The Front Porch?

[307bball]

Go back and re-read the claims. A UW degree puts you at a disadvantage relative to the same degree from other universities. No data to back that b.s. claim up.

Your discussion of job location, overall struggles of higher education, etc. are a separate discussion. I don't think it's really that debatable that geography will dictate wages. However, the claim was within a market, UW degree is disadvantaged comparatively. Of course that's nonsense.

The rest? Yeah, academia is facing a lot of hurdles. Higher education has allowed itself to slip down the slope of irrelevance. I predict industry will increasingly provide their own training further diminishing the importance of higher education except for some specialized fields (medicine for example) and things like history or social science.

So....all this discussion that puts UW right back, at best, equivalent to our peer institutions with respect to "quality of educational programs". This is not a good place to be. If we are equal with all the people we are recruiting against for athletes and students in general, then those prospective students are making enrollment decisions on factors that Wyoming evidently does not stack up well against.

I would consider CSU a "peer" institution....but they are kicking the crap out of us in student enrollment. Since '02, UW has contracted from 12,766 to 10,813 based on UW's own published data https://www.uwyo.edu/oia/student-data/index.html. That is just over a 15% loss! In that same period, CSU has grown from 27,290 to 34,200. Utah State has risen as well...seeing a ~12% increase in enroolement over that span. Higher education may be struggling as a sector but UW is getting the brunt of it even compared to our peers. Are thier academic programs or athletic programs miles ahead of UW's?...not really.....but students are voting with thier enrollment decisions.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

So....all this discussion that puts UW right back, at best, equivalent to our peer institutions with respect to "quality of educational programs". This is not a good place to be. If we are equal with all the people we are recruiting against for athletes and students in general, then those prospective students are making enrollment decisions on factors that Wyoming evidently does not stack up well against.

I would consider CSU a "peer" institution....but they are kicking the crap out of us in student enrollment. Since '02, UW has contracted from 12,766 to 10,813 based on UW's own published data https://www.uwyo.edu/oia/student-data/index.html. That is just over a 15% loss! In that same period, CSU has grown from 27,290 to 34,200. Utah State has risen as well...seeing a ~12% increase in enroolement over that span. Higher education may be struggling as a sector but UW is getting the brunt of it even compared to our peers. Are thier academic programs or athletic programs miles ahead of UW's?...not really.....but students are voting with thier enrollment decisions.

So, in Denver, 3 grads with degrees from csu, usu, and WYO in the same job with the same credentials other than degree granting institution. The UWYO grad is disadvantaged and gets paid less?

That's the debate.

 

[laxwyo]

The current average home price to income ratio is in excess of 5x. It's at all-time highs. In the 80s it was in the 2-3x range. Homes are not affordable to younger people. This is largely due to Boomer "NIMBY" policies and Boomers treating homes as investment vehicles, driving up prices to unsustainable levels.

There are few well-paying jobs and career paths available to younger people these days. And for the lucky ones who do, most of their disposable income is spent on rent / housing costs and other necessities. Why is that? Boomers outsourced many of our jobs overseas and flooded our country with H1B Indians. Step outside of your bubble and speak to younger people and you will get a sense of the current state of American society.

There is nothing whiny about the younger generations who have been dealt a terrible hand and little hope due to Boomer incompetence.

Like they have consistently done throughout their lives, Boomers have selfishly "lived it up", outsourced American jobs, over-indebted our economy and created 3rd world-like living conditions throughout America. The country will be significantly better off once their generation finally fades into irrelevance.

This is, in fact, not about boomers buying homes. It’s is about the federal government running huge deficits and printing money. Houses have value and the dollar is losing it. There. Go learn some basic econ. Yes, boomer fiscal policy definitely to blame. As someone else mentioned, my SS invested along with my 401k would probably let me retire by 55.

 

[307bball]

So, in Denver, 3 grads with degrees from csu, usu, and WYO in the same job with the same credentials other than degree granting institution. The UWYO grad is disadvantaged and gets paid less?

That's the debate.

