UW@UNM in da Pit

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Plus, James is a complete offensive player. There is nothing on offense that he isn't good at.

Including turning the ball over. 11 assists, 14 turnovers in 7 MW games. I don't care how many points the kid can score, that has to change!

So who's the better alternative? I'm with you, the turnovers hurt for sure, but who is a more viable option? Kelley? Liebs? Adams? Marshall? I just don't see anyone as talented or dangerous as him. Adams is close, but I would rather see Adams and James on the floor together

 

[NowherePoke]

Plus, James is a complete offensive player. There is nothing on offense that he isn't good at.

Including turning the ball over. 11 assists, 14 turnovers in 7 MW games. I don't care how many points the kid can score, that has to change!

Let's compare a few numbers shall we:

Player A: A/TO Ratio = 0.8. 17.7 PPG in 31.2 MPG, True Shooting Percentage = 55.8%

Player B: A/TO Ratio = 1.0, 18.2 PPG in 29.9 MPG, True Shooting Percentage = 55.5%

Player C: A/TO Ratio = 0.8, 14.9 PPG in 23.5 MPG, True Shooting Percentage = 57.0%

Player D: A/TO Ratio = 0.8, 14.3 PPG in 30.5 MPG, True Shooting Percentage = 55.4%



Players A, B, and D are likely MWC First Team All-MWC selections. Player C is a bench player for a 8th place team.

Player D isn't really a fair comparison as they play a different position. The other two? Both perimeter players. Should Leon Rice bench Chandler Hutchison because he has a negative A/TO Ratio? What about Neal and Elijah Brown? If James had 3 more assists over the last 7 games would he be worthy of playing time in your estimation?



I don't mean to minimize the impact of turnovers, but this UW team turns the ball over quite a bit and James is far from the main culprit. One of the things that standard stats tends to miss is the usage level of a player. KenPom tries to measure that by looking at overall possessions used (where that player has a shot, assist, turnover, etc.). This is important, because a player that is a go to option will likely have more turnovers than a role player. Someone like Larry Nance would have more raw turnovers than Derek Cooke, but if you adjust that for usage rate you would see that Cooke actually had the higher TO rate.

I bring this up to point out that according to KenPom's statistics (which are adjusted for usage, tempo, etc.), James has a TO rate that is lower than Herndon, Gorski, Kelley, Lieberman, Moemeka, Dalton, etc. Only JMac and Naughton have lower overall TO rates than James.

None of these stats are perfect of course, but any big picture look at our team would indicate that Justin James, even with the turnovers, is the most productive player on the roster. Combine that with the "eye test" and almost any impartial observer would identify as James as one of the best 2 or 3 players on the roster if not the best (which he is IMO). You would be very hard pressed to find a player with similar productivity and usage that plays so few minutes.

 

[stymeman]

not very good at all, we may win the rest of our games at home which will put us at 19 win mark and maybe steal one on road to go 20, but there's NO way we have any way to be NCAA tourney caliber, unless we know what, I just don't see it this year.

 

[LanderPoke]

Plus, James is a complete offensive player. There is nothing on offense that he isn't good at.

Including turning the ball over. 11 assists, 14 turnovers in 7 MW games. I don't care how many points the kid can score, that has to change!

Let's compare a few numbers shall we:

Player A: A/TO Ratio = 0.8. 17.7 PPG in 31.2 MPG, True Shooting Percentage = 55.8%

Player B: A/TO Ratio = 1.0, 18.2 PPG in 29.9 MPG, True Shooting Percentage = 55.5%

Player C: A/TO Ratio = 0.8, 14.9 PPG in 23.5 MPG, True Shooting Percentage = 57.0%

Player D: A/TO Ratio = 0.8, 14.3 PPG in 30.5 MPG, True Shooting Percentage = 55.4%



Players A, B, and D are likely MWC First Team All-MWC selections. Player C is a bench player for a 8th place team.

Player D isn't really a fair comparison as they play a different position. The other two? Both perimeter players. Should Leon Rice bench Chandler Hutchison because he has a negative A/TO Ratio? What about Neal and Elijah Brown? If James had 3 more assists over the last 7 games would he be worthy of playing time in your estimation?



