Vernon Transferring

[BackHarlowRoad]

I don't get why people think we are ever going to be a big rebounding team.
It isn't Coach Shy's style.
It sucks when we get beat on offensive boards, but our team always puts up the shot then gets back on D.
The fact our defense is among the best in the country should show you that.

Look at Florida, they are not a high powered rebounding team either, yet they are #1 in the country.

Coach Shy's coaching style is to not crash the offensive boards. We all understand that and accept it. It works.

The problem is that we GIVE UP so many offensive boards. Great defense is absolutely pointless if you don't get the ball back. 95% of the time, if a team gets 20 more shots than you do, you lose. We beat SDSU with that stat but had to shoot 60% from the floor to do it.

I don't like the chances of relying on shooting 60% from the floor to win games.

 

[BeaverPoke]

I don't get why people think we are ever going to be a big rebounding team.
It isn't Coach Shy's style.
It sucks when we get beat on offensive boards, but our team always puts up the shot then gets back on D.
The fact our defense is among the best in the country should show you that.

Look at Florida, they are not a high powered rebounding team either, yet they are #1 in the country.

Coach Shy's coaching style is to not crash the offensive boards. We all understand that and accept it. It works.

The problem is that we GIVE UP so many offensive boards. Great defense is absolutely pointless if you don't get the ball back. 95% of the time, if a team gets 20 more shots than you do, you lose. We beat SDSU with that stat but had to shoot 60% from the floor to do it.

I don't like the chances of relying on shooting 60% from the floor to win games.

I will agree with that.
Is it just me or does it seem like there are a lot of long rebounds because we do force so many bad shots? Rebounds that go over everyone's heads.
I know that isn't the reason we consistently get beat on the glass, but I think it might be part of the problem.

 

[laxwyo]

I'm more upset that he took a scholly of someone else who could have been using his redshirt year to be getting bigger stronger and smarter

 

[PotatoCreekPete]

I'm more upset that he took a scholly of someone else who could have been using his redshirt year to be getting bigger stronger and smarter

I totally agree with your feelings. This kid essentially got away with taking $20,000 or so from the taxpayers of Wyoming for free. The kid comes here, sits on the bench, doesn't have to play, gets to use the weight training and other facilities of the athletic department. Uses his year to become stronger and more mature and gets free education along with books, room and board....and then takes all that he has gotten from Wyoming while giving nothing on the court and leaves for Northern Arizona. I understand that you take this risk in collegiate sports but it doesn't have to make me happy to see us (taxpayers of Wyoming) pour so much resources and investments into this young man and see him take it all to another school without giving back to Wyoming. It is what it is, I don't know if it was a recruiting mistake on Shyatt's part or just an immature young man who does not feel that his commitment is important or someone did something to him...it really isn't important now as he has already made his decision and he is basically 'down the road'....but the situation still doesn't make me happy to see so much poured into this young man's development and see it all go to waste. Wyoming just can't have so many wasted scholarship years.

I am truly aware of the depths that the program was in when Shyatt took over. But literally we have 6 years of wasted scholarship investments in 3 players IMO, and when we have such lack of depth those type of mistakes, or what ever you want to call them makes it very hard for a program like Wyoming's to be able to be successful. We have 3 years of wasted scholarship on Seller's, we have two years of wasted scholarship on Haldorson and 1 year wasted scholarship on Vernon. If you are going to invest redshirt scholarships on players or just years of having a player sitting on the bench you must see some actual productivity of the player sometime during their stay in Laramie. Anyway that you cut it, Seller's was (athletically speaking only) a total waste of a scholarship, poor decision to ever offer a scholarship to him and signing him should not be looked at in a good light IMO. Haldorson, despite this ONE game, last game against CSU, has been a total waste of scholarship, and his future is highly in doubt....will he take a redshirt or not? If he refuses another redshirt IMO he should be asked to look for another program. We must have more productivity out of our scholarships, especially when you are only talking a total of 13 for the whole team. Football can get away much easier with taking risks and making a few mistakes when you are talking 85 total scholarships available. But when you are talking 13 total scholarships, mistakes like Seller's, Haldorson and Vernon can't be hidden and just stick out like a sore thumb.

