Timing of our suckitude

[LawPoke]

As has been said over and over again, this is the absolute worst time for us to be terrible (in revenue sports specifically). Men’s basketball and football are on life support - with most already pulling the plug on the football team. Our donor base is tapped out (at least the 4 that can write big checks) to fund capital projects that have mostly split and angered the fanbase (AA remodel and west side of the War). Adding the optics and reality of being left behind by our oldest rival has made us bitter, hopeless and made our plight very real (for those that will own it).

To me, the only way forward is a bold new direction. The fans need to feel hope and not dread. They also need to understand their role to either salvage or finalize the end of competing on the bigger stage:

1) Fire Sawvel yesterday and tell the fanbase we need to raise $20 million for an excellence campaign for hiring coaches and finding players that win.
2) Seidel announces that TB is moving to a position in the Foundation to lead the fundraising for the $20 million. Everything over $20 mil, he gets 10%. We put $1 mil (+) a year up to hire an AD that is revolutionary, understands TV, and has vision.
3) Tell the fan base we are going to give it our all and need their support for 5 years. Set up clear metrics. At the end of 5 years, if those metrics are not met, it is pre-ordained that we drop to FCS. We can blather on about how it is anathema to drop to FCS, but I would challenge fans, former players, coaches to put our money where our mouths are.

To me, Wyoming, UW and the athletic department are the most socialist institutions the world has ever seen. We loathe change. We blather about Cowboy Tough and pablum knotted up in Codes of the West - and them, when the due bill hits, we look for someone else to pony up, rescue us and blame everyone and everything but ourselves. We don’t see our place or understand our responsibility to step up. Consequences of not stepping up hit and we pout that CSU only getting into the PAC because of the CU game viewership. Nevermind their investments in themselves, growing enrollment, exploding investments in their university by private, state and federal investors, and general positive inertia.

The waitress just dropped off the bill. Do we turn into a short armed T-Rex, like we always do, or do we seize this chance to try?

 

[307bball]

Would love to see this happen.

 

[Itsux2beaewe]

Well, I guess I’m one that stated CSewe got the call because of the CU game viewership. The fact is I’m being gaslighted about the media market, when UW has as many people watching (until this year) as Goat U. Well it isn’t viewership - is it! Money has been spent. Did we build a whole new stadium that is half full like the ewes. No we didn’t, but I would argue the HAPC is as fine of a facility for student athletes as most facilities in the conference. The indoor practice center might I mention. Stop gaslighting me about viewership because up until today, that isn’t the metric. I don’t know what it is, maybe a lazy AD, maybe because we needed another win against the ewes, corruption, I don’t know!

 

[307bball]

Well, I guess I’m one that stated CSewe got the call because of the CU game viewership. The fact is I’m being gaslighted about the media market, when UW has as many people watching (until this year) as Goat U. Well it isn’t viewership - is it! Money has been spent. Did we build a whole new stadium that is half full like the ewes. No we didn’t, but I would argue the HAPC is as fine of a facility for student athletes as most facilities in the conference. The indoor practice center might I mention. Stop gaslighting me about viewership because up until today, that isn’t the metric. I don’t know what it is, maybe a lazy AD, maybe because we needed another win against the ewes, corruption, I don’t know!

The only way it makes sense is in the case that CSU puts together a run...They get some % of fans/eyeballs of a much larger pie....it end's up being a bigger number. UW's % number is higher but the pie is tiny.

 

[Outlaw Arthur Morgan]

Have we even tried to apply for a different conference? Have we tried to team up with some old institutions like CSU about moving forward together?

If there is concerns about the media market, has anyone bothered to speak up and show we have a national brand and the front range belongs to UWYO?

Just a few questions to ask…..are we even trying?

 

[PokeNer]

Have we even tried to apply for a different conference? Have we tried to team up with some old institutions like CSU about moving forward together?

If there is concerns about the media market, has anyone bothered to speak up and show we have a national brand and the front range belongs to UWYO?

Just a few questions to ask…..are we even trying?