I don't mean to minimize the impact of turnovers, but this UW team turns the ball over quite a bit and James is far from the main culprit. One of the things that standard stats tends to miss is the usage level of a player. KenPom tries to measure that by looking at overall possessions used (where that player has a shot, assist, turnover, etc.). This is important, because a player that is a go to option will likely have more turnovers than a role player. Someone like Larry Nance would have more raw turnovers than Derek Cooke, but if you adjust that for usage rate you would see that Cooke actually had the higher TO rate.

I bring this up to point out that according to KenPom's statistics (which are adjusted for usage, tempo, etc.), James has a TO rate that is lower than Herndon, Gorski, Kelley, Lieberman, Moemeka, Dalton, etc. Only JMac and Naughton have lower overall TO rates than James.

None of these stats are perfect of course, but any big picture look at our team would indicate that Justin James, even with the turnovers, is the most productive player on the roster. Combine that with the "eye test" and almost any impartial observer would identify as James as one of the best 2 or 3 players on the roster if not the best (which he is IMO). You would be very hard pressed to find a player with similar productivity and usage that plays so few minutes.

Good stuff. Really highlights how much the staff has botched this year. What more does a guy have to do to get more playing time?

 

[POKE FAN]

This discussion about James and turnovers is laughable. Justin more than makes up for it with steals, assists, blocked shots, rebounding and scoring ability when he's on the court.

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

I'm sad I missed this game because I was hyped for it but life work popped up. Sounds like more of the same issues. Having a guy go off for 30+ always makes for a tough night on the road. I will say I think we should be a little more positive on here. Nobody on the board expected us to win that game and it's never easy to get a win in the Pit. Sounds like they were in the game too until some miscues. This young team is still playing and being coached too erratic. Don't like seeing JJ with that little minutes unless there's a team issue I don't know about attitude, injury, etc......he's pretty much got to play until he fouls out. Biggest issue of the season is JMcMan going totally MIA in the MWC, when UW was looking threatening this year he was pouring in double digits

 

[joshvanklomp]

This discussion about James and turnovers is laughable. Justin more than makes up for it with steals, assists, blocked shots, rebounding and scoring ability when he's on the court.

If he more than made up for it, wouldn't he have more assists than turnovers?

Also, one other stat to look at is fouls committed. He's fouled out of three games. No one else on the team has fouled out more than once. Look closer at the wing rotation and you see why another James and Adams don't play as much as McManamen and Aka Gorski on most nights

McManamen 676/53 = Foul committed every 12.7 minutes
Aka Gorski 480/43 = Foul committed every 11.1 minutes
James 447/47 = Foul committed every 9.5 minutes
Adams 207/27 = Foul committed every 7.7 minutes

I think people are beginning to get an impression that I hate Justin James. That couldn't be further from the truth. Like many of you, he's one of my favorite players on the team. But that doesn't mean he's without fault. And while others on the team make mistakes too, I like a coach holding his best players to a higher standard. Don't let mistakes slide because someone has more talent. Some may see it as holding them back right now, but I see it as holding them accountable and trying to get the players to pride themselves on improving those areas. Edwards is looking at the bigger picture. Not just what's best for James and Wyoming today, but also going forward over the next 2.5 years.

 

[LanderPoke]

This discussion about James and turnovers is laughable. Justin more than makes up for it with steals, assists, blocked shots, rebounding and scoring ability when he's on the court.

If he more than made up for it, wouldn't he have more assists than turnovers?