That is "a" debate....and not a very interesting one. This particular thread is about a lot of topics...one of which has captured your attention pertaining to the value of a degree for a subset of people...I believe the quote that has gotten your attention was this one: "But I am not going to sit here and pretend like going to UW is a good option for those who are ambitious and want to be successful in very competitive career paths. You will be fighting an uphill battle. That's just the truth." By itself, there is not enough specificity to judge the claim but previous quotes from the same poster mention a career path that is saturated with ivy-league graduates. For getting into and advancing in certain high-paying competetive career paths, that network effect is literally why people pay a premium to go to those places...it's real and it's measurable. I'm not terribly interested in this part of that discussion because that has never been a student that realistically considered going to UW.


If it's all the same to you, I'll try and wrest your attention to something beside the narrow point made above. As I said before, I don't see a great value difference in a degree from Wyoming or Wyoming-like institutions. Yet we are seeing that UW's enrollment figures lag even behind others who we consider ourselves to be competetive with...I'm now not talking about Stanford or MIT. Despite offereing higher education at a reasonable cost that offers just as much upside for job prospects when you consider career paths not dominated by the network effects mentioned previously, UW struggles mightily to attract students. This is in comparison to peers. Why is that?

 

[ragtimejoe1]

That is "a" debate....and not a very interesting one. This particular thread is about a lot of topics...one of which has captured your attention pertaining to the value of a degree for a subset of people...I believe the quote that has gotten your attention was this one: "But I am not going to sit here and pretend like going to UW is a good option for those who are ambitious and want to be successful in very competitive career paths. You will be fighting an uphill battle. That's just the truth." By itself, there is not enough specificity to judge the claim but previous quotes from the same poster mention a career path that is saturated with ivy-league graduates. For getting into and advancing in certain high-paying competetive career paths, that network effect is literally why people pay a premium to go to those places...it's real and it's measurable. I'm not terribly interested in this part of that discussion because that has never been a student that realistically considered going to UW.


If it's all the same to you, I'll try and wrest your attention to something beside the narrow point made above. As I said before, I don't see a great value difference in a degree from Wyoming or Wyoming-like institutions. Yet we are seeing that UW's enrollment figures lag even behind others who we consider ourselves to be competetive with...I'm now not talking about Stanford or MIT. Despite offereing higher education at a reasonable cost that offers just as much upside for job prospects when you consider career paths not dominated by the network effects mentioned previously, UW struggles mightily to attract students. This is in comparison to peers. Why is that?

It's not that complicated. Small state population with declining youth demographic coupled with an out-of-state tuition rate that costs out-of-state students way more to attend UW than their comparative in-state option. We just settled that the degree-granting institution doesn't matter amongst our peers-- we all do a reasonable job. In a tough economy, it's pretty straightforward.

 

[McPeachy]

This thread sucks ass.

 

[cowpoke pride]

This thread sucks ass.

Is there a way to throw up 2 thumbs ups for a single post?

 

[OrediggerPoke]

This thread sucks ass.

Absolutely agree.

I don't understand the point of the multitude of posts stating that their kids are going to other schools because they are 'ranked higher.' Cool, if they believe rankings will fulfill them, by all means. I will personally continue my streak of kicking the ivy league school grad's ass all over the court room.

 

[307bball]

It's not that complicated. Small state population with declining youth demographic coupled with an out-of-state tuition rate that costs out-of-state students way more to attend UW than their comparative in-state option. We just settled that the degree-granting institution doesn't matter amongst our peers-- we all do a reasonable job. In a tough economy, it's pretty straightforward.

This declining enrollment in comparison peer institutions is the ultimate sticky wicket...if it's as you say, due to this youth demographic, then that is about as out of our control as it gets. I don't think CSU or Utah State has cheap out-of-state tuition....but they benifit from a rising population tide that is lifting all boats. Absent that, Wyoming is not lookin great. I think a few posters have said the quiet part out loud at this point ..... a large portion of Wyoming-ites are not in favor of changes that would greatly increase the population. I just don't see a pathway for UW in college athletics outside of the lowest rungs. Academics still could be changed.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

This declining enrollment in comparison peer institutions is the ultimate sticky wicket...if it's as you say, due to this youth demographic, then that is about as out of our control as it gets. I don't think CSU or Utah State has cheap out-of-state tuition....but they benifit from a rising population tide that is lifting all boats. Absent that, Wyoming is not lookin great. I think a few posters have said the quiet part out loud at this point ..... a large portion of Wyoming-ites are not in favor of changes that would greatly increase the population. I just don't see a pathway for UW in college athletics outside of the lowest rungs. Academics still could be changed.

