THIS is classic Burman

[fromolwyoming]

So, we're saying all that entails being an AD is way more than we know or even care to discuss, yet our measuring stick to a good one is as black and white as MWC Championships.

I understand the CEO analogy. Except CEOs and their companies can be extremely successful and NOT be #1 in their market. We're saying an AD is only ever remotely successful if they win championships and nothing else.

Outside of wrestling though, and Brett Smith's first year (finished 3rd and had a decent chance of sharing a title when we faced TCU), we haven't won a conference title since 2002. I'm not saying we should win titles every year in every single thing, but to not win any titles in any MWC sport since 2002 means that something isn't working right. I give Bohl and Shyatt a pass (Shyatt is getting things going the right way after 2 years of barely having a starting 5 and Bohl hasn't even had Spring practice), and Branch has been doing his job exceptionally well, but the other sports have been dissappointing for the most part. Joe Legerski had a great year in 2007 when he won the WNIT, but not much else. We have teams coming in from the WAC in their first or second year and out performing us the moment they come in.

 

[BeaverPoke]

So, we're saying all that entails being an AD is way more than we know or even care to discuss, yet our measuring stick to a good one is as black and white as MWC Championships.

I understand the CEO analogy. Except CEOs and their companies can be extremely successful and NOT be #1 in their market. We're saying an AD is only ever remotely successful if they win championships and nothing else.

Outside of wrestling though, and Brett Smith's first year (finished 3rd and had a decent chance of sharing a title when we faced TCU), we haven't won a conference title since 2002. I'm not saying we should win titles every year in every single thing, but to not win any titles in any MWC sport since 2002 means that something isn't working right. I give Bohl and Shyatt a pass (Shyatt is getting things going the right way after 2 years of barely having a starting 5 and Bohl hasn't even had Spring practice), and Branch has been doing his job exceptionally well, but the other sports have been dissappointing for the most part. Joe Legerski had a great year in 2007 when he won the WNIT, but not much else. We have teams coming in from the WAC in their first or second year and out performing us the moment they come in.

I think we should be winning MWC titles EVERY year.
Whether it is football, basketball, womens basketball, tennis, swimming, baseball, WHATEVER, just win something every year.

Seems like every other team in the conference is winning titles every year in some sport.

Fresno State has more MWC titles than we do, and they just freaking joined!

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

Every AD in the history of this school has been disliked (except Roach, but even he wasn't that popular until he hired himself at football coach).

Again, I don't care one bit about Burman, get him out, bring in someone new. I give it 2 years before we see a thread called "THIS is classic (whatshisname)". Either that or Bohl and Shyatt start winning and we give all the credit to the new guy. Haha

 

[Wyolie Coyote]

So, we're saying all that entails being an AD is way more than we know or even care to discuss, yet our measuring stick to a good one is as black and white as MWC Championships.

I understand the CEO analogy. Except CEOs and their companies can be extremely successful and NOT be #1 in their market. We're saying an AD is only ever remotely successful if they win championships and nothing else.

So what can Burman hang his hat on as being a success? I would like to know what you think makes an AD successful beyond wins and championships.

 

[McPeachy]

Every AD in the history of this school has been disliked (except Roach, but even he wasn't that popular until he hired himself at football coach).

Again, I don't care one bit about Burman, get him out, bring in someone new. I give it 2 years before we see a thread called "THIS is classic (whatshisname)". Either that or Bohl and Shyatt start winning and we give all the credit to the new guy. Haha

Way off base IMO.

Gary Barta (the predecessor to Burman - just 9 short years ago) was an outstanding AD at Wyoming. In all aspects. The administrative team that he employed and managed would run circles around the current joke of a department. An example: The athletic / facility building going on - that you are seeing now and since early 2000's was all him and President Dubois (RAC, IPF, Jonah, Wildcatter, Tennis Complex, MPG, etc.).

Maybe it alternates? Good / Shitty / Good / Shitty?? As the predecessor to Barta was almost at uninspiring as Burman. Well - he was more of a visionary, and he worked harder, but I question a lot he did as well (like letting Joe Tiller get away).

 

[hithere]

Every AD in the history of this school has been disliked (except Roach, but even he wasn't that popular until he hired himself at football coach).

I don't remember McCarty or Cunningham at all. I know that McCarty hired Haskins at UTEP so that hire alone (along with Pat Dye, Fred Akers and Jim Brandenburg at Wyo) makes him, historically, pretty good at directing athletics. Cunningham hired Erickson, I believe, and then went on to Fresno and then UCSB. So... make your own judgment there.

And then Moon.

My view of Barta was that he was biding his time. If memory serves, he didn't hire or fire and didn't make waves. The Wyoming way. I don't know about his administrative team like others here do.