Also, one other stat to look at is fouls committed. He's fouled out of three games. No one else on the team has fouled out more than once. Look closer at the wing rotation and you see why another James and Adams don't play as much as McManamen and Aka Gorski on most nights

McManamen 676/53 = Foul committed every 12.7 minutes
Aka Gorski 480/43 = Foul committed every 11.1 minutes
James 447/47 = Foul committed every 9.5 minutes
Adams 207/27 = Foul committed every 7.7 minutes

I think people are beginning to get an impression that I hate Justin James. That couldn't be further from the truth. Like many of you, he's one of my favorite players on the team. But that doesn't mean he's without fault. And while others on the team make mistakes too, I like a coach holding his best players to a higher standard. Don't let mistakes slide because someone has more talent. Some may see it as holding them back right now, but I see it as holding them accountable and trying to get the players to pride themselves on improving those areas. Edwards is looking at the bigger picture. Not just what's best for James and Wyoming today, but also going forward over the next 2.5 years.

I'm pretty sure what's best is to play your best players as much as possible. Something that Edwards is failing miserably at.

Maybe Edwards should bench Lieberman, Kelly and JMac for not being able to make a shot and not being able to get a rebound and not being able to get to the FT line and not being able to beat their guy off the drubble? You act like JAmes is the only one to make a mistake.

 

[stymeman]

My question is do we beat a bad UNLV team on Wednesday or are we having too many issues right now???

 

[Adv8RU12]

My question is do we beat a bad UNLV team on Wednesday or are we having too many issues right now???

If the Pokes don't win this one, then in my opinion it has to be directly on Edward's game-day mismanagement. In one-to-one player matchups, the Pokes are better.

 

[calpoke25]

This discussion about James and turnovers is laughable. Justin more than makes up for it with steals, assists, blocked shots, rebounding and scoring ability when he's on the court.

If he more than made up for it, wouldn't he have more assists than turnovers?

Also, one other stat to look at is fouls committed. He's fouled out of three games. No one else on the team has fouled out more than once. Look closer at the wing rotation and you see why another James and Adams don't play as much as McManamen and Aka Gorski on most nights

McManamen 676/53 = Foul committed every 12.7 minutes
Aka Gorski 480/43 = Foul committed every 11.1 minutes
James 447/47 = Foul committed every 9.5 minutes
Adams 207/27 = Foul committed every 7.7 minutes

I think people are beginning to get an impression that I hate Justin James. That couldn't be further from the truth. Like many of you, he's one of my favorite players on the team. But that doesn't mean he's without fault. And while others on the team make mistakes too, I like a coach holding his best players to a higher standard. Don't let mistakes slide because someone has more talent. Some may see it as holding them back right now, but I see it as holding them accountable and trying to get the players to pride themselves on improving those areas. Edwards is looking at the bigger picture. Not just what's best for James and Wyoming today, but also going forward over the next 2.5 years.

How is this relevant at all? Rate of fouls committed is now suddenly the stat you are reaching for? So James commits a foul 1 minute and 30 seconds faster than Gorski. This tells us what exactly?

 

[WyomingAg]

This discussion about James and turnovers is laughable. Justin more than makes up for it with steals, assists, blocked shots, rebounding and scoring ability when he's on the court.

If he more than made up for it, wouldn't he have more assists than turnovers?

Also, one other stat to look at is fouls committed. He's fouled out of three games. No one else on the team has fouled out more than once. Look closer at the wing rotation and you see why another James and Adams don't play as much as McManamen and Aka Gorski on most nights

McManamen 676/53 = Foul committed every 12.7 minutes
Aka Gorski 480/43 = Foul committed every 11.1 minutes
James 447/47 = Foul committed every 9.5 minutes
Adams 207/27 = Foul committed every 7.7 minutes

I think people are beginning to get an impression that I hate Justin James. That couldn't be further from the truth. Like many of you, he's one of my favorite players on the team. But that doesn't mean he's without fault. And while others on the team make mistakes too, I like a coach holding his best players to a higher standard. Don't let mistakes slide because someone has more talent. Some may see it as holding them back right now, but I see it as holding them accountable and trying to get the players to pride themselves on improving those areas. Edwards is looking at the bigger picture. Not just what's best for James and Wyoming today, but also going forward over the next 2.5 years.

Why doesn't coach hold JMac to the same higher standard. He is a senior, came into the year as the senior leader, scores 0 points in some ~30min against New Mexico and has a very low scoring average in MWC play. Where is the holding all players (including your senior leader) to the higher standard of accountability? It may take 3 extra minutes for him to foul but if we played 5 players exactly like him we would be lucky to score 10 points a game in MW game even though we might reduce free throws of the other team slightly.