I have zero confidence that Burman is doing anything creative to move Wyoming athletics forward. The situation we’re in with the revenue sports and realignment lies at his feet. He’s complacent and unaccountable. He needs to go tomorrow.

 

[Asmodeanreborn]

The only way it makes sense is in the case that CSU puts together a run...They get some % of fans/eyeballs of a much larger pie....it end's up being a bigger number. UW's % number is higher but the pie is tiny.

From a business perspective, this is what seems to make the most sense. If my business tries to get into a new market by the acquisition of an established company, the current market share does have an impact on how attractive the acquisition is, but the potential market is even more important.

Of course, if the company I'm trying to acquire is already really profitable, that's great, but if they're at break-even and they already serve a significant portion of their potential market, why would I take on this extra risk?

On the other hand, if I'm flush with cash and I see somebody who's made significant investments in assets already (like a stadium) and is currently seriously underserving a large market with no real competition, maybe that's somewhere I'll spend my money, as turning that ship around could lead to some serious profits.

CSU has 3 times the student population of Wyoming, they've made some serious investments recently (whether smart or not remains to be seen), and they're in a location that should be way easier to recruit to than Laramie for a slew of reasons we're all aware of.

Will the Rams be successful in their new endeavor? Who knows? They've been given a golden opportunity, though, and I'm sure they were actively seeking that opportunity out, rather than getting it by sheer luck.

 

[307bball]

I have zero confidence that Burman is doing anything creative to move Wyoming athletics forward. The situation we’re in with the revenue sports and realignment lies at his feet. He’s complacent and unaccountable. He needs to go tomorrow.

From the outside we have no clue what is going on in conversations between conferences and university representatives....not applying and applying and getting shot down would look the same. If you are the AD of a school that nobody wants, you are definitely not giving the media a run down of every demoralizing conversation.

I guess we at least know that nobody is calling Wyoming...if that were the case, it would be plastered everywhere.

 

[PokeNer]

I agree with you, and not showing your hand if we’re actually doing something to get into the PAC and getting shot down. That does nothing for the University image.

However, I’m not giving Burman any excuses regardless of what’s going on behind the scenes. He’s hiding in a hole, just like when the bball program collapsed. This isn’t his program; this is all of ours and we deserve accountability. We’re the ones buying season tickets, donating to CJC, donating to 1WYO. This year, I donated more to CJC and 1WYO than ever. I’m done until Burman is gone.

 

[LawPoke]

M

Well, I guess I’m one that stated CSewe got the call because of the CU game viewership. The fact is I’m being gaslighted about the media market, when UW has as many people watching (until this year) as Goat U. Well it isn’t viewership - is it! Money has been spent. Did we build a whole new stadium that is half full like the ewes. No we didn’t, but I would argue the HAPC is as fine of a facility for student athletes as most facilities in the conference. The indoor practice center might I mention. Stop gaslighting me about viewership because up until today, that isn’t the metric. I don’t know what it is, maybe a lazy AD, maybe because we needed another win against the ewes, corruption, I don’t know!

Maybe you are right. Or maybe the folks that made the invite have a significantly more robust dataset than we do. My bet is that the metrics favor adding the teams that were invited. This is a business. Straight up - with analysts and data and trend information that we couldn’t begin to assemble or understand. Having been party to diligence efforts on deals much smaller than this, i am sure of it.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Does the pac have a TV contract? Let's see their numbers first. It's entirely possible delusions of grandeur by self inflated opinions drove all of this.

 

[rocket city poke]

From a business perspective, this is what seems to make the most sense. If my business tries to get into a new market by the acquisition of an established company, the current market share does have an impact on how attractive the acquisition is, but the potential market is even more important.

Of course, if the company I'm trying to acquire is already really profitable, that's great, but if they're at break-even and they already serve a significant portion of their potential market, why would I take on this extra risk?

On the other hand, if I'm flush with cash and I see somebody who's made significant investments in assets already (like a stadium) and is currently seriously underserving a large market with no real competition, maybe that's somewhere I'll spend my money, as turning that ship around could lead to some serious profits.

CSU has 3 times the student population of Wyoming, they've made some serious investments recently (whether smart or not remains to be seen), and they're in a location that should be way easier to recruit to than Laramie for a slew of reasons we're all aware of.

