To avoid derailing a thread, 5-6 years? Really?

[Wyo2dal]

Those are closer to realistic as there has only been one top 25 sighting in those 4+ years.

 

[Wyokie]

Competing for Conference Titles. There is no one on here that thinks it's going to be 5+ years to get to a Bowl Game and no one ever said that. But to be the top dog in the conference regularly and compete for a conference title yearly it will take that. Now outside of that we are likely to never see a NY6 Bowl.

I guess my point is that I don't expect a significant increase in competitiveness from years 3-4 to 5-6. I think by the time you hit that 4th year mark, you have a pretty good indication of where things are going to be.

Urban Meyer made immediate impacts and built a powerhouse in 2 short years at Utah. He laid a foundation that the Utes were able to sustain success.

Gary Patterson took 1 year at TCU then took that program to the top (a down year here or there but overall). It took him 2 short years to adjust to Big12 play.

With the limitations of our AD, I don't expect Bohl to do the same. Sans BSU, however, a lightning in the bottle hire should run roughshod over this conference in a few short years. Even a program that is destined to be a very solid program should establish itself in 3-4 years.

Those are schools that are easy to recruit to and have absolutely nothing in common with Wyoming and you can not use them to compare time frames. I do not for even one second believe any of those coaches could make Wyoming top 25 in the same 2-3 year time frame.

I seriously doubt some of the greatest coaches ever at the college level could turn Wyoming into a power within 2-3 years.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

I seriously doubt some of the greatest coaches ever at the college level could turn Wyoming into a power within 2-3 years.

Point being, looking back at the history of the MWC and the WAC, in general, a coach's 4th year or so is an indication of the program he builds. Look at Rocky, 4th year was 7-7 followed by 8-5. Really, that is where he stayed. Solid but never great.

On the flip side, there aren't many coaches that succeed after 4 years of little to no progress or an up year followed by a few down years (within the first 4).

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Those are closer to realistic as there has only been one top 25 sighting in those 4+ years.

Because they both left in 4 years or under.

 

[joshvanklomp]

I seriously doubt some of the greatest coaches ever at the college level could turn Wyoming into a power within 2-3 years.

Point being, looking back at the history of the MWC and the WAC, in general, a coach's 4th year or so is an indication of the program he builds. Look at Rocky, 4th year was 7-7 followed by 8-5. Really, that is where he stayed. Solid but never great.

On the flip side, there aren't many coaches that succeed after 4 years of little to no progress or an up year followed by a few down years (within the first 4).

4 years may be the start of the indication, but that's just one year. Success isn't sustained until years 5, 6 and beyond.

I don't want just a flash in the pan season, I want sustained success.

 

[Wyo2dal]

If we go to Bowl Games for the next 5 years counting this year and win them all yet we are still dealing with 2-3 star recruits and maintaining 7-5 and 8-4 records I won't be surprised or shocked even in a little bit.

The last time Wyoming was in the AP was 1996 we went 10-2 and topped out at 22. We haven't gone to back to back Bowl Games since 87-88.

Here is our coaching history, We haven't had success in a long time.

Bohl has a lot of work to do and it's not happening in 2-3 years. Consistent winning comes with consistent recruiting which is something we have never had the luxury of.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

A couple of other "case studies" from some of the BCS earning schools (other than BSU)...

NIU
J. Novak 4th year was 5-6. In 12 seasons, had several 6 and 7 win seasons along with 2 bowl bids and 1 10 win season. Schedules were very weak. Finished after a 2-10 season.

Replaced by J. Kill who was 10-2 in his 3rd season before moving on.

Hawaii
June Jones won 9 games, 3 games, 9 games, and 10 games in his first 4. Had a down season or two and then went on to a couple of 11 and 12 win seasons plus BCS bowl

Same coach at SMU only climbed to 8 wins by year 4 before a steady decline and 1 win season this last year.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Bohl has a lot of work to do and it's not happening in 2-3 years. Consistent winning comes with consistent recruiting which is something we have never had the luxury of.

Serious question, though, has any other WYO coach coached in a worse conference?

