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Start Nick Smith vs SJSU

Alright, now in retrospect, does anybody think there's even a tiny chance we move the ball well enough with Smith to have won this game?

I'm going to say no. We would've lost.
 
Asmodeanreborn said:
Alright, now in retrospect, does anybody think there's even a tiny chance we move the ball well enough with Smith to have won this game?

I'm going to say no. We would've lost.
Click to expand...

It would have been 3 and out all day. The defense would have worn out missing Ghaifan and Granderson and we would have lost. So many drives saved by Chambers legs.
 
Asmodeanreborn said:
Alright, now in retrospect, does anybody think there's even a tiny chance we move the ball well enough with Smith to have won this game?

I'm going to say no. We would've lost.
Click to expand...
Vigen tried his darndest to lose this one, but Nico, Sean and Jevon are too good.
 
This program owes it to the seniors and fans to try to win every game. Plus with a bowl Chambers gets an additional three weeks of practice. I understand that even if we trip up, Chambers will play out the year. I'm all for that as well.
 
Just to be clear and in the context of the original post....the idea was to start Smith using the new Chambers style offense instead of staying with TVW in the dry unsuccessful pro style offense. All this if they were really going to save the redshirt and still try to win. The post was never intended to gauge Chambers vs Smith.

Having said that....today's game showed how well our line is blocking for our run....giving our QB and backs room to make plays. It's not crappy blocking with our guys overcoming it with speed or athleticism. Smith has demonstrated that he can run that offense with results. If he was prepped for it....I could seriously see him having success as well.....the new offense doesn't ask him to be a pocket passer....it asks him to be a runner and a decoy....he certainly has the speed. There was no evidence in the game today that showed Nick couldn't have succeeded as a running QB......he didn't play. All in all....it appears that we are going to try and win out.....which I like. Win now and see if we can change this nightmare into a cool story.
 
Where is this new style of offense you guys are taking about? Look at the tapes from earlier in the season and you will see that the playcalling and scheme are not that different. The difference between then and now, in my opinion, are mainly attributable to three things:

1. Chambers is a threat to run and TVW was not.
2. The last two teams we have played may be the worst we have played all season.
3. The offensive line looks like it has figured something out.

One more thing... The Vigen bashing is starting to seem personal. Today's game was two lost fumbles from being an absolute blowout instead of just a regular beat down. Vigen's game plan today worked great. That should be aknowledged even if you have frustrations about the first half of the season.
 
307bball said:
Where is this new style of offense you guys are taking about?
1. Chambers is a threat to run and TVW was not.
Click to expand...

That point alone changes literally everything. The defense can no longer 100% focus in on the runningback on first down.
 
307bball said:
Where is this new style of offense you guys are taking about? Look at the tapes from earlier in the season and you will see that the playcalling and scheme are not that different. The difference between then and now, in my opinion, are mainly attributable to three things:

1. Chambers is a threat to run and TVW was not.
2. The last two teams we have played may be the worst we have played all season.
3. The offensive line looks like it has figured something out.

One more thing... The Vigen bashing is starting to seem personal. Today's game was two lost fumbles from being an absolute blowout instead of just a regular beat down. Vigen's game plan today worked great. That should be aknowledged even if you have frustrations about the first half of the season.
Click to expand...
they were down one possession in the 4th
 
307bball said:
Where is this new style of offense you guys are taking about? Look at the tapes from earlier in the season and you will see that the playcalling and scheme are not that different. The difference between then and now, in my opinion, are mainly attributable to three things:

1. Chambers is a threat to run and TVW was not.
2. The last two teams we have played may be the worst we have played all season.
3. The offensive line looks like it has figured something out.

One more thing... The Vigen bashing is starting to seem personal. Today's game was two lost fumbles from being an absolute blowout instead of just a regular beat down. Vigen's game plan today worked great. That should be aknowledged even if you have frustrations about the first half of the season.
Click to expand...

The Vigen bashing is personal at this point. He wasted a top 10 NFL draft pick's final season, and has been consistently the main man in charge of a offense that is almost always in the bottom of the FBS. He needs to go...a blind squirrel finds a nut... And he found a couple against two extremely terrible teams.

