• Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your WyoNation.com experience today!

UW Superbowl Ad

Enrollment numbers over the past 40 years speak to this: in 1988 there were 12,499 students; 2000 had 11,807, 2015 had 12,627 and in 2024 UW had 10,813. It does not grow. The primary purpose of UW seems to be to provide high paying jobs for a select few individuals.
This trend along with Laramie's anemic population growth during a time when research universities and obscure university towns, like Ames, Iowa, were booming across America has long caused me concern about the University of Wyoming's long-term future.

I don't know that I lay this at President Siedel's feet, though. We were stuck in neutral long before he arrived.
 
How much land can wyoming manage? They haven't sold off much of their current state trust land. is there a magic number of acres wyoming couldn't manage? The recent Rock Springs RMP should definitely have most of us concerned about the feds locking us out of land in our own state. I love national forests. I love blm land. but there is a scenario where I imagine it being state owned and nothing changes except we're not being robbed blind and we can't generate revenue off our own lands.
as usual...where do I start with all the bullshit contained in your posts. Let's start with "can't generate revenue off our own lands". These federal lands are not our lands. When we were granted statehood we gave up any claim to the federal lands in our state. Explicitly. That was a term of our joining the union. Using your logic, your house is also "our lands" because it falls under the borders of our state. Pretty stupid when i put it that way, don't you think?

Next...what lands would you have been locked out of because of the prior Rock Springs RMP? What the hell do you even mean by that? You might actually have to walk to something that you could drive to before? You couldn't drive wherever you damn well please?

Are you aware that many states have balanced budget amendments? That's what makes it where most states can't manage more state lands. One bad fire year like we just had and they would have to be sold to balance the budget. Or I guess we could just let the whole damn state burn.

We haven't sold much of our lands already eh? Yeah...only like .7 million acres. That's only like 1000 square miles.

Every state is different....no shit Sherlock.

It's seriously exhausting trying to combat all the bullshit.
 
Next...what lands would you have been locked out of because of the prior Rock Springs RMP? What the hell do you even mean by that? You might actually have to walk to something that you could drive to before? You couldn't drive wherever you damn well please?
As a person that actively practices in this area, I can affirmatively answer that the Rock Springs RMP absolutely prevents energy development on 100s of thousands of private (largely checkerboard) and state lands (usually section 16 and 36 in every township) You can’t operate a gas project on private lands that are surrounded by federal lands on all sides if you can’t build pipelines across federal lands. You are wrong here.

Also - in horizontal drilling, economics usually only support projects with 2 mile laterals or longer. Our private and state lands are often 1 square mile. If we can’t drill through the adjacent federal lands, you can’t economically drill.

To be honest - I don’t know how someone says they support mineral revenues for schools at the same time saying they support the Rock Springs RMP and similar DOI actions. Wyoming gets 50% of the lease bonuses and royalties from federal land development. If you can’t develop (as in the Rock Springs RMP), that equals ZERO dollars.

So I think you’d help yourself if you’d pick a side. Are you for school funding or not? I am for public school funding. Those public school funds largely come from the mineral resources in this state and on federal lands.
 
Last edited:
Sure there is fat to trim, but it shouldn’t be at the mercy of kids or struggling families. The reductions they are making are designed to gut public education and social services resources.
I'll wait to see the end result before going too far. I think a lot of these things are largely symbolic. A state like WYO is unique. If you are right and public education/social service resources end, I'll get a pitchfork and torch with you. I just haven't seen enough to suspect that is the case yet.
 
as usual...where do I start with all the bullshit contained in your posts. Let's start with "can't generate revenue off our own lands". These federal lands are not our lands. When we were granted statehood we gave up any claim to the federal lands in our state. Explicitly. That was a term of our joining the union. Using your logic, your house is also "our lands" because it falls under the borders of our state. Pretty stupid when i put it that way, don't you think?

Next...what lands would you have been locked out of because of the prior Rock Springs RMP? What the hell do you even mean by that? You might actually have to walk to something that you could drive to before? You couldn't drive wherever you damn well please?

Are you aware that many states have balanced budget amendments? That's what makes it where most states can't manage more state lands. One bad fire year like we just had and they would have to be sold to balance the budget. Or I guess we could just let the whole damn state burn.

We haven't sold much of our lands already eh? Yeah...only like .7 million acres. That's only like 1000 square miles.

Every state is different....no shit Sherlock.

It's seriously exhausting trying to combat all the bullshit.
You're wrong on a couple things here. Oredigger lined one out. WOTUS was a major threat that hopefully will temper over the next little bit.