My point in this history recollection is not only has the landscape of NCAA sanctioned sports changed dramatically, and just keeping the status quo intact is not enough, but I'd also disagree with your statement of every AD in the history of UW being disliked. The inference that Burman, right or wrong, is just another cog in the machine and will be hated no matter what is just not accurate. Burman has been doing this at UW for close to a decade and has next to nothing to show for it. He's fully earned the scorn many have for his tenure. Facilities, not really his. Championships, none. Academic success, I remember the basketball team under Schroyer showing record breaking failure rates. His notches in the bedpost have basically been do-overs from his past blunders. I'm just as excited as the next fan about the potential of Bohl but he hasn't done one thing yet to say he was a successful hire. In fact, I'll be bitching about Stanard being DC for the next few years anyway. And Shyatt was hired by committee to overcome the damage that hiring AND EXTENDING Heath Schroyer caused.

If every AD since Roach has been hated, how many years of success since Roach have there been to make an equal comparison? Athletic reputation and success has to start somewhere. In my view, it hasn't yet with Tom Burman. If you don't care about Burman either way, I think you should start. His position is an important one.

EDIT: I neglected to mention Bob Hitch. We dodged a bullet there, it seems.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

My view of Barta was that he was biding his time. If memory serves, he didn't hire or fire and didn't make waves. The Wyoming way. I don't know about his administrative team like others here do.

Well, Barta extended Joe Glenn's contract a couple months after a 4-7 (2-6 MWC) football season. That seems way more suspect than extending Christensen after winning a bowl game and earning MWC coach of the year honors.

I haven't met anyone who was a Lee Moon fan, and he won a regular season MWC basketball championship. So it beats me on how people rate ADs. It's not so much a pro-Burman, anti-Burman conversation I'm having. I just don't understand the logic behind a lot of these opinions when I compare Burman to past ADs. There doesn't seem to be a huge difference to me in the decision making (see my first paragraph).

 

[hithere]

Well, Barta extended Joe Glenn's contract a couple months after a 4-7 (2-6 MWC) football season. That seems way more suspect than extending Christensen after winning a bowl game and earning MWC coach of the year honors.

Arguably, yes it does. You're right.

2005, when TCU came to town and Corey Bramlet decided to be a Horned Frog for the day. That season went to shit faster than a cat can lick its ass.

 

[fromolwyoming]

My view of Barta was that he was biding his time. If memory serves, he didn't hire or fire and didn't make waves. The Wyoming way. I don't know about his administrative team like others here do.

Well, Barta extended Joe Glenn's contract a couple months after a 4-7 (2-6 MWC) football season. That seems way more suspect than extending Christensen after winning a bowl game and earning MWC coach of the year honors.

I haven't met anyone who was a Lee Moon fan, and he won a regular season MWC basketball championship. So it beats me on how people rate ADs. It's not so much a pro-Burman, anti-Burman conversation I'm having. I just don't understand the logic behind a lot of these opinions when I compare Burman to past ADs. There doesn't seem to be a huge difference to me in the decision making (see my first paragraph).

DC got his contract extension BEFORE the bowl game.

 

[Wyolie Coyote]

My view of Barta was that he was biding his time. If memory serves, he didn't hire or fire and didn't make waves. The Wyoming way. I don't know about his administrative team like others here do.

Well, Barta extended Joe Glenn's contract a couple months after a 4-7 (2-6 MWC) football season. That seems way more suspect than extending Christensen after winning a bowl game and earning MWC coach of the year honors.

I haven't met anyone who was a Lee Moon fan, and he won a regular season MWC basketball championship. So it beats me on how people rate ADs. It's not so much a pro-Burman, anti-Burman conversation I'm having. I just don't understand the logic behind a lot of these opinions when I compare Burman to past ADs. There doesn't seem to be a huge difference to me in the decision making (see my first paragraph).

DC got his contract extension BEFORE the bowl game.

Before we got embarrassed by Temple.

 

[VisorHair]

Pssst...hey guys, I think Burman has a profile on here. His name is Tweaked. hahahaha

Or Visor Hair.

Or maybe I understand the business and I'm backing a damn good AD.

 

[VisorHair]

Every AD in the history of this school has been disliked (except Roach, but even he wasn't that popular until he hired himself at football coach).

I don't remember McCarty or Cunningham at all. I know that McCarty hired Haskins at UTEP so that hire alone (along with Pat Dye, Fred Akers and Jim Brandenburg at Wyo) makes him, historically, pretty good at directing athletics. Cunningham hired Erickson, I believe, and then went on to Fresno and then UCSB. So... make your own judgment there.

And then Moon.

