Thorburn Interview With Burman: details on hiring Sawvell, his contract, vision for the future.

[McPeachy]

In Tom we trust.

Care to elaborate? Does it anger you that die-hard pokes fans are not lighting torches and gathering pitchforks and heading to Burman's office?

We don't need torches & pitchforks. We need accountability. We need to be uncomfortable. We will see what this hire brings, and if a homerun, reward everyone involved. This has the "feeling" of Allen Edwards though...to me.

 

[Bryoming]

Care to elaborate? Does it anger you that die-hard pokes fans are not lighting torches and gathering pitchforks and heading to Burman's office?

We don't need torches & pitchforks. We need accountability. We need to be uncomfortable. We will see what this hire brings, and if a homerun, reward everyone involved. This has the "felling" of Allen Edwards though...agree?

Initial feeling, yes. By all accounts Edwards was a good hire at the time. Didn't pan out, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't ever try a continuity hire again.

 

[LanderPoke]

We don't need torches & pitchforks. We need accountability. We need to be uncomfortable. We will see what this hire brings, and if a homerun, reward everyone involved. This has the "felling" of Allen Edwards though...agree?

Initial feeling, yes. By all accounts Edwards was a good hire at the time. Didn't pan out, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't ever try a continuity hire again.

Hope this doesn't turn out like Edwards. It's very similar

 

[McPeachy]

Initial feeling, yes. By all accounts Edwards was a good hire at the time. Didn't pan out, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't ever try a continuity hire again.

Hope this doesn't turn out like Edwards. It's very similar

You and me both, or (as 307 pointed out) - there will be pitchforks and torches...lol!

 

[307bball]

Everybody wants the visionary iconoclast that succeeds...unfortunately, that individual is difficult to find the sea of visionary iconoclasts that crash and burn. That is not to say that people should not ask hard questions or hold people accountable...just that as the risks go up...the more conservative approach becomes the "right" answer.

If you are in Burman's seat...you have had very few success's but one of the bigger ones is Cowboy football. Maybe not in the sense that fan's recognize, but in the mission of marketing the university it has been very successful during the Bohl era. There are far more ways it goes poorly from here than it gets better. In Burman's eyes...if it just doesn't get worse...that would be a victory. I totally get why he made the call he did.

"right call" or "wrong call" is not the way to look at it. Once you make the call you move on and try to make the right call at the next decision point. This is outcome oriented thinking vs process oriented thinking. Is it the "right call" today? mmm I'm in the camp that it isn't the "wrong call" if that makes sense. It's done....no matter what happens over the next two seasons, Burman will get an opportunity to make another call.

 

[cowpokeguy]

Initial feeling, yes. By all accounts Edwards was a good hire at the time. Didn't pan out, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't ever try a continuity hire again.

Hope this doesn't turn out like Edwards. It's very similar

Or like Vic Koennig; seemed like a decent hire at the time, take a career DC to build on what Joe Tiller and Dana Dimel had done. Instead, turned out he may be a decent DC but as head coach led Wyo to three of the darkest years we've ever had in football. Not just losing games, but getting blown out week after week. <shivers>

 

[Wyokie]

Initial feeling, yes. By all accounts Edwards was a good hire at the time. Didn't pan out, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't ever try a continuity hire again.

Hope this doesn't turn out like Edwards. It's very similar

Or like Keonning. I don't want to EVER go back to that nightmare again!

 

[Outlaw Arthur Morgan]

Its too bad they turned me down. I had this ready to hit the presses.

Unleash the Outlaw: Wyoming's Gridiron Revolution!

Ladies and gentlemen, buckle up for a wild ride because the gridiron is about to witness a seismic shift under the command of none other than the indomitable Coach Outlaw Arthur Morgan! Picture this: a defensive fortress so impenetrable it's practically a no-fly zone for opposing offenses. Coach Morgan's defensive prowess is more than just a strategy; it's a defensive apocalypse waiting to be unleashed on Wyoming's foes!

But that's not all - brace yourselves for offensive fireworks that would make even the likes of Abraham Lincoln throw up a touchdown salute! Coach Morgan's offensive playbook is a masterclass in scoring mayhem, with four scores per quarter becoming the new Wyoming norm. It's not just a game; it's a symphony of touchdowns, and Coach Outlaw Arthur Morgan is the maestro orchestrating this symphony of victory!