 

['PokeForLife]

This discussion about James and turnovers is laughable. Justin more than makes up for it with steals, assists, blocked shots, rebounding and scoring ability when he's on the court.

If he more than made up for it, wouldn't he have more assists than turnovers?

Also, one other stat to look at is fouls committed. He's fouled out of three games. No one else on the team has fouled out more than once. Look closer at the wing rotation and you see why another James and Adams don't play as much as McManamen and Aka Gorski on most nights

McManamen 676/53 = Foul committed every 12.7 minutes
Aka Gorski 480/43 = Foul committed every 11.1 minutes
James 447/47 = Foul committed every 9.5 minutes
Adams 207/27 = Foul committed every 7.7 minutes

I think people are beginning to get an impression that I hate Justin James. That couldn't be further from the truth. Like many of you, he's one of my favorite players on the team. But that doesn't mean he's without fault. And while others on the team make mistakes too, I like a coach holding his best players to a higher standard. Don't let mistakes slide because someone has more talent. Some may see it as holding them back right now, but I see it as holding them accountable and trying to get the players to pride themselves on improving those areas. Edwards is looking at the bigger picture. Not just what's best for James and Wyoming today, but also going forward over the next 2.5 years.

I'm pretty sure what's best is to play your best players as much as possible. Something that Edwards is failing miserably at.

Maybe Edwards should bench Lieberman, Kelly and JMac for not being able to make a shot and not being able to get a rebound and not being able to get to the FT line and not being able to beat their guy off the drubble? You act like JAmes is the only one to make a mistake.

In my opinion, it is more valuable for JJ's development to get a lot of time on the floor. There is no better way to develop than good ol' repetition. Heck, if JJ really is good enough to be an all-conference player as some have posited, then there is absolutely no reason that he should not get all-conference time. It seems like level of play is not a factor in personnel decisions.

 

[joshvanklomp]

Some may see it as holding them back right now, but I see it as holding them accountable and trying to get the players to pride themselves on improving those areas. [/b]Edwards is looking at the bigger picture. Not just what's best for James and Wyoming today, but also going forward over the next 2.5 years.

Why doesn't coach hold JMac to the same higher standard.

Read the last sentence. Jason is a senior; Justin is a sophomore. It should be about more than just this year.

In my opinion, it is more valuable for JJ's development to get a lot of time on the floor. There is no better way to develop than good ol' repetition.

So a player's reward for making mistakes is more playing time? That doesn't make sense.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Some may see it as holding them back right now, but I see it as holding them accountable and trying to get the players to pride themselves on improving those areas. [/b]Edwards is looking at the bigger picture. Not just what's best for James and Wyoming today, but also going forward over the next 2.5 years.

Why doesn't coach hold JMac to the same higher standard.

Read the last sentence. Jason is a senior; Justin is a sophomore. It should be about more than just this year.

In my opinion, it is more valuable for JJ's development to get a lot of time on the floor. There is no better way to develop than good ol' repetition.

So a player's reward for making mistakes is more playing time? That doesn't make sense.

What doesn't make sense is your hard on for JJ and wanting to crucify him when he makes 1 mistake but you can turn a blind eye to literally anyone else even though JJ statistically outplays all but one... it's incredible.

 

[joshvanklomp]

What doesn't make sense is your hard on for JJ and wanting to crucify him when he makes 1 mistake but you can turn a blind eye to literally anyone else even though JJ statistically outplays all but one... it's incredible.

Sometimes a coach is hardest on the players he sees the most potential in. Because he knows the player can be so much better than what he's showing on the court at the moment.

 

[DVDA]

What doesn't make sense is your hard on for JJ and wanting to crucify him when he makes 1 mistake but you can turn a blind eye to literally anyone else even though JJ statistically outplays all but one... it's incredible.

Sometimes a coach is hardest on the players he sees the most potential in. Because he knows the player can be so much better than what he's showing on the court at the moment.