On a more positive note, Barnes looks like the real deal and I am extremely excited to see him at UW, I see the distinct possibility of challenging for a conference championship with him down the road. I just hope that Nance comes back better than ever, and if anyone can do it, he can.

Maybe we can break the jinx and stop the conference losing record at 11 seasons in a row next year. GO POKES!

 

[kansasCowboy]

I too, think we've had too much attrition here. But honestly, I think it's more on the kids, not coaches. I read an article about transfers and how the total number of transfers has gone up drastically just within the last ten years. That just proves to me that most kids are prone to instant gratification. Almost every kid coming in thinks he should be "The Guy". And when they don't get that opportunity. Or find out that they actually aren't "The Guy", forget redahirting and progressing to be the next big thing at the school they initially chose. No, they would prefer to transfer, because the think the grass in greener elsewhere. But the vast majority of transfers rarely get the great opportunity elsewhere as well. M'Baye comes to mind. I think he would've been amazing in Shyatts first year, probably better numbers than Washington, but he chooses OU and becomes a sixth man avging 10 ppg. Most of our transfers ended up transferring to smaller schools so they could become "The Guy". AJ Davis to What was it, Western Illinois... Jackson to Southern Illinois. And now Vernon to lil ol Northern Arizona.
Back in the 90's and early 2k's I really don't remember many transfers from Wyoming. I remember Laddrell Whitehead in the mid 90's, and that was because he had off the court issues. Other than that, I can't think of anyone.
I think it is this up and coming generations mentality of "Give me now" that is screwing up not only Wyoming but the game in general.

And potato, I think 9-9, even though it's .500, breaks the losing trend.

 

[NowherePoke]

I too, think we've had too much attrition here. But honestly, I think it's more on the kids, not coaches. I read an article about transfers and how the total number of transfers has gone up drastically just within the last ten years. That just proves to me that most kids are prone to instant gratification. Almost every kid coming in thinks he should be "The Guy". And when they don't get that opportunity. Or find out that they actually aren't "The Guy", forget redahirting and progressing to be the next big thing at the school they initially chose. No, they would prefer to transfer, because the think the grass in greener elsewhere. But the vast majority of transfers rarely get the great opportunity elsewhere as well. M'Baye comes to mind. I think he would've been amazing in Shyatts first year, probably better numbers than Washington, but he chooses OU and becomes a sixth man avging 10 ppg. Most of our transfers ended up transferring to smaller schools so they could become "The Guy". AJ Davis to What was it, Western Illinois... Jackson to Southern Illinois. And now Vernon to lil ol Northern Arizona.
Back in the 90's and early 2k's I really don't remember many transfers from Wyoming. I remember Laddrell Whitehead in the mid 90's, and that was because he had off the court issues. Other than that, I can't think of anyone.
I think it is this up and coming generations mentality of "Give me now" that is screwing up not only Wyoming but the game in general.

AJ Davis went to James Madison. They played in the NCAA tournament his senior year.


There were plenty of transfers in and out back in the late 90's, early 00's, we just don't remember them much like we won't remember Keonta Vernon in 15 years. A brief list:

Faysel Akacem (2000)
Aaron Abrams (2000)
Pasha Baines (1999) - Had a lot of hype, didn't live up to it. Originally recruited by Shyatt.
Sam Brinson (1997)
Brandon Dickerson (2002)
Supo Jegede (2003)
Scottie Vines (2001) - Sort of different as he switched to football, good decision for him. Ridiculous athlete and dunker that could not shoot.




There were some later in McClain's tenure as well such as Lawal, Henson, Henry, Forman, Watson, etc.

Incoming transfers included Ledarion Jones, David Adams, Paris Corner, Ryan Wildenborg, etc.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

Makes sense. Without this message board I would know nothing about incoming recruits. I am much more aware of the athletes I don't see on the court anymore. Earlier if I never saw them play, I didn't know they existed.

