The Viability of Wyoming Football

[kansasCowboy]

For God's sake. This is not a mess. This a really young team learning 1)how to compete and 2) learning how to win. Today they learned how to not quit, a lesson that might extend to the fan base.

As long as we have idiot fans like this we will
Never move down to FCS where we belong. Wyoming football is dead.

It's fans like this who keep us going, actually. If it were up to you we drop a division. It was said above that we would be considered a middle tier team in Big Sky . Which mean we would have to do exactly what we're trying to do now. Build to be successful. Then it would be the same. This coach is mediocre, get rid of him. On to the next. Till we are right back to where we are today. And then we will have you and others saying, "well, let's just fold. We obviously can't compete at any level."
And we would have fans like him telling you, "see where your thought process took us?"
But no, don't blame yourself. You only complain when we do have success...(8-5 a few years back)

Agreed. We will never have consistent success if we fire coaches every time they struggle.

Well, let's take a look into that "successful" 8-5 season. It included two wins over FCS teams, wins over UNLV, New Mexico, and CSU, who were a combined 6-30 that season, and one over Bowling Green, who was 5-7. Yes, we beat Air Force and SDSU, who both had winning records, but their records were equally inflated by poor opponents. So, when Temple (hardly a world-beater, but a solid team) lined up and kicked the living shit out of us in a bowl game, why was anyone surprised? We were nowhere near their personnel or overall quality, and realistically, if we didn't play the schedule we did, we weren't a bowl team.

My point is, again, an existential one of what exactly are you getting out of UW football when this is the winningest season since the turn of the century? What does it do for you? Are you going to throw tons of $$$ at buying tickets and going to games when this is the best the product gets? You're faced with a reality of how much you legitimately CAN succeed at the D-I (or FBS) level. You can keep sitting around, hoping we'll revert back to 1996 or 1988, but I'm telling you it ain't happening. The landscape of college football has shifted FAR too much and we're falling too far behind.

I'll get back with you momentarily...

 

[Wyovanian]

For God's sake. This is not a mess. This a really young team learning 1)how to compete and 2) learning how to win. Today they learned how to not quit, a lesson that might extend to the fan base.

As long as we have idiot fans like this we will
Never move down to FCS where we belong. Wyoming football is dead.

Oh look, the village idiot thought he'd give his two cents, but wants a discount...

The problem with people like you is you know so many things that just aren't so. You have zero clue as to how collegiate athletics work as you continue to cling to false notions. You can keep jumping as much as you want, but you won't escape Earth's gravity...

 

[Wyovanian]

Talk of going FCS is crazy talk. End of story.

There also is a fundamental lack of understanding of what FCS is and is not. For one, IT''S NOT DIVISION II. Sorry, equating FCS with NCAA Division II drives me nuts. FCS is a SUBDIVISION of NCAA Division I. It only applies to FOOTBALL. Schools that participate in FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP SUBDIVISION (FCS) are NCAA Division I for all other men's and women's sports. All other Division I schools that play football are in FOOTBALL BOWL SUBDIVISION (FBS).

Here's the NCAA's official explanation of the different divisions: http://www.ncaa.org/about/who-we-are/membership/divisional-differences-and-history-multidivision-classification" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's the NCAA's description of Division I: http://www.ncaa.org/about?division=d1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Uh, yes, we're all very much aware of what FCS football is and that it's not the same as Division II. What exactly is your point?

And to the posters who commented, "Oh, you've got such a fundamental lack of understanding of how college athletics works, blah blah blah blah blah," you haven't explained in any sort of hard reasoning as to why dropping to FCS isn't a viable option. All you've done is repeat over and over that it's a stupid idea that doesn't work - without explaining why.

You realize that Montana and Southern Utah's athletic departments operate at half of the operational deficit that our does, right?

They also operate with a fraction of our revenue.

Dropping to FCS is not a viable option. It will cost you the vast majority of your donor base, millions and millions in sponsorships and millions in TV revenue.

We have two options- play FBS football, or don't play football. That's it.

 

[Asmodeanreborn]

We have two options- play FBS football, or don't play football. That's it.

I completely agree with this point. And at some point, those could certainly become the choices the University faces.

 

[NowherePoke]

Talk of going FCS is crazy talk. End of story.

There also is a fundamental lack of understanding of what FCS is and is not. For one, IT''S NOT DIVISION II. Sorry, equating FCS with NCAA Division II drives me nuts. FCS is a SUBDIVISION of NCAA Division I. It only applies to FOOTBALL. Schools that participate in FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP SUBDIVISION (FCS) are NCAA Division I for all other men's and women's sports. All other Division I schools that play football are in FOOTBALL BOWL SUBDIVISION (FBS).

Here's the NCAA's official explanation of the different divisions: http://www.ncaa.org/about/who-we-are/membership/divisional-differences-and-history-multidivision-classification" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's the NCAA's description of Division I: http://www.ncaa.org/about?division=d1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Uh, yes, we're all very much aware of what FCS football is and that it's not the same as Division II. What exactly is your point?

And to the posters who commented, "Oh, you've got such a fundamental lack of understanding of how college athletics works, blah blah blah blah blah," you haven't explained in any sort of hard reasoning as to why dropping to FCS isn't a viable option. All you've done is repeat over and over that it's a stupid idea that doesn't work - without explaining why.

You realize that Montana and Southern Utah's athletic departments operate at half of the operational deficit that our does, right?

