jcintherock
Well-known member
....product that Schroyer's puts out on the floor!!!
Can't see any reasonable way to fix it either.
Bad...bad deal.
Peace
Can't see any reasonable way to fix it either.
Bad...bad deal.
Peace
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That is a bad.....
- Thread starter jcintherock
- Start date
bladerunnr
Well-known member
I think I found a cure for my insomnia......
jcintherock
Well-known member
wishful thinking....
This shit depresses me...
Peace
This shit depresses me...
Peace
McPeachy
Well-known member
superpoke said:
Because, he sucked ass. And sucked all the air out of the program, prior to Heath being a glimmer in Tom's eye. Don't forget his terrific scholarship loss (etc) for not maintaining a simple 2.0 team GPA! And most importantly, don't have selective memory!
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Heath is better than BuckyMac or vice-versa. They both obviously have verying degrees of suckiness.
Averages don't really mean much (although BM actually averaged 17.44 wins per season...pathetic). The present is all that matters, not the past (and this stand for Heath as well).
2003 - 2004 11 & 16, 4 & 10
2004 - 2005 15 & 13, 7 & 7
2005 - 2006 14 & 18, 5 & 11
2006 - 2007 17 & 15, 7 & 9
So, spinning averages for the demise of Cowboy basketball (under the leadership of BM) he went and averaged 14+ wins and 15+ losses total, and 5+ wins and 9+ losses in the MWC per season his last 4 seasons.
As a fan / booster / supporter of UW athletics, I deserve 20 win basketball seasons as the norm, not exception. Anything less, sucks. Mediocre 18 win seasons suck. Those are my standards, and that is why Buckymac needed to go. Well, that and the discipline & grades issues. Does that mean Heath should go as well...you can come to your own conclusions, but I bet you know mine now!
laxwyo
Well-known member
I would like to beat BYU one of these years, in either football or basketball. I just don't think it will happen in hoops anytime soon. The losses are piling up and they are of the ugly variety. If we can't beat airforce on the road, then what happens when we go to provo, the pit, etc. Just getting worse. The last happy moment I had watching our BB team was watching Justin Williams triple double. Other than that, nothing comes to mind. Why should I drive to laramie to watch this crap?
I would argue that this team is worse than Joby's teams. I can't imagine what the attendance is going to be from here on out. or next year, for that matter. Everyone I talk to has no intention of attending any more games and most are not planning to renew for next year.
Your points are well taken in regard to the scholarship loss etc., I want 20 win seasons as well, everybody does, but i'd take 17-15, 7-9 in conference and a trip to the mwc championship game and to atleast have a shot over what we have now anyday, are those my expectations absolutely not, they are much higher, but if memory serves me correctly are nonconference schedule was also a little more competitve a few years ago. I get that your not standing up for schroyer, when i look at this team, even with its lack of shooting ability, we should still have won a lot more ball games, all excuses aside! maybe thats something we can agree on?
Never understood why the loss of 1 scholarship is still being held up like it really hurt anything.
During that same time how many scholarships were being used by players who had to sit out because they were transfers.
Didn't Sylla keep a scholarship unavailable while sitting out and while eligible now ,what exactly is his worth?
What about Luster? He has a few decent games but wouldn't a point guard that would have given the Cowboys two that could play have been better? Instead of one playing entire games and one sitting out the season due to transfer rules.
What about Djbril ? Is what he contributed after sitting a year worth not having use of that scholarship suring that time. And Also Diakte<sp> who was sitting out the same time.
I am not sayiong losing a scholarship isn't bad but it was ! scholarship for ! year. The reason it looked bad was we were down to 11 scholarships but after having 2 sitting out we had 9 avilable slots.
Its three years in and time to stop trying to blame McLain.Heath has his own roster now and with the exception of Derm no McLain players to blame for not buying in,or not being good citizens or whatever other bullshit Schroyer sold. What's he selling now ?
