters on this board who are excited for another bowl of "Good Enough" is scary. I love the Cowboys but casual mediocrity is not something I am interested in. The whole argument of "well look where we were 5 years ago blah blah blah" seems so strange to me. This team is SO close to being special but are being sabotaged from within. To claim anything else is Bohl/Vigen homerism and not being objective to the situation.

No one here is saying it's ok for the offense to stay the way it is. I think EVERYONE would agree that something needs to change. Whether that is in philosophy, personnel, staff, whatever...

What we ARE trying to say is that the answer is NOT having the AD or admin force Bohl to fire someone. There are plenty of ways to change things up, but forcing the matter may lead to something that no one wants.

 

[laxwyo]

I mean, we can all scratch our heads about some play calls but to say play calling is suspect, like any of us know anything, is asinine. I also believe those people are wankers. If the jet sweep scored a td, we all whoop and holler for catching them off guard by not running up the gut. Frankly, it’s all about Ws and we’ve dropped two extremely close games.