Wyoming deserves a head coach with a swagger as big as the Big Horns, as High as the elevation, and Coach Morgan brings that swagger in truckloads. His infectious energy, unwavering determination, and a coaching style that's as boisterous as the Wyoming wind will elevate the Cowboys to gridiron glory. Say goodbye to mediocrity, Wyoming, because Coach Outlaw Arthur Morgan is about to turn your football dreams into a raucous reality! #OutlawOnTheLoose #WyomingCowboys #RideForTheBrand

Oh what could have been.....

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Everybody wants the visionary iconoclast that succeeds...unfortunately, that individual is difficult to find the sea of visionary iconoclasts that crash and burn. That is not to say that people should not ask hard questions or hold people accountable...just that as the risks go up...the more conservative approach becomes the "right" answer.

If you are in Burman's seat...you have had very few success's but one of the bigger ones is Cowboy football. Maybe not in the sense that fan's recognize, but in the mission of marketing the university it has been very successful during the Bohl era. There are far more ways it goes poorly from here than it gets better. In Burman's eyes...if it just doesn't get worse...that would be a victory. I totally get why he made the call he did.

"right call" or "wrong call" is not the way to look at it. Once you make the call you move on and try to make the right call at the next decision point. This is outcome oriented thinking vs process oriented thinking. Is it the "right call" today? mmm I'm in the camp that it isn't the "wrong call" if that makes sense. It's done....no matter what happens over the next two seasons, Burman will get an opportunity to make another call.

Well, the outcome oriented thinking hasn't thought a way to get a football championship.

I suppose you're right. The majority of WYO fans, boosters, politicians, and administrators don't really care.

 

[307bball]

Everybody wants the visionary iconoclast that succeeds...unfortunately, that individual is difficult to find the sea of visionary iconoclasts that crash and burn. That is not to say that people should not ask hard questions or hold people accountable...just that as the risks go up...the more conservative approach becomes the "right" answer.

If you are in Burman's seat...you have had very few success's but one of the bigger ones is Cowboy football. Maybe not in the sense that fan's recognize, but in the mission of marketing the university it has been very successful during the Bohl era. There are far more ways it goes poorly from here than it gets better. In Burman's eyes...if it just doesn't get worse...that would be a victory. I totally get why he made the call he did.

"right call" or "wrong call" is not the way to look at it. Once you make the call you move on and try to make the right call at the next decision point. This is outcome oriented thinking vs process oriented thinking. Is it the "right call" today? mmm I'm in the camp that it isn't the "wrong call" if that makes sense. It's done....no matter what happens over the next two seasons, Burman will get an opportunity to make another call.

Well, the outcome oriented thinking hasn't thought a way to get a football championship.

I suppose you're right. The majority of WYO fans, boosters, politicians, and administrators don't really care.

To be clear....I don't really know what style of thinking is dominating at the upper levels of UW. Probably need both styles....

 

[DamThatRiver22]

@ragtime

Look man...

For the record, I've wanted Bohl gone since 2019, and I've endured some pretty intense arguments because of that position. I'm far from apathetic.

I also think that Burman has had more misses than hits in his hires and his handling of some situations.

However, I also think that Wyoming's athletics department...and its overall health...is in a vastly better place now than it was when he took over in a number of ways. Firing him right now creates more problems than it solves, would be extremely costly, and at the moment, isn't really deserved.

The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Furthermore, don't put words in my mouth. I've never once said Sawvell was a homerun hire. I think he's a decent to good hire, with plenty of upside and potential. I also know that he's got more experience and qualifications than you're willing to admit.

I do, however, have some big concerns, and I have voiced those (whether you were paying attention or not).

Again, the two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Additionally, yes, I think the contract is reasonable. You think he overpaid; I think he underpaid a tiny bit....that probably means it's right where it should be. Lmao.

And make no mistake, if we slide significantly backwards right out the gate...or we don't move forward given a reasonable amount of time (2-3 years)...I'll be calling for Sawvell's head too. But that doesn't necessarily mean this wasn't a reasonable and defensible hire. Again with the concept of mutual exclusivity, or lack thereof.

It's weird to me that some people (seemingly including you, as of late) seem to live their lives at emotional/logical/opinion extremes, then strawman everyone else and accuse anyone who understands nuance and grey area as "apathetic".

Edit: I also thoroughly enjoy when people claim to be all about facts and logic, yet ignore both the former and the latter.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

How about this: I agree the hire and process perfectly reflects Burman's, most fans', and the program's ambitions and aspirations.

