The Front Porch?

[ZapPoke]

Those are not the rankings I see when I look at the US News website. Are the rankings you listed for a specific program?

I looked at the actual rankings and you are correct. I have to admit I got lazy and asked AI for rankings. I asked again and got the same results. Maybe I am not using AI correctly but it stands by the results I reported.

 

[PAPoke]

I looked at the actual rankings and you are correct. I have to admit I got lazy and asked AI for rankings. I asked again and got the same results. Maybe I am not using AI correctly but it stands by the results I reported.

Generative AI prefers "alternative facts". More often than not, you have to fact-check it. Nice job, Boomer

 

[Midwest Cowboy]

So far, UW is top of the list for my son. He has done well and will have a bunch to choose from next year. Colorado schools and a few SEC schools are on the list. Division 1 sports are important from an experience point of view. But I think just having them is good enough for him. Making him apply to Wisconsin. All I can say is that the UW grads that I know have done well in Wisconsin. One might be our next governor (although ironically I hope not).

 

[UWYOmillionaire]

You have a very distorted understanding of history. Nearly every problem you mention was actually created before my time. Social Security? Way before my time. If I could have invested the money paid into social security I would have a much more comfortable retirement. Medicare? Again, created by the previous generation. Most prosperous time? When I graduated in 1981 the unemployment rate was 7.8%. By the end of 1981 it was 8.5%. When I bought my first house in 1989 the mortgage interest rate was 10.5%. But, yeah we had it so easy. I worked 60 hour weeks as a construction laborer over summers so I could minimize student loans. I lived in a basement apartment that never got above 60 degrees and ate macaroni and cheese and tomato soup. No cushy dorm with a wide selection of food in a cafeteria. But I guess that’s because I am selfish and had it so easy. Every generation has had their share of challenges. It’s just that they weren’t all a bunch of whiny babies.

The current average home price to income ratio is in excess of 5x. It's at all-time highs. In the 80s it was in the 2-3x range. Homes are not affordable to younger people. This is largely due to Boomer "NIMBY" policies and Boomers treating homes as investment vehicles, driving up prices to unsustainable levels.

There are few well-paying jobs and career paths available to younger people these days. And for the lucky ones who do, most of their disposable income is spent on rent / housing costs and other necessities. Why is that? Boomers outsourced many of our jobs overseas and flooded our country with H1B Indians. Step outside of your bubble and speak to younger people and you will get a sense of the current state of American society.

There is nothing whiny about the younger generations who have been dealt a terrible hand and little hope due to Boomer incompetence.

Like they have consistently done throughout their lives, Boomers have selfishly "lived it up", outsourced American jobs, over-indebted our economy and created 3rd world-like living conditions throughout America. The country will be significantly better off once their generation finally fades into irrelevance.

 

[UWYOmillionaire]

Did you attend UWYO?

I did, and unlike many here I work in a very competitive field that is concentrated with Ivy League graduates where being from UW was a massive, massive disadvantage.

If someone lacks ambition and doesn't care to reach their full earnings / career potential, then go ahead and go to UW. Go to any school for that matter, it doesn't really matter in that case.

But I am not going to sit here and pretend like going to UW is a good option for those who are ambitious and want to be successful in very competitive career paths. You will be fighting an uphill battle. That's just the truth.

 

[LanderPoke]

I did, and unlike many here I work in a very competitive field that is concentrated with Ivy League graduates where being from UW was a massive, massive disadvantage.

If someone lacks ambition and doesn't care to reach their full earnings / career potential, then go ahead and go to UW. Go to any school for that matter, it doesn't really matter in that case.

But I am not going to sit here and pretend like going to UW is a good option for those who are ambitious and want to be successful in very competitive career paths. You will be fighting an uphill battle. That's just the truth.

Lmao oh do enlighten us

 

[ragtimejoe1]

I did, and unlike many here I work in a very competitive field that is concentrated with Ivy League graduates where being from UW was a massive, massive disadvantage.