 

[Wyolie Coyote]

I too, think we've had too much attrition here. But honestly, I think it's more on the kids, not coaches. I read an article about transfers and how the total number of transfers has gone up drastically just within the last ten years. That just proves to me that most kids are prone to instant gratification. Almost every kid coming in thinks he should be "The Guy". And when they don't get that opportunity. Or find out that they actually aren't "The Guy", forget redahirting and progressing to be the next big thing at the school they initially chose. No, they would prefer to transfer, because the think the grass in greener elsewhere. But the vast majority of transfers rarely get the great opportunity elsewhere as well. M'Baye comes to mind. I think he would've been amazing in Shyatts first year, probably better numbers than Washington, but he chooses OU and becomes a sixth man avging 10 ppg. Most of our transfers ended up transferring to smaller schools so they could become "The Guy". AJ Davis to What was it, Western Illinois... Jackson to Southern Illinois. And now Vernon to lil ol Northern Arizona.
Back in the 90's and early 2k's I really don't remember many transfers from Wyoming. I remember Laddrell Whitehead in the mid 90's, and that was because he had off the court issues. Other than that, I can't think of anyone.
I think it is this up and coming generations mentality of "Give me now" that is screwing up not only Wyoming but the game in general.

AJ Davis went to James Madison. They played in the NCAA tournament his senior year.


There were plenty of transfers in and out back in the late 90's, early 00's, we just don't remember them much like we won't remember Keonta Vernon in 15 years. A brief list:

Faysel Akacem (2000)
Aaron Abrams (2000)
Pasha Baines (1999) - Had a lot of hype, didn't live up to it. Originally recruited by Shyatt.
Sam Brinson (1997)
Brandon Dickerson (2002)
Supo Jegede (2003)
Scottie Vines (2001) - Sort of different as he switched to football, good decision for him. Ridiculous athlete and dunker that could not shoot.




There were some later in McClain's tenure as well such as Lawal, Henson, Henry, Forman, Watson, etc.

Incoming transfers included Ledarion Jones, David Adams, Paris Corner, Ryan Wildenborg, etc.

Didn't programs get penalized for too much turnover in the 90's? Seemed like there were restrictions on how many scholarships you could give out over a 3 year period. Those restrictions were lifted and transferring became much more prevalent.

 

[NowherePoke]

I too, think we've had too much attrition here. But honestly, I think it's more on the kids, not coaches. I read an article about transfers and how the total number of transfers has gone up drastically just within the last ten years. That just proves to me that most kids are prone to instant gratification. Almost every kid coming in thinks he should be "The Guy". And when they don't get that opportunity. Or find out that they actually aren't "The Guy", forget redahirting and progressing to be the next big thing at the school they initially chose. No, they would prefer to transfer, because the think the grass in greener elsewhere. But the vast majority of transfers rarely get the great opportunity elsewhere as well. M'Baye comes to mind. I think he would've been amazing in Shyatts first year, probably better numbers than Washington, but he chooses OU and becomes a sixth man avging 10 ppg. Most of our transfers ended up transferring to smaller schools so they could become "The Guy". AJ Davis to What was it, Western Illinois... Jackson to Southern Illinois. And now Vernon to lil ol Northern Arizona.
Back in the 90's and early 2k's I really don't remember many transfers from Wyoming. I remember Laddrell Whitehead in the mid 90's, and that was because he had off the court issues. Other than that, I can't think of anyone.
I think it is this up and coming generations mentality of "Give me now" that is screwing up not only Wyoming but the game in general.

AJ Davis went to James Madison. They played in the NCAA tournament his senior year.


There were plenty of transfers in and out back in the late 90's, early 00's, we just don't remember them much like we won't remember Keonta Vernon in 15 years. A brief list:

Faysel Akacem (2000)
Aaron Abrams (2000)
Pasha Baines (1999) - Had a lot of hype, didn't live up to it. Originally recruited by Shyatt.
Sam Brinson (1997)
Brandon Dickerson (2002)
Supo Jegede (2003)
Scottie Vines (2001) - Sort of different as he switched to football, good decision for him. Ridiculous athlete and dunker that could not shoot.




There were some later in McClain's tenure as well such as Lawal, Henson, Henry, Forman, Watson, etc.

Incoming transfers included Ledarion Jones, David Adams, Paris Corner, Ryan Wildenborg, etc.

Didn't programs get penalized for too much turnover in the 90's? Seemed like there were restrictions on how many scholarships you could give out over a 3 year period. Those restrictions were lifted and transferring became much more prevalent.