That doesn't have any effect on your irrational arguments against James. You're not even trying to play devil's advocate. You're just digging as deep as possible to find any shred of an argument for him not playing more. Objectively, he and Dalton are the two biggest impact players on this team. Sure they both need to play smarter, but they clearly make a positive difference when they are on the court. No other player on the roster consistently makes impact plays. Some guys have been so terrible that there is no logic behind them getting any minutes, let alone playing more than James and/or Dalton.

 

[LanderPoke]

What doesn't make sense is your hard on for JJ and wanting to crucify him when he makes 1 mistake but you can turn a blind eye to literally anyone else even though JJ statistically outplays all but one... it's incredible.

Sometimes a coach is hardest on the players he sees the most potential in. Because he knows the player can be so much better than what he's showing on the court at the moment.

Just like in Coach Carter

 

[TSpoke]

This discussion about James and turnovers is laughable. Justin more than makes up for it with steals, assists, blocked shots, rebounding and scoring ability when he's on the court.

If he more than made up for it, wouldn't he have more assists than turnovers?

Also, one other stat to look at is fouls committed. He's fouled out of three games. No one else on the team has fouled out more than once. Look closer at the wing rotation and you see why another James and Adams don't play as much as McManamen and Aka Gorski on most nights

McManamen 676/53 = Foul committed every 12.7 minutes
Aka Gorski 480/43 = Foul committed every 11.1 minutes
James 447/47 = Foul committed every 9.5 minutes
Adams 207/27 = Foul committed every 7.7 minutes

I think people are beginning to get an impression that I hate Justin James. That couldn't be further from the truth. Like many of you, he's one of my favorite players on the team. But that doesn't mean he's without fault. And while others on the team make mistakes too, I like a coach holding his best players to a higher standard. Don't let mistakes slide because someone has more talent. Some may see it as holding them back right now, but I see it as holding them accountable and trying to get the players to pride themselves on improving those areas. Edwards is looking at the bigger picture. Not just what's best for James and Wyoming today, but also going forward over the next 2.5 years.

How is this relevant at all? Rate of fouls committed is now suddenly the stat you are reaching for? So James commits a foul 1 minute and 30 seconds faster than Gorski. This tells us what exactly?

I believe he is saying that he gets into foul trouble which is one of the reasons he isn't getting as much playing time. There has been more than one game he comes in and picks up a couple quick fouls and had to come out. He wasn't using fouls as a way to say he didn't deserve time.(at least that's how I read it)

 

[bladerunnr]

Some may see it as holding them back right now, but I see it as holding them accountable and trying to get the players to pride themselves on improving those areas. [/b]Edwards is looking at the bigger picture. Not just what's best for James and Wyoming today, but also going forward over the next 2.5 years.

Why doesn't coach hold JMac to the same higher standard.

Read the last sentence. Jason is a senior; Justin is a sophomore. It should be about more than just this year.

In my opinion, it is more valuable for JJ's development to get a lot of time on the floor. There is no better way to develop than good ol' repetition.

So a player's reward for making mistakes is more playing time? That doesn't make sense.

The whole assist to turnover ratio is way overstated. It's not like LeBron throwing it out to Kevin Love for an open 3, it's Justin James throwing it out to an open Jmac who is almost certain to miss (at least in the MWC). It's pretty hard to have a lot of assists when most of your team mates shoot a low percentage.

This notion that Edwards is coaching for the future is pure horseshit. A coach may recruit for the future but the whole idea of competitive sports is to put the players on the court who help you win today. Can you imagine the coach that says "I sacrificed this game today so my sophomore guard will be better 2 years from now". Utter nonsense.

Finally, playing James more is not rewarding him for making mistakes. It's about playing the players who give you the best chance to win. If a player never penetrates and always just passes the ball around the perimeter, he might just not have any turnovers. I guess those kind of players are necessary, but they don't help you win games.

Anyone who watches this team knows that Justin James should be 1st or second in minutes played. I hope that Edwards will correct this in due course.