Your definition of US land is interesting. Technically, it was taken in war first. If it was purchased, it was purchased from someone who claims as a result of war. In other words, situations change. Having voters in NY or California dictating land policies in WYO, may not be the best policy.

Again, mental masturbation because the feds aren't giving up land or power. If you think the fed has your or the people's best interest in mind, well, go back to the discussion about US land and ask the original landholders.
 
Those public school funds largely come from the mineral resources in this state and on federal lands.

Pretty much all funding comes from that. The tax revenue then supports government jobs. Government jobs, Walmart, and mineral resources are the largest employers in WYO.
 
As a person that actively practices in this area, I can affirmatively answer that the Rock Springs RMP absolutely prevents energy development on 100s of thousands of private (largely checkerboard) and state lands (usually section 16 and 36 in every township) You can’t operate a gas project on private lands that are surrounded by federal lands on all sides if you can’t build pipelines across federal lands. You are wrong here.

Also - in horizontal drilling, economics usually only support projects with 2 mile laterals or longer. Our private and state lands are often 1 square mile. If we can’t drill through the adjacent federal lands, you can’t economically drill.

To be honest - I don’t know how someone says they support mineral revenues for schools at the same time saying they support the Rock Springs RMP and similar DOI actions. Wyoming gets 50% of the lease bonuses and royalties from federal land development. If you can’t develop (as in the Rock Springs RMP), that equals ZERO dollars.

So I think you’d help yourself if you’d pick a side. Are you for school funding or not? I am for public school funding. Those public school funds largely come from the mineral resources in this state and on federal lands.
Hell of a straw man you just beat up. Nice job.

Where did I say I supported the Rock Springs RMP. I didn't. I asked what he meant by locked out. I assumed he meant his ability to access the surface, since that was the context of our conversation, at least I thought.

Also, how much of that state and private land "can't be developed" because the state and private landowners don't own the mineral rights and don't have the right to force their will on lands that are owned by ALL Americans, not just the tiny tiny fraction of Americans who live in this state.

Kinda seems like your trying to take advantage of the fact that most people aren't landowners and therefor don't understand that surface ownership doesn't equal owning mineral rights and being able to do whatever you want with what's under the ground you own the surface of.

Where did I say I don't support money from mineral development going to our schools? That's right, I didn't. Here's a question for you. How much land is already leased in the Red Desert vs how much would be have been off limits to leasing?

Here's another question for you. Which President had the most domestic oil production of all time? Trump? Wrong...try Biden. But you knew that. Your just relying on the fact that your target audience in this straw man rant either don't know that or want to brush it under the rug cause it doesn't fit their world view.

On one point I was vague. When I said "federal lands are not our lands" I meant that federal lands are not the state of Wyomings lands like I thought he implied. Cause they're not. And again, surely you of all people understand that surface ownership doesn't have anything to do with who owns the mineral rights and who gets to decide how those are developed unless those surface owners are also the mineral right owners.

So if I wanted to drill on my land (hypothetically....I know I don't own the mineral rights), and the nearby federal land doesn't have a pipeline, cause it would be dumb as hell to put one there, should I stamp my feet and cry about it? Of course not. I can assure you that no one in their right mind wants a pipeline on the federal land I have easy access to. Right in a deer migration corridor, and the topography would be pretty damn limiting anyways, unless you wanted to build a pipeline that goes several thousand feet in elevation up a damn mountain in a pretty short horizontal distance.

If you want to talk about the finer points of where there should or shouldn't be a pipeline, we can have that conversation. We would probably agree on quite a few things. I can't stand the wasted natural gas that gets burned off cause it's not economical to get it to market, and I really can't stand the fact that zero royalties are paid on that wasted resource.

Does that mean we need to have pipelines everywhere someone wants to make a buck on mineral development? Should the fact that royalties help pay for our schools mean developers should able to develop wherever they want? Surely not. That's a nuanced discussion that will come down to values.

I'd prefer not to have new pipelines in critical wildlife habitat when we just broke a record for domestic oil production, under a Democrat no less. A energy exec that doesn't live in this state and doesn't give a rats ass about wildlife and wild places and wants to make another million is obviously going to feel differently.
 
Also, how much of that state and private land "can't be developed" because the state and private landowners don't own the mineral rights and don't have the right to force their will on lands that are owned by ALL Americans, not just the tiny tiny fraction of Americans who live in this state.
It could be argued that land isn't owned by the Feds. Perhaps not the state either.