During that same time how many scholarships were being used by players who had to sit out because they were transfers.
Didn't Sylla keep a scholarship unavailable while sitting out and while eligible now ,what exactly is his worth?
What about Luster? He has a few decent games but wouldn't a point guard that would have given the Cowboys two that could play have been better? Instead of one playing entire games and one sitting out the season due to transfer rules.
What about Djbril ? Is what he contributed after sitting a year worth not having use of that scholarship suring that time. And Also Diakte<sp> who was sitting out the same time.
I am not sayiong losing a scholarship isn't bad but it was ! scholarship for ! year. The reason it looked bad was we were down to 11 scholarships but after having 2 sitting out we had 9 avilable slots.
Its three years in and time to stop trying to blame McLain.Heath has his own roster now and with the exception of Derm no McLain players to blame for not buying in,or not being good citizens or whatever other bullshit Schroyer sold. What's he selling now ?
NowherePoke
Well-known member
PL_Julian said:
Heath was a terrible hire at the time and he is even worse now. The 07-08 team was the worst Wyoming team in 30 years and this one is even worse.
Having said that, the real issue with McClain is not the one scholarship (as you say, totally irrelevant, he left behind plenty of talent). Rather, the issue is that he blew a tremendous opportunity.
Starting in in 97-98 (Shyatt's year), the program had a very nice run. Shyatt won 19 games and had a Top 40 RPI (actually the highest RPI we have had over the last 20 years, should have earned a bid). McClain then won 18, 19, 21 (co-MWC title), 22 (MWC title, NCAA win), 21 (3rd in MWC, but lost Bailey for the season, could have had 3 consecutive MWC titles).
The program averaged over 10k in attendance in 02-03 and was a Bailey injury away from a 3rd consecutive MWC title. Shyatt set the table nicely, but McClain took it and ran with it and accomplished some great things. Then....he f'd up (pardon the expression). The cause of it is debatable, but it was clear that recruiting dropped significantly. The 02 and 03 classes were a joke and those should have been his best classes as the program was it's peak, with big attendance, and soon to be available playing time.
IMO, he was job hunting and when he didn't land the big job, he wasn't prepared recruiting wise and the negative recruiting ("don't sign with him, he will just leave anyway") of opponents had a big impact as well. It should also be noted that he had some staff changes that probably hurt him.
Plenty of blame lies with Barta and Burman as well obviously.
It was a huge blown opportunity.
Beyond that, his final teams were very difficult to watch. Huge embarrassing blow-out losses at home to Utah, last in the league in A/TO ratio, etc.
He brought in some guys that gave the program a very bad name locally (*cough* Steve Leven *cough*).
Anyway, not sure why I felt the need to go into McClain's drawbacks, but just wanted to point out again why there is such bitterness towards McClain. He did recruit Brandon though, so we have to give him credit for that!
Anyway, the bottom line is that Schroyer and Burman should both be fired immediately. The attempts by Schroyer and some posters to blame McClain for everything are lame. That much is clear.
McClain didn't leave a great program, but Heath's failures are completely his own.
This is a classic case of cronyism. Rewarding friends with high paying (relatively), plum jobs, in place of more qualified candidates.
I wanted McClain to be fired and I stick by that (for reasons listed above), but I have nothing personally against Steve.
I now have something personal against Heath and Tom. I have cared deeply about Men's Basketball at the University of Wyoming for nearly 25 years. I spent many a winter evening as an adolescent/teen pacing around my bedroom listening to games on the radio, spent more time in the AA than I did studying while at UW, and have made every effort to follow the program since. I hope Tom and Heath at least feel a little remorse for what they have done to a program that many of us care so deeply about.
Sorry for the rant.
NoWhere,
I can respect and appreciate each of your reasons and they are sound.
I had no problem with the program looking for a new direction and if that meant firing McLain,so be it.It's the nature of the game.Never felt anything negative for the decision.