A FBS coordinator has to be able to tweak the gameplan to match the talent he has, and he hasn't been able to for the majority of his time in Laramie.

I have serious doubts about the ability to evaluate talent on the offensive side of the ball. We wasted 6 games with Chambers warming the bench. I guarantee we, at a minimum, get the W at Hawaii with Chambers at the helm. I think last season is different if you don't have a slow, vertical running LB filling in for RB when you have Nico riding pine. I think we're going to lose a 6'6" receiver, because he's been targeted only a couple times in the year.

The season is looking up, but we have two tough challenges ahead. AF is always a tough game, and NM could have taken down SUDS tonight. I have faith in Chambers, I'd be really excited for next year with a coordinator that was more qualified.
 
Our offense is completely different than when TVW was in there. We are a total run team now which is much different from the past. Just look at the passing attempts before Chambers and now....it's very significant. We used to be more Boise and now are more Air Force. Our strategy is completely different.
 
LanderPoke said:
307bball said:
Where is this new style of offense you guys are taking about? Look at the tapes from earlier in the season and you will see that the playcalling and scheme are not that different. The difference between then and now, in my opinion, are mainly attributable to three things:

1. Chambers is a threat to run and TVW was not.
2. The last two teams we have played may be the worst we have played all season.
3. The offensive line looks like it has figured something out.

One more thing... The Vigen bashing is starting to seem personal. Today's game was two lost fumbles from being an absolute blowout instead of just a regular beat down. Vigen's game plan today worked great. That should be aknowledged even if you have frustrations about the first half of the season.
Click to expand...
they were down one possession in the 4th
Click to expand...

If you lose the turnover battle... Lopsided games look closer than they are. Make no mistake. Wyoming was the much better team today... Last I checked offensive coordinators do not call plays involving fumbles.
 
PokeNer said:
307bball said:
Where is this new style of offense you guys are taking about? Look at the tapes from earlier in the season and you will see that the playcalling and scheme are not that different. The difference between then and now, in my opinion, are mainly attributable to three things:

1. Chambers is a threat to run and TVW was not.
2. The last two teams we have played may be the worst we have played all season.
3. The offensive line looks like it has figured something out.

One more thing... The Vigen bashing is starting to seem personal. Today's game was two lost fumbles from being an absolute blowout instead of just a regular beat down. Vigen's game plan today worked great. That should be aknowledged even if you have frustrations about the first half of the season.
Click to expand...

The Vigen bashing is personal at this point. He wasted a top 10 NFL draft pick's final season, and has been consistently the main man in charge of a offense that is almost always in the bottom of the FBS. He needs to go...a blind squirrel finds a nut... And he found a couple against two extremely terrible teams.

A FBS coordinator has to be able to tweak the gameplan to match the talent he has, and he hasn't been able to for the majority of his time in Laramie.

I have serious doubts about the ability to evaluate talent on the offensive side of the ball. We wasted 6 games with Chambers warming the bench. I guarantee we, at a minimum, get the W at Hawaii with Chambers at the helm. I think last season is different if you don't have a slow, vertical running LB filling in for RB when you have Nico riding pine. I think we're going to lose a 6'6" receiver, because he's been targeted only a couple times in the year.

The season is looking up, but we have two tough challenges ahead. AF is always a tough game, and NM could have taken down SUDS tonight. I have faith in Chambers, I'd be really excited for next year with a coordinator that was more qualified.
Click to expand...

I actually pretty much agree with 90% of your assessment... Please don't confuse me with a Vigen apologist. Where we differ (I think) is that after back to back successful game plans, there is not only no aknowledgement of the planning/preperation of said game plan, the conciet seems to be what? Vigen is still terrible and by replacing one player it is all better? If he's responsible when we suck he damned well better be responsible when we don't. It can't be all his fault when things are going badly and all the players efforts when there is success.

And for my money... Every wide receiver in this program could leave after this year for as far as I'm concerned... I've watched greatness at wide receiver in Laramie regardless of qb talent or style of play and none of the current crop could compare to the likes of Bougknight/Montgomery/Harris/.... And so on.
 