If someone lacks ambition and doesn't care to reach their full earnings / career potential, then go ahead and go to UW. Go to any school for that matter, it doesn't really matter in that case.

But I am not going to sit here and pretend like going to UW is a good option for those who are ambitious and want to be successful in very competitive career paths. You will be fighting an uphill battle. That's just the truth.

I do suppose that you have valid data to analyze earning potential in the same field (really several fields to back up your claim) with a UWYO degree versus another University removing all other confounding variables, of course?

 

[UWYOmillionaire]

Lmao oh do enlighten us

(1) It's a small school, (2) there are a relatively small number of successful alumni, and (3) given the divisive nature of my comments, I obviously want to remain anonymous. So I can't get more specific than that.

I do suppose that you have valid data to analyze earning potential in the same field (really several fields to back up your claim) with a UWYO degree versus another University removing all other confounding variables, of course?

I don't need to run an analysis for something like this, it's common sense.

Tell me how many people you find working at Goldman Sachs from UW, and tell me how many are from Harvard. Or OpenAI or any other number of top companies?

 

[ragtimejoe1]

(1) It's a small school, (2) there are a relatively small number of successful alumni, and (3) given the divisive nature of my comments, I obviously want to remain anonymous. So I can't get more specific than that.


I don't need to run an analysis for something like this, it's common sense.

Tell me how many people you find working at Goldman Sachs from UW, and tell me how many are from Harvard. Or OpenAI or any other number of top companies?

I'm not sure how Ivy League does it but my backwoods hick degree from UWYO taught me that without data and proper analysis, it is nothing more than opinion.

 

[UWYOmillionaire]

I'm not sure how Ivy League does it but my backwoods hick degree from UWYO taught me that without data and proper analysis, it is nothing more than opinion.

If you're trying to make the argument that the education and career opportunities with a UW degree are comparable to an Ivy League school, then I'm sorry but you've clearly lost the plot and can't be helped.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

If you're trying to make the argument that the education and career opportunities with a UW degree are comparable to an Ivy League school, then I'm sorry but you've clearly lost the plot and can't be helped.

Strawman.

Let's go with csu or cu or ok state or penn state. Show me data that demonstrates a person with a degree from one of those will earn more than someone with a degree from UWYO in the same field accounting for all other confounding variables. Do this for several careers to avoid bias of a few outlier degree programs.

 

[Brew_Poke]

The current average home price to income ratio is in excess of 5x. It's at all-time highs. In the 80s it was in the 2-3x range. Homes are not affordable to younger people. This is largely due to Boomer "NIMBY" policies and Boomers treating homes as investment vehicles, driving up prices to unsustainable levels.

There are few well-paying jobs and career paths available to younger people these days. And for the lucky ones who do, most of their disposable income is spent on rent / housing costs and other necessities. Why is that? Boomers outsourced many of our jobs overseas and flooded our country with H1B Indians. Step outside of your bubble and speak to younger people and you will get a sense of the current state of American society.

There is nothing whiny about the younger generations who have been dealt a terrible hand and little hope due to Boomer incompetence.

Like they have consistently done throughout their lives, Boomers have selfishly "lived it up", outsourced American jobs, over-indebted our economy and created 3rd world-like living conditions throughout America. The country will be significantly better off once their generation finally fades into irrelevance.

Current 20-something: I work six side hustles for employment, and in each my boss is an app. Health care, please.

 

[PAPoke]

I applied to a UW Master’s program with a 2.35 GPA. Academically, I shouldn't have been admitted, but the committee chose to “unlock the extraordinary” by looking at my practical potential instead of my spreadsheet. They gave me a shot via a GA position that valued "learning by doing" over a transcript. They looked at why my GPA sucked (I was doing work as an undergraduate that was typically reserved for full-time staff).