 

[JimmyDimes]

Bohl has a lot of work to do and it's not happening in 2-3 years. Consistent winning comes with consistent recruiting which is something we have never had the luxury of.

Serious question, though, has any other WYO coach coached in a worse conference?

No.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Last question and we'll have to chalk the rest up to agree to disagree :lol:

Is there an example of a coach in MWC or lower conference in "BCS-era" football that demonstrated 8 wins or fewer in for the first 4 years and then broke out to build a dynasty or perennially tough team?

I've listed several that built powers and all had good years by years 3-4.

No P5 coaches or FCS. G5 and FBS level only.

 

[WestWYOPoke]

Last question and we'll have to chalk the rest up to agree to disagree :lol:

Is there an example of a coach in MWC or lower conference in "BCS-era" football that demonstrated 8 wins or fewer in for the first 4 years and then broke out to build a dynasty or perennially tough team?

I've listed several that built powers and all had good years by years 3-4.

No P5 coaches or FCS. G5 and FBS level only.

There are probably a few examples. Off the top of my head I have to go with Frank Beamer at Virginia Tech. I know this might be a little older than what you are wanting as his first season was 1987, but it took him 7 years to ecclipse the 8 win mark.

His first 10 seasons at VT looked like this:
2-9
3-8
6-4-1
6-5
5-6
2-8-1
9-3
8-4
10-2
10-2

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Definitely a little older and pre-BCS. IMO, so much has changed since then, that it isn't really reflective of today's situation. For example, when he started, there wasn't internet, cell phones, or high school talent that there is today.

 

[McPeachy]

I get tempered enthusiasm, but I think Beaver and I are the only ones scratching our head at this. I do understand that it takes time to build a program, but for hell's sake, we are talking the MWC here. First, I do understand that it will be 5-6 years to build a T30-40 or so program that is consistent (if we should ever be so fortunate). However, there is no way in hell, IMO, that it should take 5-6 years to get to the T4 in the conference. I don't understand the rationale for that at all. Here is Scout's preseason:
31. Boise State
54. San Diego State
73. Nevada
74. Colorado State
79. Utah State
81. Fresno State
82. Air Force
103. New Mexico
104. Wyoming
110. San Jose State
119. Hawaii
121. UNLV

What is so damn daunting about that? Just why in the hell is it okay to take 5-6 years to be able to oust the likes of NM, CSU, Nevada, SDSU, etc.?

Sorry, I just don't think it should take 5-6 years to climb from nearly last to the top end of the BOTTOM HALF of college football.

5-6 years to be top half of the MWC...winning 7 & 8 games per season in other words. That isn't what my expectations are for Wyoming Football. I hope & think those aren't Bohl's expectations either.

5 - 6 years to get to the 10 / 11 / 12 wins per year level. That is always what I refer to, and what I believe. And it will take that long...

 

[kansasCowboy]

Bohl has a lot of work to do and it's not happening in 2-3 years. Consistent winning comes with consistent recruiting which is something we have never had the luxury of.

Serious question, though, has any other WYO coach coached in a worse conference?

No.

Yes. Look at our conference rundown in the 40's through the mid 70's. The Mountain conference, Rocky Mountain conf, I don't even remember the name of a few of the others because we changed and interchanged several times in a one to two year span. The. You had the WAC. The WAC was top heavy. BYU, Utah (on occasion), WYO and Utep were generally your top tier teams in the 80's and 90's. The 70's just remove us from the top, Utep wasn't in the conf yet and add Ariz St.
We were very weak.
The current MWC is looking like the Mid 90's WAC. We have one or two teams that generally stay in the top tier (BSU), and the mid tier is always changing from year to year. What I mean is , AFA can go anywhere between 2/10 wins a year. CSU can go anywhere from 4/10 wins a year. WYO is anywhere from 3/8 wins a year. Nevada 4/9 wins.
We as a conf are very fluid and not set in stone where everyone falls in to place, with a few exceptions.

 

[Wyokie]

Wyoming's complete Conference membership history.