Brown and Gold said:
Our offense is completely different than when TVW was in there. We are a total run team now which is much different from the past. Just look at the passing attempts before Chambers and now....it's very significant. We used to be more Boise and now are more Air Force. Our strategy is completely different.
Click to expand...

The running plays are the same.... The passing plays are the same... The only difference is the distribution... Does anybody think Vigen installed a new offense laneway through the season?
 
Judgement period for Vigen is over for this season, imo. I'm glad he can at least gameplan enough to beat FCS teams. Literally, that is the level of these last few games. After all, FCS teams beat both CSU and SJSU and both of those FCS teams had a bunch of offensive output. As or more than we did.

Nothing personal. I just don't believe he can put together an offense that can beat teams above 100. At least not consistently. As long as the MWC remains enriched with a bunch of sub-100 teams, then, yeah, I suppose he is adequate to get us to a low level bowl game. So was Glenn. He just didn't have 6 games on the schedule that were FCS + sub 100 teams.

I'm really glad WYO is winning again. I'd much prefer that to the alternative. However, context is also important. If these last 4 games are justification to keep Vigen in his current role, well, let's hope the entire 5 years is used.
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
Judgement period for Vigen is over for this season, imo. I'm glad he can at least gameplan enough to beat FCS teams. Literally, that is the level of these last few games. After all, FCS teams beat both CSU and SJSU and both of those FCS teams had a bunch of offensive output. As or more than we did.

Nothing personal. I just don't believe he can put together an offense that can beat teams above 100. At least not consistently. As long as the MWC remains enriched with a bunch of sub-100 teams, then, yeah, I suppose he is adequate to get us to a low level bowl game. So was Glenn. He just didn't have 6 games on the schedule that were FCS + sub 100 teams.

I'm really glad WYO is winning again. I'd much prefer that to the alternative. However, context is also important. If these last 4 games are justification to keep Vigen in his current role, well, let's hope the entire 5 years is used.
Click to expand...

Beating teams above 100 consistently is something no Wyoming team has done since when? Tiller? The pessimist in me sees the things that you and others are pointing out (especially after four game losing steaks) and wonders if Wyoming football is destined for peaks of mediocrity for the foreseeable future. The optimist (who comes out after keeping the boot and back to back wins) says that the general trajectory is still upward with the program and we are just witnessing the early building stages of an honest to goodness football program. By that I mean a program that contends for a conference title every year and genuinely could (if the stars align) make a NY6 bowl.
 
The offense can make strides forward similar to the D once 1 element was removed. Standard.

A top 50 D + a top 50 O and we would be similar to a usu and challenge BSU every few years.

Replacing Stanard miraculously turned around a terrible D without drastically changing philosophy. There is really nothing to lose trying the same approach on O.
 
Another thing to hope for is for people to learn...A lepeord may not be able to change his spots but people do not stay the same. Life-long coaches change and adapt or are shoved out of the profession (and maybe Vigen needs shoved out--I don't know). I am totally on board with being critical of Vigen this year and Stanard during the early Bohl years...That does not mean that guys can't learn.

The other thing that I keep perceiving is the thread that, depending on your argument, losing is the coaches fault and winning is the result of the players performance in spite of the coaches...or vice versa. The example that people keep trotting out of Stanard turning into Hazelton being the only thing that changed on defense is just not accurate. Even with some of the names being the same .... Freshman/Soph guys are not the same as Junior/Senior guys....that helps immensely.
 
There are down year coaches and up year coaches. After 5 years, which is what I'm basing my opinion on--not just a snapshot, I think Vigen is an up year coach. On average, he'll have mediocre to poor offenses with an occasional up year. Stanard was likely the same way just didn't last long enough to see his up year.

Coaches pick players. Coaches develop players. Coaches decide who plays. Losing competitive games but having functional units is one thing. Having completely dysfunctional 1 dimensional units is another.

I'm ok with requiring development but we need a down year coach. Most years the O is average to above average with an occasional down year.

There is 0 risk to trying something new and the potential upside is tremendous. The MWC is full of terrible defenses. Building a functional (not elite: functional week in and out) O is not that big of hurdle.

The wins will sort themselves out but we need an O at least un the top 70.
 
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