Today, I’m one of those “high-paid administrators” people love to use as a punching bag. I’m a success story because Wyoming provided the real-world experience and the requisite degree I needed to thrive. That is the true value of this university: we aren't an Ivy League feeder; we are a land-grant mission that prioritizes access and community. When you take a chance on the “unqualified" or "unwanted," you may land on a Josh Allen, a Dick Cheney, or a Larry Nance Jr. now and then. Someone who can put UW on the map. The problem is, we haven't done that in quite some time.

My frustration is that the specific GA pathway (and many similar ones across the University) that saved me no longer exists. We used to pump graduates into my field, but the funding vanished. Now, Wyoming has to hire externally because we’ve stopped training our own. That is a massive unforced error.

The land-grant mission isn’t about exclusive prestige; it’s about using unique strengths to make Wyoming and the world a better place. Because Wyoming took a chance on me, I’ve been able to thrive and give back. That’s not a failure of standards; it’s a mission accomplished.

 

[ZapPoke]

The current average home price to income ratio is in excess of 5x. It's at all-time highs. In the 80s it was in the 2-3x range. Homes are not affordable to younger people. This is largely due to Boomer "NIMBY" policies and Boomers treating homes as investment vehicles, driving up prices to unsustainable levels.

There are few well-paying jobs and career paths available to younger people these days. And for the lucky ones who do, most of their disposable income is spent on rent / housing costs and other necessities. Why is that? Boomers outsourced many of our jobs overseas and flooded our country with H1B Indians. Step outside of your bubble and speak to younger people and you will get a sense of the current state of American society.

There is nothing whiny about the younger generations who have been dealt a terrible hand and little hope due to Boomer incompetence.

Like they have consistently done throughout their lives, Boomers have selfishly "lived it up", outsourced American jobs, over-indebted our economy and created 3rd world-like living conditions throughout America. The country will be significantly better off once their generation finally fades into irrelevance.

I think I see the problem. Replace the word “boomers” with “democrats” and I can mostly agree with your assertions.

 

[BigO4WYO]

Oh god. I can’t wait until we have some incoming transfers to talk about

 

[BigO4WYO]

Right on cue. Tyler Hughes just committed.

 

[307bball]

Strawman.

Let's go with csu or cu or ok state or penn state. Show me data that demonstrates a person with a degree from one of those will earn more than someone with a degree from UWYO in the same field accounting for all other confounding variables. Do this for several careers to avoid bias of a few outlier degree programs.

There is no study that demonstrates anything about a "person".

You can, however, look up demographic data and group it by all kinds of categories, including economic outcomes and where this group of people got thier degree vs some other group of people. Those studies have been done and even done as you describe them with the caveat that they are analizing a group of people and not a "person". Generally, how much you earn will probably be more influenced by where you end up working than where you got your degree. For example, take 1000 Wyoming business school graduates and have half of them start business in Wyoming and half of them start businesses in California...one of those groups will have generated more money than the other even when you normalize for cost of living.

Ultimately, for Wyoming, if you want to come here and get an education in some field and then make a move to an area where your chosen industry is doing well...then you probably aren't hurting yourself by getting your degree at UW. Unfortunately for Wyoming, this doesn't really help the state overall that much as we end up exporting talent and other states get the young professionals that wind up creating familys, revenue streams and tax bases that just aren't possible here.

A university education continues to be one of the biggest predictors of lifetime earnings even while the perception of that value is at an all-time low. That perception harms schools like Wyoming that are not the best of the best disproportionately. When the percieved value of a college education drops, it does not hurt programs that are recognized as nationally excellent. It hurts the rest.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

There is no study that demonstrates anything about a "person".

You can, however, look up demographic data and group it by all kinds of categories, including economic outcomes and where this group of people got thier degree vs some other group of people. Those studies have been done and even done as you describe them with the caveat that they are analizing a group of people and not a "person". Generally, how much you earn will probably be more influenced by where you end up working than where you got your degree. For example, take 1000 Wyoming business school graduates and have half of them start business in Wyoming and half of them start businesses in California...one of those groups will have generated more money than the other even when you normalize for cost of living.