Will the Rams be successful in their new endeavor? Who knows? They've been given a golden opportunity, though, and I'm sure they were actively seeking that opportunity out, rather than getting it by sheer luck.

You are exactly correct. You can see this in the CSU trend in men's basketball. Over the past 13 years, they are 267-168 with 4 NCAA tournament appearances, 7 twenty win seasons. Applying that "potential" to football, Wyoming has not shown "potential" in either program. Also, I tried to make this point earlier. Oregon State is driving this new PAC12 conference. Oregon State baseball has 3 college World Series Championships, 17 NCAA appearances in the last 20 years. Their baseball program is driving this more than anyone realizes. The MWC had only 7 baseball members last year, so i'm thinking you don't need 8 to be a D1 baseball league, but the schools they want have baseball or will have it. That isn't UW.

 

[307bball]

Does the pac have a TV contract? Let's see their numbers first. It's entirely possible delusions of grandeur by self inflated opinions drove all of this.

Whatever it's going to be.... It will be higher than what UW gets... Soon CSU won't just be a better media market .. We won't be competitive with them on the field either.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Whatever it's going to be.... It will be higher than what UW gets... Soon CSU won't just be a better media market .. We won't be competitive with them on the field either.

We'll see but I don't think their TV deal is going to be more than 8 mill/school. If fbs splits, it might be a lot less than that. Remember now the acc, big 12, and b1g have mountain and/or pacific time zone content for later games. If fbs splits soon, there won't be that much TV money left for the g6 ranks.

Adding wsu and osu to the mwc wasn't going to add a bunch to our TV deal. Nether will eliminating a few mwc teams other than reduced splits. Besides, they already spend 10 mill more than us.

Hard to tell what it will be, but I'll believe it when I see their signed tv deal.

 

[Vancopoke]

Burman is doing nothing. Saw in a recent article that he said with the right additions, the Mountain West could be a very good conference.

Very happy with our place in the changing environment.

 

[PokeTransplant]

Burman is doing nothing. Saw in a recent article that he said with the right additions, the Mountain West could be a very good conference.

Very happy with our place in the changing environment.

This is my issue with Burman, et al....NO, absolute no vision of how to elevate Wyoming athletics. He has always defaulted to "Wyoming's goal is to remain competitive". No plan to make Wyoming the pinnacle of athletic excellence.
Keep the bar low and expectations follow....

 

[PorkerPoke]

Burman is doing nothing. Saw in a recent article that he said with the right additions, the Mountain West could be a very good conference.

Very happy with our place in the changing environment.

This is my issue with Burman, et al....NO, absolute no vision of how to elevate Wyoming athletics. He has always defaulted to "Wyoming's goal is to remain competitive". No plan to make Wyoming the pinnacle of athletic excellence.
Keep the bar low and expectations follow....

Burman has been adamant that a key strategy was to contract coaches in a manner that would keep them from being poached by a program with more $$$.

When was the last time a coach was poached by a program with the money to do it? Clemson grabbed Shyatt who sued Wyoming over the clause he owed $400,000. Can’t include Tiller because Moon wouldn’t give him a contract extension so Joe said goodbye. Brandenburg said stick it. So it was last Dennis Erickson who disappeared quickly.

The point is this football hire was about the retention of players. Burman chose to be scared players would leave. He chose the system that only won more than 6 games when the QB play was at least average at best. When I see North Texas with a young coach and 77 new players annihilating the “established” program with a voluminous returning roster it exposes just how weak the strategy of recruiting mostly developmental players and getting lucky with a couple of key players is.

Tiller explained that the only way to win is a player had to be ready to at least be a performer on special teams as a R-Fr and able to compete as a starter by the SO year. We have a QB that doesn’t fit the criteria (not just to single out one spot as there are numerous spots) as he was a JC practice player, a redshirt, a backup and now as a Junior his skill set looks like he just completed HS as a 2nd string player.

The Wyoming system is de facto afraid to pursue being better. In this 2024-2025 season our only hope is that Wicks has assembled something somewhat competitive.