My view of Barta was that he was biding his time. If memory serves, he didn't hire or fire and didn't make waves. The Wyoming way. I don't know about his administrative team like others here do.

My point in this history recollection is not only has the landscape of NCAA sanctioned sports changed dramatically, and just keeping the status quo intact is not enough, but I'd also disagree with your statement of every AD in the history of UW being disliked. The inference that Burman, right or wrong, is just another cog in the machine and will be hated no matter what is just not accurate. Burman has been doing this at UW for close to a decade and has next to nothing to show for it. He's fully earned the scorn many have for his tenure. Facilities, not really his. Championships, none. Academic success, I remember the basketball team under Schroyer showing record breaking failure rates. His notches in the bedpost have basically been do-overs from his past blunders. I'm just as excited as the next fan about the potential of Bohl but he hasn't done one thing yet to say he was a successful hire. In fact, I'll be bitching about Stanard being DC for the next few years anyway. And Shyatt was hired by committee to overcome the damage that hiring AND EXTENDING Heath Schroyer caused.

If every AD since Roach has been hated, how many years of success since Roach have there been to make an equal comparison? Athletic reputation and success has to start somewhere. In my view, it hasn't yet with Tom Burman. If you don't care about Burman either way, I think you should start. His position is an important one.

EDIT: I neglected to mention Bob Hitch. We dodged a bullet there, it seems.

Let's research before you talk out the side of your neck. Heath revitalized the program's APR! College athletics is a chain reaction. Every coach/AD is continually cleaning up past mistakes. Moon buried this athletic department by 10 years. CJC is now the most successful it's ever been - Currently has the most donors of any MWC school. Intercollegiate Athletics is a BUSINESS. There has never been more money flowing into Wyoming Athletics than today. That in itself is a huge success alone.

 

[BeaverPoke]

So...I post a prediction thread, no one replies, and people get mad at me for posting too many threads in the forums, but the same damn AD conversation that we have every month...seriously...we have this damn conversation all the F****** time, and it blows up.

Wyonation...you're so lame sometimes.

Girls playing the Sheep in the qtr finals, men just had a dramatic, but disappointing end to their season, wrestlers are in the NCAA tourney, swimmers are at nationals, Wyo just had Pro Day, and spring football is about to start but you guys are 50+ posts into ANOTHER "Burman sucks" thread???

Do we care about winning or just want to lose so we can pretend we care about winning? lol

 

[kansasCowboy]

Burmans only mistake that I can really identify is not neccesarily the hiring of Schroyer, cause we all thought he was an up and coming coach after what we saw him do with Portland St, and his defensive coaching ability before that.
But his big BooBoo was giving him an extension.
DC gave us a winning season and a bowl win his first year and another bowl his third year. Anyone would be giving their coach an extension if they had gone to a bowl. I find no mistake in how he handled DC.

 

[McPeachy]

Let's research before you talk out the side of your neck. Heath revitalized the program's APR! College athletics is a chain reaction. Every coach/AD is continually cleaning up past mistakes. Moon buried this athletic department by 10 years. CJC is now the most successful it's ever been - Currently has the most donors of any MWC school. Intercollegiate Athletics is a BUSINESS. There has never been more money flowing into Wyoming Athletics than today. That in itself is a huge success alone.

Heath was given resources (a full time academic supervisor, full time academic liaison / tutor, and several - 20+ student volunteer support staff persons for daily tutoring). Not impressed, in fact, shame on the administration for not giving the previous regime those tools.

CJC is the most successful - depends on how you measure success. More money now (on the books) than ever before - you are correct - as far as stand alone CJC. As a direct result of seat premiums, jacked rate levels of donations for certain perks like parking, increased prices at both the annual auctions, increased prices at golf functions, etc.

We still have an athletic department that is glad we aren't competing with the likes of Utah, BYU, and TCU any longer, so that our athletic budget more closely matches our current level of competition. If there is anything that screams mediocrity it is that. Instead of growing to the level of the 3 mentioned above, we are happier to be semi- stagnant with the USU's and SJSU's of the western sports community. Puke. Maybe we change our slogan, "Wyoming - the next Idaho of college sports".

 

[McPeachy]

So...I post a prediction thread, no one replies, and people get mad at me for posting too many threads in the forums, but the same damn AD conversation that we have every month...seriously...we have this damn conversation all the F****** time, and it blows up.

Wyonation...you're so lame sometimes.

Girls playing the Sheep in the qtr finals, men just had a dramatic, but disappointing end to their season, wrestlers are in the NCAA tourney, swimmers are at nationals, Wyo just had Pro Day, and spring football is about to start but you guys are 50+ posts into ANOTHER "Burman sucks" thread???