Again, letting people in NY or CA dictate land policy in WY probably isn't smart.
 
It could be argued that land isn't owned by the Feds. Perhaps not the state either.

Again, letting people in NY or CA dictate land policy in WY probably isn't smart.
You could argue anything you want. Doesn't mean its gonna be a good argument. Which native American group would you say owns it? The ones that owned it before we took it through war? Or the ones that owned it before they took it through war? Or the ones before them....

Disagree with your second point also. Federal lands are owned by all Americans, plain and simple. Doesn't matter which state they live in, or whether you or I like the politics of their states. They all should have an equal say. The fact that those federal lands are within our state boundaries does not mean you or I should have more say in how they're managed than the guy that lives in CA. That'd just a fact. We don't always like it, but that's a fact. It's a public trust. It just is.
 
You could argue anything you want. Doesn't mean its gonna be a good argument. Which native American group would you say owns it? The ones that owned it before we took it through war? Or the ones that owned it before they took it through war? Or the ones before them....

Disagree with your second point also. Federal lands are owned by all Americans, plain and simple. Doesn't matter which state they live in, or whether you or I like the politics of their states. They all should have an equal say. The fact that those federal lands are within our state boundaries does not mean you or I should have more say in how they're owned. That'd just a fact. We don't always like it, but that's a fact.
Well, I'm glad you have confidence in the federal system. Most don't. You're getting a taste of being on the side not in power and you don't like it.

Only those that have been truly f'ed by the Feds understand it's not the side your on that's the problem. It's the fed
 
It could be argued that land isn't owned by the Feds. Perhaps not the state either.

Again, letting people in NY or CA dictate land policy in WY probably isn't smart.
You could argue anything you want. Doesn't mean its gonna be a good argument. Which native American group would you say owns it? The ones that owned it before we took it through war? Or the ones that owned it before they took it through war? Or the ones before them....

Disagree with your second point also. Federal lands are owned by all Americans, plain and simple. Doesn't matter which state they live in, or whether you or I like the politics of their states. They all should have an equal say. The fact that those federal lands are within our state boundaries does not mean you or I should have more say in how they're owned. That'd just a fact. We don't always like it, but that's a fact
Well, I'm glad you have confidence in the federal system. Most don't. You're getting a taste of being on the side not in power and you don't like it.

Only those that have been truly f'ed by the Feds understand it's not the side your on that's the problem. It's the fed
Putting words in my mouth again...

That's usually what people do when they can't factually refute anything you just said.
 
I don't have a "side". I'm letting simple, irrefutable facts guide my thinking. Two sides of an argument can often times be right about a lot of things, and wrong about a lot of things. The world is not black and white, despite the fact that simple minds desperately want that to be the case.
 
You could argue anything you want. Doesn't mean its gonna be a good argument. Which native American group would you say owns it? The ones that owned it before we took it through war? Or the ones that owned it before they took it through war? Or the ones before them....

Disagree with your second point also. Federal lands are owned by all Americans, plain and simple. Doesn't matter which state they live in, or whether you or I like the politics of their states. They all should have an equal say. The fact that those federal lands are within our state boundaries does not mean you or I should have more say in how they're owned. That'd just a fact. We don't always like it, but that's a fact

Putting words in my mouth again...

That's usually what people do when they can't factually refute anything you just said.
Refuting facts to the indoctrinated is generally futile. For example, everything you've said is mostly speculation. The Feds aren't turning over land or power so why debate it? You're just upset because they said mean words you don't agree with. There hasn't been an actual action other than the Feds shutting down mineral development in WYO and that's a fact
 
Refuting facts to the indoctrinated is generally futile. For example, everything you've said is mostly speculation. The Feds aren't turning over land or power so why debate it? You're just upset because they said mean words you don't agree with. There hasn't been an actual action other than the Feds shutting down mineral development in WYO and that's a fact
So which facts were wrong then? I'm all ears.
 
I get you love your fed overlords. I'm sure it makes you nervous when the fed house of cards is challenged. How much production from Biden-issued permits?
Strawman and all
you still didn't answer the simple yes or no question. Is it that hard?

Now, you wanna see some intellectual honesty. I don't know the answer to your question. You may have a point. It doesn't hurt that bad to admit it. You should try it sometime.

Do you know the answer? Or was that just a deflection?
 
How much production in any president's term was permitted by them? What is the norm there? Will you give credit to Trump for production that he didn't permit. You know damn well you will.
 
How much production in any president's term was permitted by them? What is the norm there? Will you give credit to Trump for production that he didn't permit. You know damn well you will.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top