Excellent point. Yes, the elimination of the 5/8 rule really unleashed the transfer wave. That probably had more to do with the relative increase in transfers than anything else. The rule was that you could only sign 5 players in any one year and 8 in any two year period. So, if you had a lot of turnover you would end up with less than 13 scholarships filled. McClain ran into this for one year or so before it was lifted.

The graduate transfer rule has also had an impact. Guys like Kevin Kruger, Jerron Granberry, Josh Davis (SDSU), would never have been able to transfer prior to that rule that allows players that have graduated to transfer to another institution without sitting a year if they enroll in a field of study/degree program that is not offered at their previous institution.


Basically, it isn't really a function of "kids these days", but rather simply an expansion of an activity that was common before and is now easier due to rule changes.

 

[stymeman]

I've got an idea, let's get kids that want to be here and can contribute from the beginning!!!

 

[kansasCowboy]

I've got an idea, let's get kids that want to be here and can contribute from the beginning!!!

The best part of D Cookes interview, he tells what Shyatt told him when he was being recruited.
"If you want to go to college and have fun, this is probably not the place for you. But, if you want to go to college, become a better basketball player, you can't get a better place."

Is say that's going for the players that would want to be here.

 

[Wyo2dal]

I don't get why people think we are ever going to be a big rebounding team.
It isn't Coach Shy's style.
It sucks when we get beat on offensive boards, but our team always puts up the shot then gets back on D.
The fact our defense is among the best in the country should show you that.

Look at Florida, they are not a high powered rebounding team either, yet they are #1 in the country.

 

[Wyolie Coyote]

Excellent point. Yes, the elimination of the 5/8 rule really unleashed the transfer wave. That probably had more to do with the relative increase in transfers than anything else. The rule was that you could only sign 5 players in any one year and 8 in any two year period. So, if you had a lot of turnover you would end up with less than 13 scholarships filled. McClain ran into this for one year or so before it was lifted.

The graduate transfer rule has also had an impact. Guys like Kevin Kruger, Jerron Granberry, Josh Davis (SDSU), would never have been able to transfer prior to that rule that allows players that have graduated to transfer to another institution without sitting a year if they enroll in a field of study/degree program that is not offered at their previous institution.


Basically, it isn't really a function of "kids these days", but rather simply an expansion of an activity that was common before and is now easier due to rule changes.

Ah yes, the 5/8 rule. I knew it was a factor a few years ago. I remember McClain getting into a bind with it also. Lifting that rule and allowing a graduating senior to transfer have dramatically increased the number of transfers that you see across major college basketball. Lots and lots of turnover on rosters.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

I don't get why people think we are ever going to be a big rebounding team.
It isn't Coach Shy's style.
It sucks when we get beat on offensive boards, but our team always puts up the shot then gets back on D.
The fact our defense is among the best in the country should show you that.

Look at Florida, they are not a high powered rebounding team either, yet they are #1 in the country.

Haha, that post was almost 2 weeks ago. Poor execution on the timing....

 

[Wyo2dal]

I avoided the forums for a while sometimes you just have to lol.

 

[BeaverPoke]

Whoever said something about losing conference record for 11 straight years...check the standings...we don't have a losing record in conference play.

 

[Bryoming]

Looks like the rumors were true. It's a shame that he's leaving. I think we all had high hopes for him.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/mikevorel/status/448511493500190720[/tweet]

 

[PotatoCreekPete]

Whoever said something about losing conference record for 11 straight years...check the standings...we don't have a losing record in conference play.

We also don't have a winning record for the last 11 years. Ten years of losing and one year of a tie, but not one year in the last 11 where Wyoming has had a winning record in the conference.

 

[NowherePoke]

Whoever said something about losing conference record for 11 straight years...check the standings...we don't have a losing record in conference play.

We also don't have a winning record for the last 11 years. Ten years of losing and one year of a tie, but not one year in the last 11 where Wyoming has had a winning record in the conference.

Well, 9 years of losing and 2 years of .500 if you want to be precise about it..

 

[PotatoCreekPete]

Whoever said something about losing conference record for 11 straight years...check the standings...we don't have a losing record in conference play.

We also don't have a winning record for the last 11 years. Ten years of losing and one year of a tie, but not one year in the last 11 where Wyoming has had a winning record in the conference.

Well, 9 years of losing and 2 years of .500 if you want to be precise about it..

Yes, let us be precise.