I thought the way it was done by Burman and his subsequent hire was the problem. There was little doubt that the hire was not going to turn Wyoming around and Schroyer confirmed that felling by the day.
I was just pointing out that to say the scholarship that was lost did the damage that some try and portray is smoke and mirrors because we had more scholarships sitting out and the investment didn't pay dividends. And also that Schroyer played a propaganda game for three years to hide his incompetence.
this year he will sell that injuried were to blame but the team wasn't good before the injuries,they are just worse now.
And since Schroyer was hired those that said anyone who wasn't for him was a Mclain apologist .I have been around basketball to many years for that to be my agenda. Me liking McLain personally has nothing to do with my understanding that he was getting the job done on the court and the logical step was to replace him.
So to be clear I wasn't defending mcLain ,just pointing out that Schroyer is fulashit :lol:
I can respect and appreciate each of your reasons and they are sound.
I had no problem with the program looking for a new direction and if that meant firing McLain,so be it.It's the nature of the game.Never felt anything negative for the decision.
I thought the way it was done by Burman and his subsequent hire was the problem. There was little doubt that the hire was not going to turn Wyoming around and Schroyer confirmed that felling by the day.
I was just pointing out that to say the scholarship that was lost did the damage that some try and portray is smoke and mirrors because we had more scholarships sitting out and the investment didn't pay dividends. And also that Schroyer played a propaganda game for three years to hide his incompetence.
this year he will sell that injuried were to blame but the team wasn't good before the injuries,they are just worse now.
And since Schroyer was hired those that said anyone who wasn't for him was a Mclain apologist .I have been around basketball to many years for that to be my agenda. Me liking McLain personally has nothing to do with my understanding that he was getting the job done on the court and the logical step was to replace him.
So to be clear I wasn't defending mcLain ,just pointing out that Schroyer is fulashit :lol:
NowherePoke
Well-known member
PL_Julian said:
You are absolutely right PL.
I have been torn. I was initially very critical of the Schroyer hire, but then I felt like I should back off somewhat because I wanted the program to be successful regardless of the coach.
I just want the program to start winning again and the fans to come back.
Hope things are going well for Brandon (still in Israel?).
Brandon is good. He is learning alot about the professional level of basketball. Oh yes he is still in Tel Aviv and loves it.
Also Brad,Sean,Tyson,and Joe are also doing well overseas as well as Daaron Brown..
I took tried to give Schroyer a chance but it was difficult since I have talked to most of the players in depth and knew what the emotional state of the team was ad started looking at the wy things were done. The more I looked the less sense it made from a coaching perspective.The pettiness that Schroyer displays towrads players that he didn't recruit was so very dumb.
I catch everygame i can and am still in contact with some of the guys..I also try not to post much about Schroyer as I said it all last year and was accused of being biased..I find no pleasure in those things coming to light now and hope that Burman does whatever it takes to get this turned around..Wyoming Basketball deserves better
Also Brad,Sean,Tyson,and Joe are also doing well overseas as well as Daaron Brown..
I took tried to give Schroyer a chance but it was difficult since I have talked to most of the players in depth and knew what the emotional state of the team was ad started looking at the wy things were done. The more I looked the less sense it made from a coaching perspective.The pettiness that Schroyer displays towrads players that he didn't recruit was so very dumb.
I catch everygame i can and am still in contact with some of the guys..I also try not to post much about Schroyer as I said it all last year and was accused of being biased..I find no pleasure in those things coming to light now and hope that Burman does whatever it takes to get this turned around..Wyoming Basketball deserves better
Dread_Pirate_Cowboy
Well-known member
cheypoke said:
Without a doubt this team is worse than any of Joby's teams and any of McClain's teams. Can't think of a single time in either era where I felt we were a major underdog in Fort Collins. I'm not buying any more Wyoming Mining Association products until Shroyer is gone. That goes for all our other sponsors too.