There, I bet we agree.

 

[laxwyo]

How about this: I agree the hire and process perfectly reflects Burman's, most fans', and the program's ambitions and aspirations.

There, I bet we agree.

Dude. We’re literally a cunt hair from being in championship game last two years and ,if we win the bowl game, we win more games than any year since 96’. You want to tear it down? You saw what Burman said, you go on some sort of national coach search and all your recruits and half team are gone.

His salary is fine.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

How about this: I agree the hire and process perfectly reflects Burman's, most fans', and the program's ambitions and aspirations.

There, I bet we agree.

Dude. We’re literally a c-word hair from being in championship game last two years and ,if we win the bowl game, we win more games than any year since 96’. You want to tear it down? You saw what Burman said, you go on some sort of national coach search and all your recruits and half team are gone.

His salary is fine.

So we agree?

 

[ZapPoke]

I feel like the apex of Cowboy football was a long time ago, the 1967 team that was ranked in the top 10 and went to the Sugar Bowl. There were a lot fewer division 1 teams then and a heckuva lot fewer bowl games. The number of teams and bowl games now has diluted the significance of 1A football. I feel like the university and major donors are satisfied that we are getting bowl games they can travel to and an attendance record was set. Winning a conference championship appears to be a “nice to have” but not an expectation. Football is after all, just entertainment and a reason to get together and party for most folks.

 

[DamThatRiver22]

So we agree?

It's weird to me how much more disingenuous you get in re-characterizing or mischaracterizing your original stance and argument as this debate goes on, along with continuing to mischaracterize, misinterpret, and strawman everyone else's positions too.

It's weasel-y...and personally, I'm not playing anymore.

We get it. In spite of being two inches from MWCCG appearances...and having better marketing, recruiting, attendance, TV ratings, and facilities than we've had in ages...you want to blow the entire staff and roster up.

And since Burman didn't do that, you want to fire Burman, thus resulting in complete staff turnover in revenue sports and probably a few non-revenue sports as well, which also results in complete roster turnover in revenue sports, and then we get to wait for complete systems rebuilds for 2-3 years...while you're among the first to sit and complain that everything's sh*t.

And since most of us either don't agree or don't 100% agree...or we think there's some nuance or compromise involved...we're all just "apathetic" and "content" and we have zero desire to hold anyone or anything accountable.

Edit: I'll remind you that once again, I've wanted Bohl (among others) fired for years and I've taken flak from 90% of the fanbase for it.

 

[evilpoke]

It seemed to work for Boise when they promoted Chris Peterson as head coach ... just saying. Oh, and Joe Legerski seemed to do okay.

There's plenty of examples where hiring from within works out and where it doesn't.

Fact is, none of us have any freaking idea if this will work out or not.

 

[Wyokie]

It seemed to work for Boise when they promoted Chris Peterson as head coach ... just saying. Oh, and Joe Legerski seemed to do okay.

There's plenty of examples where hiring from within works out and where it doesn't.

Fact is, none of us have any freaking idea if this will work out or not.

Like a lot of things in life....it's a crap shoot. If it works, wonderful! If it don't, we're back in hell again.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

So we agree?

It's weird to me how much more disingenuous you get in re-characterizing or mischaracterizing your original stance and argument as this debate goes on, along with continuing to mischaracterize, misinterpret, and strawman everyone else's positions too.

It's weasel-y...and personally, I'm not playing anymore.

We get it. In spite of being two inches from MWCCG appearances...and having better marketing, recruiting, attendance, TV ratings, and facilities than we've had in ages...you want to blow the entire staff and roster up.

And since Burman didn't do that, you want to fire Burman, thus resulting in complete staff turnover in revenue sports and probably a few non-revenue sports as well, which also results in complete roster turnover in revenue sports, and then we get to wait for complete systems rebuilds for 2-3 years...while you're among the first to sit and complain that everything's sh*t.

And since most of us either don't agree or don't 100% agree...or we think there's some nuance or compromise involved...we're all just "apathetic" and "content" and we have zero desire to hold anyone or anything accountable.

Edit: I'll remind you that once again, I've wanted Bohl (among others) fired for years and I've taken flak from 90% of the fanbase for it.

It appears the process and hire meets your aspirations and expectations. Like I said, I think we can agree on that and move on.

Let's do a riddle. I'll give you 2 numbers 66 and 21.

 

[MrTitleist]

https://twitter.com/TomFornelli/status/1732452417512374288