Independent 1893-1920
Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference: 1921-1937
Mountain States Athletic Conference aka Skyline Conference: 1938-1961
Western Athletic Conference: 1962-1998 (we were the last school to be a charter member of the WAC)
Mountain West Conference: 1999-present

Any questions?

 

[Wyokie]

Bohl has a lot of work to do and it's not happening in 2-3 years. Consistent winning comes with consistent recruiting which is something we have never had the luxury of.

Serious question, though, has any other WYO coach coached in a worse conference?

No.

Yes. Look at our conference rundown in the 40's through the mid 70's. The Mountain conference, Rocky Mountain conf, I don't even remember the name of a few of the others because we changed and interchanged several times in a one to two year span. The. You had the WAC. The WAC was top heavy. BYU, Utah (on occasion), WYO and Utep were generally your top tier teams in the 80's and 90's. The 70's just remove us from the top, Utep wasn't in the conf yet and add Ariz St.

UTEP joined the WAC in 1968 (along with CSU). The Arizona school left the WAC in 1978 to join the PAC-8 (now the PAC-12).

 

[kansasCowboy]

Bohl has a lot of work to do and it's not happening in 2-3 years. Consistent winning comes with consistent recruiting which is something we have never had the luxury of.

Serious question, though, has any other WYO coach coached in a worse conference?

No.

Yes. Look at our conference rundown in the 40's through the mid 70's. The Mountain conference, Rocky Mountain conf, I don't even remember the name of a few of the others because we changed and interchanged several times in a one to two year span. The. You had the WAC. The WAC was top heavy. BYU, Utah (on occasion), WYO and Utep were generally your top tier teams in the 80's and 90's. The 70's just remove us from the top, Utep wasn't in the conf yet and add Ariz St.

UTEP joined the WAC in 1968 (along with CSU). The Arizona school left the WAC in 1978 to join the PAC-8 (now the PAC-12).

You're right. I was thinking Hawaii. But Utep still was not really good till a short stint in the 80's. They had a season here and there, but that was about it. They've always been the basketball school for the WAC.
Seriously BYU (WAC) and BSU (MWC) are the top team. Pretty much everyone shifts inbetween that and UNLV/Haw/ SJSU so far in the conf.
The point is, we are no worse off then the WAC in the mid 90's. Yes, had TCU, Utah, and byu stayed, I think there would have to be a push for us being considered a power conf.
But they didn't, and we are where we are. And we still aren't weak. We are not as strong as we were, but we're not pathetic either as a conf.

 

[BeaverPoke]

In 5 years if Wyo isn't in the top half of the MWC, Burman and everyone associated with the athletics department needs fired.

In 5 years, Wyo better have at least 2 bowl wins, and at least 3 bowl appearances.

Then we can worry about our timeline to win a MWC title.

After a MWC title we can worry about New Years 6 and Top 25.

Until then, try and get Potato, Copper, Poinsettia, and NM Bowls!

 

[joshvanklomp]

In 5 years if Wyo isn't in the top half of the MWC, Burman and everyone associated with the athletics department needs fired.

Everyone associated with the athletics department? Don't you think it's a little harsh to fire Shyatt if the football team isn't in the top five?

 

[ragtimejoe1]

How did all those conferences compare nationally at the time? Either way, so much has changed in the past 10-20 years, the historical comparisons are difficult. Hell, Ivy League Schools were the powerhouses :lol:

I'm genuine when asking if there has been a G5 coach in the past 10-20 years who did little more than 7 wins and a bowl game or so in his first 4 years and then went on to have great teams consistently? I looked at some of the more successful G5 programs (at the time) and most had experienced success by year 4. If you look at new coaches who failed, they didn't really achieve much other than maybe a 7 or 8 win season and bowl game in their first 4 years.

I just don't think the talent discrepancy at our level of football is so great that it takes years and years to become a really good (in terms of MWC) football team. I don't see it. I also think comparing P5 to G5 is useless because the talent discrepancies are much more pronounced at the P5 level.

I do think Bohl and company are great coaches and will do great things. I think our 10+ win season will be here by year 4. The disclaimer being our schedules continue to be like the upcoming year and not the past year.