Ultimately, for Wyoming, if you want to come here and get an education in some field and then make a move to an area where your chosen industry is doing well...then you probably aren't hurting yourself by getting your degree at UW. Unfortunately for Wyoming, this doesn't really help the state overall that much as we end up exporting talent and other states get the young professionals that wind up creating familys, revenue streams and tax bases that just aren't possible here.

A university education continues to be one of the biggest predictors of lifetime earnings even while the perception of that value is at an all-time low. That perception harms schools like Wyoming that are not the best of the best disproportionately. When the percieved value of a college education drops, it does not hurt programs that are recognized as nationally excellent. It hurts the rest.

The claim was in the field being from UW was a massive massive disadvantage.

Without data that is an opinion.

Unless you have data that suggests a degree from UW is worth less than say okie lite, k state or other, then I'm sticking with opinion.

 

[307bball]

The claim was in the field being from UW was a massive massive disadvantage.

Without data that is an opinion.

Unless you have data that suggests a degree from UW is worth less than say okie lite, k state or other, then I'm sticking with opinion.

If you are completely agnostic about where (geographically) you want to end up...then it would surprise me greatly if it was much of a disadvantage at all. I would caveat that with the fact that firms who recruit graduates do actually make a difference here. It is not as easy to be visible to firms as a graduate from UW as it is for a graduate from say Utah or CU even...much less a UCLA. That is simply a function of where firms are located and not a commentary on the quality of the education.

I think we are missing the forest for the trees here...The tree that you (and evidently the other poster) are focussing on is what degree is most valuble. For the group of people who get jobs, I don't think there is any difference whatsoever. I will keep that assumption until i'm shown data that suggests otherwise. It gets murkier when you look at overall graduates...this group includes degree-holders who are struggling to get jobs or are taking work outside thier degree field out of desperation.

The ratio of degree-holders who find work in thier chosen field to the rest is ultimately what a lot of these statistics end up measuring. If I'm a graduate of any university but I'm trying to live somewhere specific that may not have great job opportunities in my chosen field....it is more likely that I will end up under or un-employed. I think we over-index on quality of school when you look at this stuff....the stronger signal is job market where the graduates of a particular University are looking for work.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

If you are completely agnostic about where (geographically) you want to end up...then it would surprise me greatly if it was much of a disadvantage at all. I would caveat that with the fact that firms who recruit graduates do actually make a difference here. It is not as easy to be visible to firms as a graduate from UW as it is for a graduate from say Utah or CU even...much less a UCLA. That is simply a function of where firms are located and not a commentary on the quality of the education.

I think we are missing the forest for the trees here...The tree that you (and evidently the other poster) are focussing on is what degree is most valuble. For the group of people who get jobs, I don't think there is any difference whatsoever. I will keep that assumption until i'm shown data that suggests otherwise. It gets murkier when you look at overall graduates...this group includes degree-holders who are struggling to get jobs or are taking work outside thier degree field out of desperation.

The ratio of degree-holders who find work in thier chosen field to the rest is ultimately what a lot of these statistics end up measuring. If I'm a graduate of any university but I'm trying to live somewhere specific that may not have great job opportunities in my chosen field....it is more likely that I will end up under or un-employed. I think we over-index on quality of school when you look at this stuff....the stronger signal is job market where the graduates of a particular University are looking for work.

Go back and re-read the claims. A UW degree puts you at a disadvantage relative to the same degree from other universities. No data to back that b.s. claim up.

Your discussion of job location, overall struggles of higher education, etc. are a separate discussion. I don't think it's really that debatable that geography will dictate wages. However, the claim was within a market, UW degree is disadvantaged comparatively. Of course that's nonsense.

The rest? Yeah, academia is facing a lot of hurdles. Higher education has allowed itself to slip down the slope of irrelevance. I predict industry will increasingly provide their own training further diminishing the importance of higher education except for some specialized fields (medicine for example) and things like history or social science.