I read the Dennis Dodd write up this morning and I have to agree if Wyoming is to remain in a conference at the FBS level it will come down to whether or not the MWC can take from the CUSA or if the CUSA absorbs Wyoming. And I take that position after years of a reluctance to take on a strategy of pursuing a higher competitive level which had to emphasize results in conference play instead of just facilities.

Wyoming is flyover territory and if the airlines don’t stop in the state it means the TV sets don’t move the meter for advertising revenue.

The divorce from Wyoming sports is nearer to completion. It’s a sad time in life. I’m glad I got to see some wonderful times in my life intermingled with the constant struggles.

 

[LawPoke]

Burman has been adamant that a key strategy was to contract coaches in a manner that would keep them from being poached by a program with more $$$.

When was the last time a coach was poached by a program with the money to do it? Clemson grabbed Shyatt who sued Wyoming over the clause he owed $400,000. Can’t include Tiller because Moon wouldn’t give him a contract extension so Joe said goodbye. Brandenburg said stick it. So it was last Dennis Erickson who disappeared quickly.

The point is this football hire was about the retention of players. Burman chose to be scared players would leave. He chose the system that only won more than 6 games when the QB play was at least average at best. When I see North Texas with a young coach and 77 new players annihilating the “established” program with a voluminous returning roster it exposes just how weak the strategy of recruiting mostly developmental players and getting lucky with a couple of key players is.

Tiller explained that the only way to win is a player had to be ready to at least be a performer on special teams as a R-Fr and able to compete as a starter by the SO year. We have a QB that doesn’t fit the criteria (not just to single out one spot as there are numerous spots) as he was a JC practice player, a redshirt, a backup and now as a Junior his skill set looks like he just completed HS as a 2nd string player.

The Wyoming system is de facto afraid to pursue being better. In this 2024-2025 season our only hope is that Wicks has assembled something somewhat competitive.

I read the Dennis Dodd write up this morning and I have to agree if Wyoming is to remain in a conference at the FBS level it will come down to whether or not the MWC can take from the CUSA or if the CUSA absorbs Wyoming. And I take that position after years of a reluctance to take on a strategy of pursuing a higher competitive level which had to emphasize results in conference play instead of just facilities.

Wyoming is flyover territory and if the airlines don’t stop in the state it means the TV sets don’t move the meter for advertising revenue.

The divorce from Wyoming sports is nearer to completion. It’s a sad time in life. I’m glad I got to see some wonderful times in my life intermingled with the constant struggles.

This is exactly where I am. Exactly. And our son leaves for college next year, so I will likely start to follow his school more and more.

Burman was raised in the era when everyone left. He saw Devaney, Dye, Akers, Erickson and others leave. It left him with a bit of a complex. To me, if your coaches are leaving, it’s because they are wanted and your program is strong. In short, you are winning.

I’d love to see a break the mould hire. No one from within 100 miles of Laramie should sniff the job. No one from the Bohl tree should be interviewed. Young, energetic, charismatic, and innovative. The OC from UNLV? The option guy from the D2 school in Arkansas? Find someone with huge ties to TX. That’s where the players are. They may transfer, but hell, everyone is transferring. It should be assumed. That’s the new reality.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

We need to push to get teams added to the mwc now.

If we get a continued shot at fbs, we better damn sure do something big. If we get relegated to fcs, I say drop football and focus entirely on men's and women's bball and wrestling.

 

[PorkerPoke]

We need to push to get teams added to the mwc now.

If we get a continued shot at fbs, we better damn sure do something big. If we get relegated to fcs, I say drop football and focus entirely on men's and women's bball and wrestling.

I’m with you on that. It’s looking like the MWC better be ready to grab at least 3 CUSA teams. Very unlikely the FCS teams would want to invest 5 million to move to FBS in a conference that may not last long and potentially sent packing back to FCS in the next few years.

Burman is silent because he knows how bleak the future is looking right now.

The P12 may end up desperately absorbing more MWC teams and Wyoming will be begging the CUSA for a spot.

It’s dog eat dog and our dog prefers to sniff tail instead.