Enrollment will go the way of the state demographics.

Athletics will go the way of investment. Investment will be driven by creativity and fans' motivation to win. Let's see how all that shakes out before planting a headstone on UW. State puts 100 mill in investment account and fans pay an extra $40/person/game talent fee (still a reasonable ticket price) and we're now working with close to 7 mill for NIL.

 

[UWYOmillionaire]

No one wants their hard-earned money to be wasted on 18 year old kids throwing a ball around.

If someone wants to light their money on fire by donating it to teenagers who are going to blow it on cars and other nonsense, then so be it. But don't take it from people who are struggling in a tough economy and actually need it to survive.

People will look back at these times and ask "what the hell were they thinking?". Doing idiotic things just because other idiots are doing it still makes one an idiot.

If you have disposable income to burn, then give it to academics. You know....the people who are actually innovating and attempting to advance mankind. Not to some sh!thead kid who doesn't understand the value of a dollar.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

No one wants their hard-earned money to be wasted on 18 year old kids throwing a ball around.

If someone wants to light their money on fire by donating it to teenagers who are going to blow it on cars and other nonsense, then so be it. But don't take it from people who are struggling in a tough economy and actually need it to survive.

People will look back at these times and ask "what the hell were they thinking?". Doing idiotic things just because other idiots are doing it still makes one an idiot.

If you have disposable income to burn, then give it to academics. You know....the people who are actually innovating and attempting to advance mankind. Not to some sh!thead kid who doesn't understand the value of a dollar.

Unless you are one of those 18 year old shithead kids throwing the ball around and making billions for a bunch college administrators, tv execs, coaches, etc. while you didn't get any of it.

I missed this as well, but, I'll give kudos to TB on this. Good attempt at putting some figures to all of this. https://gowyo.com/news/2025/9/10/ge...rates-206-million-annual-economic-impact.aspx

He needs to now take it 1 step further with forecasting to the best of our ability if we spend 0, x, y, or z on nil, will it change the economic impact of athletics? Again, kudos to TB on this one. Something that was needed. I don't know enough about this type of analysis to critique the methodology, but the company seems solid. I'm assuming the data is good. An annual average impact of over 200 mill is nothing to shake a stick at and could certainly warrant further state investment..

 

[Bosler]

No one wants their hard-earned money to be wasted on 18 year old kids throwing a ball around.

C'mon, man. That horse left the barn a century ago...and has accelerated in the last few decades as people have joyously pumped tens of billions of dollars into the college sports industrial complex.

 

[Wyokie]

C'mon, man. That horse left the barn a century ago...and has accelerated in the last few decades as people have joyously pumped tens of billions of dollars into the college sports industrial complex.

It's what got SMU in deep shit in the late 80s. Remember the Death Penalty Years of 1987 & 1988 for them?

 

[sandiegopoke]

Those graduates will just leave, same as from every program.

I firmly believe that is the responsibility of the state and local governments to provide a no cost high school education to all residents and to provide a low-cost college education to those who pursue it. It's up to the residents and business owners to provide jobs for those people, not the government. Wyoming residents don't appear to want businesses that would hire the people. It's always been, "We don't want things to change."

 

[LawPoke]

Absolutely agree.

I don't understand the point of the multitude of posts stating that their kids are going to other schools because they are 'ranked higher.' Cool, if they believe rankings will fulfill them, by all means. I will personally continue my streak of kicking the ivy league school grad's ass all over the court room.

I actually don't disagree - having been one of those that weighed in with a kid that did go elsewhere. My only point was - UW is not attractive to a lot of folks, including dyed in the wool Pokes fans from birth, and we are one of few regional schools that are LOSING enrollment. Demographics tell a sizeable part of the story. Absolutely. But there is more to the story and my view - although opposed by many on this board - is that UW is simply not that attractive and has very little to offer in terms of academic excellence. There are a few programs here and there, for sure, but by and large, UW is mediocre at best. The enrollment numbers, at least in part, back that up. So we can have a stellar front porch - and I support building it with athletics - but if you don't have any way to close the deal by attaching at least a livable house to that porch, UW (and, using a similar argument, the state as a whole) will continue along its road of decline.