I wasn't one of the posters that said that, but let me address why we will not move down:

1. Finances- We immediately lose a number of critical revenue streams. First we lose approximately $3M/yr in conference payouts for Primary/Secondary media rights, NCAA Tournament credits, and other misc (conf title game revenue, MWCT revenue, etc.). Depending on the year that number could be much higher as the MWC includes schools capable of reaching high level bowl games and delivering additional NCAA credits. Neither of those potential streams are available in a FCS/one bid league. That's the quick, quantifiable value. The secondary loss will be in ticket sales, CJC membership, merchandise, etc. How much those decline with a drop down is only speculation at this point. The third aspect is institutional support and the willingness of the state to provide athletics funding such as the $5M boost coming up.

2. Impact on other stakeholders- I addressed this in my earlier post, but the coaches and student athletes in the other MWC sports at UW would be adversely impacted by the drop in stature/competition.

3. Institutional fit- although strictly speaking we are talking about an athletic affiliation, the decision makers (Univ Pres, BOT, etc.) have the academic mission of the University in their scope of responsibility and they will be loathe to switch affiliation from peer research institutions such as USU/CSU to directional colleges and former teacher schools such as Northern Colorado. What does that do to your ability to recruit students on the academic side?

4. Front Porch- that leads me to the final item which is: why even have intercollegiate athletics? On the surface it uses resources that could be deployed elsewhere. The reason is that it is a highly visible promotion tool for the school. That declines dramatically by going from FCS to FBS.

Look back through the history of program movement between classifications since they were first established (1978 I believe). Many, many programs have moved up. Several have folded completely (mostly former PCAA/Big West schools). Almost nobody has gone from FBS/1-A to FCS/1-AA. There are reasons for that.

 

[laxwyo]

Football makes money that subsidizes other sports at Wyoming. If we ever start losing money, then we might drop it all together

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

I might've missed it but I didn't see a single comment about Division II.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

Football makes money that subsidizes other sports at Wyoming. If we ever start losing money, then we might drop it all together

Latest stats I could find were from 2008, but Wyoming football spent $25 mil and made $25 mil.

With increased coaching pay and no increase in TV or ticket revenue, I can't imagine that number has swung into the money making end of things.

It's a myth that college football is a cash cow. Especially at Wyoming.

 

[bladerunnr]

Football makes money that subsidizes other sports at Wyoming. If we ever start losing money, then we might drop it all together

Latest stats I could find were from 2008, but Wyoming football spent $25 mil and made $25 mil.

With increased coaching pay and no increase in TV or ticket revenue, I can't imagine that number has swung into the money making end of things.

It's a myth that college football is a cash cow. Especially at Wyoming.

I suspect you're right. Plus, I hate that we have to play a body bag game or 2 every year. This year, there isn't one. But last year, there were 2. I can't believe that kind of publicity is good for the school. Still, I can't imagine UW without football. I'm afraid were going to have to grit our teeth and maybe drink ourselves silly for a few more years.

 

[WestWYOPoke]

We have two options- play FBS football, or don't play football. That's it.

Absolutely correct...this sentence sums up the entire "move to FCS" bullshit movement. That is not an option, the ONLY options are right there in the quote.

 

[COS Cowboy]

Look back through the history of program movement between classifications since they were first established (1978 I believe). Many, many programs have moved up. Several have folded completely (mostly former PCAA/Big West schools). Almost nobody has gone from FBS/1-A to FCS/1-AA. There are reasons for that.

I can't think of a single example of a team moving from 1-a to 1-aa. Those of you who advocate this, show me an example of a team that struggled at 1-A and went to 1-AA and was successful. I don't think such a team exists.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Ridiculous. If nothing else, the MWC is a damn fine BBall Conference and a good home for all of WYO sports. If anything, perhaps we evaluate how our limited resources are utilized and that would be a fair debate, IMO.

Likely, IMO, the P5 is going to split and we will ultimately be in another division. Will it be FCS? Will it be a tweener league between P5 and FCS? What teams will be in it? Who knows. I think there is a reasonable chance the P5 ultimately splits and I'm very certain we will remain in whatever wasteland is left behind. Hopefully it is still better than FCS.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Football makes money that subsidizes other sports at Wyoming. If we ever start losing money, then we might drop it all together

Latest stats I could find were from 2008, but Wyoming football spent $25 mil and made $25 mil.

With increased coaching pay and no increase in TV or ticket revenue, I can't imagine that number has swung into the money making end of things.

It's a myth that college football is a cash cow. Especially at Wyoming.

I suspect you're right. Plus, I hate that we have to play a body bag game or 2 every year. This year, there isn't one. But last year, there were 2. I can't believe that kind of publicity is good for the school. Still, I can't imagine UW without football. I'm afraid were going to have to grit our teeth and maybe drink ourselves silly for a few more years.

He is not right; he is listing old TOTAL athletic budget (old one at that). We don't spend close to $25 mill on football. The best data I could find was from 2013-2014.

Expenditures were about $7.5 million for football.

Revenues were about $9.6 million for football for return of about $2 million.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[OrediggerPoke]

Dropping to FCS is not a viable option. It will cost you the vast majority of your donor base, millions and millions in sponsorships and millions in TV revenue.

We have two options- play FBS football, or don't play football. That's it.

Absolutely agree!

None of these numbers figure in the amount of donor dollars that the football program brings in both directly to the program and indirectly to other sports and for capital improvements. When all is said and done, football is a net money maker for a variety of reasons.

And...if we ever left the MWC, you can bet it would spell disaster for many of our other sports programs. One must also keep in mind that FBS football indirectly subsidizes women's sports through the application of Title IX. You can safely assume that dropping football to FCS or all together will cause other programs to be cut as well.