Do we care about winning or just want to lose so we can pretend we care about winning? lol

Geesus Cleav, you drinking already today? Thanks for the chuckle! :lol:

Why can't we post / talk / rant / disagree / agree / bitch / moan / celebrate / jerkoff / laugh / flame / etc., on more than one topic at a time on Wyonation now?

 

[Wyolie Coyote]

Let's research before you talk out the side of your neck. Heath revitalized the program's APR! College athletics is a chain reaction. Every coach/AD is continually cleaning up past mistakes. Moon buried this athletic department by 10 years. CJC is now the most successful it's ever been - Currently has the most donors of any MWC school. Intercollegiate Athletics is a BUSINESS. There has never been more money flowing into Wyoming Athletics than today. That in itself is a huge success alone.

Heath was given resources (a full time academic supervisor, full time academic liaison / tutor, and several - 20+ student volunteer support staff persons for daily tutoring). Not impressed, in fact, shame on the administration for not giving the previous regime those tools.
CJC is the most successful - depends on how you measure success. More money now (on the books) than ever before - you are correct - as far as stand alone CJC. As a direct result of seat premiums, jacked rate levels of donations for certain perks like parking, increased prices at both the annual auctions, increased prices at golf functions, etc.

We still have an athletic department that is glad we aren't competing with the likes of Utah, BYU, and TCU any longer, so that our athletic budget more closely matches our current level of competition. If there is anything that screams mediocrity it is that. Instead of growing to the level of the 3 mentioned above, we are happier to be semi- stagnant with the USU's and SJSU's of the western sports community. Puke. Maybe we change our slogan, "Wyoming - the next Idaho of college sports".

Take note, this is one of the factors that people don't realize. Why give the resources to one coach but vehemently resist giving the same resources to the previous coach? Not what I would expect out of a professional unless he had a personal agenda.

 

[Wyolie Coyote]

Pssst...hey guys, I think Burman has a profile on here. His name is Tweaked. hahahaha

Or Visor Hair.

Or maybe I understand the business and I'm backing a damn good AD.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

My view of Barta was that he was biding his time. If memory serves, he didn't hire or fire and didn't make waves. The Wyoming way. I don't know about his administrative team like others here do.

Well, Barta extended Joe Glenn's contract a couple months after a 4-7 (2-6 MWC) football season. That seems way more suspect than extending Christensen after winning a bowl game and earning MWC coach of the year honors.

I haven't met anyone who was a Lee Moon fan, and he won a regular season MWC basketball championship. So it beats me on how people rate ADs. It's not so much a pro-Burman, anti-Burman conversation I'm having. I just don't understand the logic behind a lot of these opinions when I compare Burman to past ADs. There doesn't seem to be a huge difference to me in the decision making (see my first paragraph).

DC got his contract extension BEFORE the bowl game.

Ok, before, after the bowl game....point remains the same, it was after a Coach of the Year season. Glenn got his after going 2-6 and Barta was an "outstanding" AD. And Championships are what we care about and the last one we saw came from Lee Moon, who was loved by absolutely no one.

 

[VisorHair]

Let's research before you talk out the side of your neck. Heath revitalized the program's APR! College athletics is a chain reaction. Every coach/AD is continually cleaning up past mistakes. Moon buried this athletic department by 10 years. CJC is now the most successful it's ever been - Currently has the most donors of any MWC school. Intercollegiate Athletics is a BUSINESS. There has never been more money flowing into Wyoming Athletics than today. That in itself is a huge success alone.

Heath was given resources (a full time academic supervisor, full time academic liaison / tutor, and several - 20+ student volunteer support staff persons for daily tutoring). Not impressed, in fact, shame on the administration for not giving the previous regime those tools.
CJC is the most successful - depends on how you measure success. More money now (on the books) than ever before - you are correct - as far as stand alone CJC. As a direct result of seat premiums, jacked rate levels of donations for certain perks like parking, increased prices at both the annual auctions, increased prices at golf functions, etc.

We still have an athletic department that is glad we aren't competing with the likes of Utah, BYU, and TCU any longer, so that our athletic budget more closely matches our current level of competition. If there is anything that screams mediocrity it is that. Instead of growing to the level of the 3 mentioned above, we are happier to be semi- stagnant with the USU's and SJSU's of the western sports community. Puke. Maybe we change our slogan, "Wyoming - the next Idaho of college sports".

Take note, this is one of the factors that people don't realize. Why give the resources to one coach but vehemently resist giving the same resources to the previous coach? Not what I would expect out of a professional unless he had a personal agenda.

Umm, bc Burman made the move to bring in the extra help which was obviously a need. Does that make sense or do I need to explain further?