 

[PorkerPoke]

I firmly believe that is the responsibility of the state and local governments to provide a no cost high school education to all residents and to provide a low-cost college education to those who pursue it. It's up to the residents and business owners to provide jobs for those people, not the government. Wyoming residents don't appear to want businesses that would hire the people. It's always been, "We don't want things to change."

State and local governments are funded through taxes imposed either directly on individuals or indirectly on businesses that pass the costs to the individual.

Nothing is free for everyone because someone has to pay and the more freebies the more various individuals pay.

Wyoming is and has sustained being one of the lowest cost universities for both in-state and out of state tuition rates. It has been done with a smaller tax footprint stomped on the individual resident since minerals tend to be a national commodity instead of a local one.

There are some things government (as chosen by the individuals) can do to encourage and entice businesses to locate within their jurisdiction that would benefit the economy with greater opportunity access. Take the private Cheyenne LEADS which has to work with the Cheyenne and Laramie County governments to encourage economic development and job growth. If Cheyenne was purely “we refuse to change” it would still be a sleepy capital town 100 miles from the Denver airport. Cheyenne benefits being close to the “front range”.

Wyoming is not a grow exponentially state because the geography is not exactly enticing enough to make it an in demand location to move to. Winters are long and in much of the state the winter wind is nasty. The airlines consider it fly over country and the two biggest population centers only beat out Maine, Vermont and West Virginia for the biggest 2 cities. Wyoming still has a smaller overall population with substantially greater distance between the population centers. It is a formula that favors isolation rather than encouraging growth.

I love my state of birth and it’s a nice summer time place to visit but the economic room was so small it pushed me away decades ago. I sent my kids to UW and they as well took their education and put it to use in other states successfully. If Wyoming can find a way to be a business investment destination the demand for skilled individuals will increase and UW will have to adapt to being a leader to help meet the needs.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

I actually don't disagree - having been one of those that weighed in with a kid that did go elsewhere. My only point was - UW is not attractive to a lot of folks, including dyed in the wool Pokes fans from birth, and we are one of few regional schools that are LOSING enrollment. Demographics tell a sizeable part of the story. Absolutely. But there is more to the story and my view - although opposed by many on this board - is that UW is simply not that attractive and has very little to offer in terms of academic excellence. There are a few programs here and there, for sure, but by and large, UW is mediocre at best. The enrollment numbers, at least in part, back that up. So we can have a stellar front porch - and I support building it with athletics - but if you don't have any way to close the deal by attaching at least a livable house to that porch, UW (and, using a similar argument, the state as a whole) will continue along its road of decline.

Every time that I have been in the market for a new 'livable house,' I started by looking at the size, structure and maintenance of the house. Next I looked at the location, lot size, amenities, covenants/restrictions, etc.. I can't recall ever giving a shit whether the closest sports team was any good or not.

I absolutely support building the 'livable' campus with funds for amenities that appeal to all students. The new dorms are a great example and a long needed improvement. A million bucks of taxpayer or student funds for the pocket of a transfer QB, no thanks.

 

[bladerunnr]

Every time that I have been in the market for a new 'livable house,' I started by looking at the size, structure and maintenance of the house. Next I looked at the location, lot size, amenities, covenants/restrictions, etc.. I can't recall ever giving a shit whether the closest sports team was any good or not.

I absolutely support building the 'livable' campus with funds for amenities that appeal to all students. The new dorms are a great example and a long needed improvement. A million bucks of taxpayer or student funds for the pocket of a transfer QB, no thanks.

Actually, you got it completely backwards. When looking for a house, the most important factor is location. You give me a choice of a 10,000 square foot mansion in North Dakota or a 1500 sq. foot cabin in Vail, I'm moving to Vail. And that's the problem for UW. Laramie is not an attractive town to live in for most kids. Plus, Wyoming hasn't legalized weed. So that's another big problem if you want kids to come to your campus.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

How many high school grads in WYO go out of state for college?